Jay tea, on re-reading Midderpidge’s list and his subsequent comment, you’re response above makes even less sense. As Midder pointed out, the list of terrorist attacks since Bush took office includes two US consulate bombings and two US embassy bombings. Jay Tea, by your own standards, that makes Bush’s record on preventing “attacks on sovereign American territory” worse than Clinton’s.

Can expect further “refinements” of your argument?

Just for the record, Jay Tea, you should stay away from “going into painful detail.” Painful detail is not your friend.

That’s the truth.

I guess we don’t count actual Americans as “little pieces of America” – you know, like all the Americans killed and injured in Afghanistan and Iraq by terrorist attacks under Bushes wonderful strategy to reduce terrorism.

The larger point still stands. It’s a stretch to include the Cole bombing and African Embassy attacks on Clinton’s record while overlooking the countless terrorist attacks that occur almost daily on American facilities in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The bottom line is that Bush and Clinton have exactly the same record when it comes to domestic terrorist attacks only Bush achieved his record at a far, far greater cost. It’s really that simple.

You guys are just jokes. Complete jokes.

1) Declare that he will not use nuclear weapons.
2) [redacted for stupidity]
3) Threaten to invade a nation that possesses nuclear weapons.

Point 1 is false. but even if it weren’t, I would be okay with that. Nuclear weapons should never be used under any circumstances.

Point 3. Obama never said invade, you’re making that up. Again. Are you referring to the incursions of Pakistani airspace by drones that killed the latest Al Quaeda #2 just a couple of months ago? That one?

Let’s Go All In on Iraq!

THe Bush plan protects us from those who hate us because of our freedoms by trying to take those freedoms away.

THe Bush doctrine says that to keep terrorists from attacking us in the US, we need to put American targets closer to the terrorists so the terrorists won’t bother traveling so far.

Always nice to hear the Lying Moron view of the world. Fortunately there are far fewer people like you than there were 4 years ago.

“You could try it, I guess. But I’m not sure it’s as popular as you think it is…”

Considering your track record on the matter, you probably shouldn’t predict anything more controversial than the sun setting in the evening.

Law and Order is too good for the Wogs. Exterminate the brutes.

I say you go with it.

I want all you right wingers to bring on every last bit of macho puffery, denigration of Democrats fer their dang-nabb’d technicalities, BRING IT ALL ON, only we macho konservativs got the guts to be a buncha incompetent lawbreakin’ boobs to keepusafe..

And lose.

And I’m going to laugh at you while you do.

The new bumper sticker: Democratics in 08: Campaigning for Osama Bin Ladin’s Constitutional Rights!!!

You could try it, I guess. But I’m not sure it’s as popular as you think it is…

The JayTea/Bush doctrine of fighting terrorism is to downplay law enforcement efforts, mock international cooperation, and then to have a hard on about putting bullseyes on US soldiers and shoving them over seas as targets.

This is lie.

By the way…

“Another example: the “wall of separation” between law enforcement and intelligence constructed by Jamie Gorelick, Clinton-era Justice Department official and, inexplicably, 9/11 commissioner.”

There’s a little think called Wikipedia out there.

“This assertion was disputed by former senator Slade Gorton (R-WA), a member of the 9/11 Commission, who said, “nothing Jamie Gorelick wrote had the slightest impact on the Department of Defense or its willingness or ability to share intelligence information with other intelligence agencies.” Gorton also asserted that “the wall” was a long-standing policy that had resulted from the Church committee in the 1970s, and that the policy only prohibits transfer of certain information from prosecutors to the intelligence services and never prohibited information flowing in the opposite direction.”

You are wrong. She didn’t construct the wall, nor did it have any impact on law enforcement.

As I said: I am amazed at how well you folks are at reinforcing my points for me, when I slip up and presume things will be understood without going into painful detail.

And at no point did I say that I favored an exclusively military approach, merely that I thought an exclusively (or even primary) law-enforcement approach was — through experience — a bad idea. Another example: the “wall of separation” between law enforcement and intelligence constructed by Jamie Gorelick, Clinton-era Justice Department official and, inexplicably, 9/11 commissioner. I still want to know who the HELL thought putting her on the panel — and keeping her after her “wall” memo was released — was such a good idea.

J.

This can be done in a manner politically acceptable to the United States, by a patient administration that doesn’t miss opportunities and doesn’t think it can just sit people down and tell them to ‘cut the bullshit.’ For instance we need not abandon Israel, but we do need to divest ourselves of the ‘pro-anything Israel (more specifically the Likud party) does’ line of thinking.

That said, I wonder whether we ought to look at this problem also in terms of how many innocent lives in the target countries are likely to be ruined or seriously impacted negatively, not least because it’s humane and Iraqi lives mean as much as American ones, but also because – logically, to me at least – a high number of innocent dead, maimed or ruined livelihoods creates a blowback that helps to radicalise the youth of the target country. I have a feeling this is so regardless of whether the deaths are caused directly by American invasion or by circumstances that were not a threat before but became so indirectly because of the invasion.

If we take into account the relative messiness of law enforcement vs. military, it seems to me that law enforcement has the upper hand, although that depends heavily on how the military campaign is prosecuted. There is a chasm of difference between neighborhood cordon-and-search ‘arrest everyone named Muhammed or Jamal’ sorts of tactics and the lighter footprint of Gen. Patreaus, before he was Grand Poobah of the whole lodge.

Homer Simpson: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa Simpson: That’s specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn’t work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It’s just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don’t see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

I’ll never understand conservatives, like Jay Tea, who pad out the WAVE OF TERROR during the Clinton administration by throwing in the Cole bombing and the African embassy bombings but then dismiss the post 9-11 spike in terrorism around the world as if it’s irrelevant to Bush’s record or else trumpet it as a resounding evidence of his success. At the same time, they point to the “damned few attacks in the US” since 9-11 and leap to the conclusion that the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq are the reasons for it.

But how many foreign terrorist attacks occurred on US soil between the first world trade center attack and the second? Anyone with any integrity would have to say “damned few” as well. And how many countries did Clinton invade to achieve this record? Zero. If you look at Bush’s tenure, he has so far achieved the same record as Clinton but with an incalculably greater cost.

BTW, under Bill Clinton, we had 2 World Trade Centers, a 5 sided Pentagon, 0 hijacked airliners free to wander over the USA, and 1 major port city of New Orleans free of rotting corpses in the streets.

Under courageous Andover cheerleader and TANG hero George W. Bush Jr., we have 0 World Trade Centers, a rebuilt Pentagon, 4 airliners crashed into targets, and the Chertoff / Brown recovery of New Orleans.

I’ll gladly choose the Clinton record over you pathetic, useless, cowardly right wing douchebags any time you want.

And Save, tapping phones and running traces are both law enforcement techniques. They work and they work even better when we’re applying them in a lawful, Constitutional manner.