Sen. Obama’s great uncle fought in WWII and helped to liberate a Nazi prison camp, specifically Buchenwald. Sen. Obama mistakenly said Auschwitz. The facts of the matter do not change. Obama’s uncle was part of the greatest generation that saved the world. For this, the RNC and John McCain say attack. Look, this is the party who thinks people’s personal faith is just another campaign slogan, but jeez.
You know, there’s a surefire way Obama can insulate himself from these attacks. It’s called “get it right the first time.”
This isn’t rocket science. If Obama’s great-uncle did such things, then it’s an insult to his memory to mangle the facts of his accomplishments.
In these days, the term “lie” has been devalued. Now it applies to any misstatement, any slip of the tongue, any sincere belief that is later contradicted by new information, anything that is not 100% factual and accurate the instant it is uttered.
The fact is, Obama publicly said that his uncle helped liberate Auschwitz. That was instantly and patently false to anyone with a smattering of knowledge — Obama has no uncles on his mother’s side, and his father’s brothers would not likely have been members of the US armed forces in World War II. Further, no Americans liberated Auschwitz — it, like all the death camps in Poland, were taken by Red Army. So there are two aspects of Obama’s statement that, by the current standards, constitute “lies.”
No, I don’t call them lies. To me, a “lie” requires a knowledge that the facts stated are false and there is an intent to deceive. But it is not anyone else’s responsibility to go around and explain what Obama meant — that it was not his uncle, but his great-uncle, and the camp was not Auschwitz, but one that was part of Buchenwald. It’s his job to get it right the first time.
I have a similar problem when I start writing about the Middle East. I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve typed “Iraq” for “Iran” or vice versa. I usually respond by saying that it is cosmically unjust that two nations should exist, side by side, with names that differ by only a single letter — and that one comes at the end. But the fact remains that I know I make that mistake, I know that I need to watch out for it, I know that I’ve made it numerous times in the past, and I simply keep doing it every few weeks or so. My readers usually point it out to me (if it’s a fan, with a bit of teasing; if it’s a troll, with considerable derision), and I end up wincing and apologizing, but I never blame them for pointing out my mistake. I screwed it up, no one made me screw it up, and I’m not going to complain at being caught screwing up or deride people for reacting to what I said, not what I meant.
And I’m just a blogger. I’m not The Next And Greatest President Of The United States, The Man Who Makes Us All Hopey And Changeful. I’m a nobody from nowhere, not an Ivy League lawyer married to another Ivy League lawyer. If I can own up to my own misstatements (or, at least, not grouse when others catching me making mistakes), why can’t Obama?
Simple answer: he’s a damned rookie. The man needs seasoning. He’s no way in hell ready to be president. He needs to spend a few years NOT in government or academia and get a feel for how things work in the real world.
Yeah, McCain could, too. But his military service — over 20 years in the military — is quantitatively different from a law professor, community activist, state legislator, and less than one full term in the US Senate. Plus, his wife seems to have a fairly decent head for business — they’ve kept their finances separate all through their marriage — and she can at least give him some perspective on the private sector. Mrs. Obama’s experiences seem to boil down to “here’s how we spent that earmark you scored my employer.”
J.
You know you’ve got a blog of your own, right? Anyhow, Sen. Obama corrected himself. That’s more than I can say than the McCain camp’s regular claim that he didn’t put forward positions that he’s been caught on camera with or put down in legislation.
That said, I think it’s funny how one of the blogs who to this day is convinced that President Bush was 100% truthful in selling this war and its lack of progress or results is in high dudgeon over a slip of the tongue from Sen. Obama. Some of us would say you’re intellectually dishonest. I’d also point out that it is the right who has defined down lie to the point of being meaningless.
Bush and Cheney weren’t rookies. They both had major positions in government and business, and sure, Bush was a failure at that business, but the two of them proceeded to squeak into the White House and screw up royally. John McCain’s been in government for a quarter century, and it doesn’t mean diddly as an indicator of future performance.
What does matter is the underlying principle and system of governance they believe in. McCain seeks to stay the course with Bush’s policy. Sen. Obama thinks we should do what’s right and set America back on course.
Ah, I’ll take the fresh faced rookie over the seasoned veteran who wants to lead us further off the cliff anyday.
But Obama got the name of the Nazi camp wrong. OH NOES!!!!!
I think you might want to compare this misstep to the repeated confusion of his opponent John McCain who doesn’t seem able to keep the various factions in Iraq straight (or even demonstrate any kind of understanding of who’s who) and yet bases a large part of his campaign platform on a continuous wasteful and bloody occupation of the country. That’s a current war and not a mistake in historic perspective. And it ain’t mixing up a letter. The only time he’s confused Iran is when he tries to blame them for Sunni violence or other things they have no connection to.
And you want to talk about their wives? Interesting. McCain’s wife’s finances bought his career.
You know you’ve got a blog of your own, right?
He gets more readers over here.
Bush and Cheney weren’t rookies.
OK, but even if Bush wasn’t, technically, a rookie, he’s a disinterested dumbass. Which counts.
This isn’t rocket science. If Obama’s great-uncle did such things, then it’s an insult to his memory to mangle the facts of his accomplishments.
Yes, if only Obama dressed up in a military uniform and pretended to actually have served in combat you’d be moist over his commander-in-chief abilities as we speak.
But yeah, Obama’s a rookie. He seriously needs to spend some time being a raging alcoholic and running a few businesses in the ground before he’s ready to be leader of the free world.
Plus, his wife seems to have a fairly decent head for business — they’ve kept their finances separate all through their marriage — and she can at least give him some perspective on the private sector.
Oh, I agree, being born to an Anheuser-Busch distributing magnate was a wicked smart business decision. Did she and Paris Hilton get their MBA’s together?
Or were you referring merely to the charity organization she founded, you know, the one she robbed to get her drug fix from?
But that Michelle… she’s so not first lady material.
I think it’s pretty absurd that they jumped on this as an example of some kind of “lie.” He made one mistake– he used the wrong concentration camp name.
The criticism of the “great uncle” part is quite silly because that is probably what Obama called him– uncle so-and-so. (I think that’s rather common, to shorten a title like great aunt or uncle to just aunt or uncle so-and-so?) Did his great uncle serve in WW2 and help liberate a concentration camp? Yes. Did Obama make a mistake and use the wrong camp name? Yes. Does that change the story or what his uncle experienced? No.
The only lie revealed in this “scandal” is that McCain is NOT going to run a clean campaign. (duh)
“In these days, the term “lie” has been devalued. Now it applies to any misstatement, any slip of the tongue, any sincere belief that is later contradicted by new information, anything that is not 100% factual and accurate the instant it is uttered.”
This is a load of shit. The word ‘lie’ is almost never used in politics, even when it is clearly the case.
“Simple answer: he’s a damned rookie.”
And yet McCain with all of his experience has made similar mistakes during the campaign as well. How do you explain this?
If the McSame republicans think this is going to get them anywhere, they had better guess again. For one thing that’s the second overreaction by McCain and his camp, which reveals lack of temperament and character needed to be allowed to be in charge of the most power military on earth.
Furthermore, the baseless and convoluted logic McSame and McBush use for opposing the Webb GI Bill shows a total disregard for those who are now serving.
Before Mr Arrogant lectures Obama again on not questioning his commitment to our troops, he best get his facts straight. A CBO study, of which McSame and Bush cherry-pick in a lame attempt to justify their position also states that increased educational benefits will result in an increase in recruiting by the same amount as the decrease in re-enlistment (16%).
Finally, Obama did have a great uncle who was part of liberating another concentration camp (Buschenwald) and error was in name only, far from a misrepresentation. But if this is all that these arrogant assholes have to take to the voters, which is apparently so by their obvious overreaction, they will be finding themselves having plenty of free time to think about it after January.
I think it would be great if Obama would raise the dead spectres of 2000 and promise “to restore honor and integrity to the White House.” Seeing as how the current president completely lied about that one. In yet another way, McCain is the heir of Bush. No integrity. I think he sold his honor somewhere. Maybe to Hagee for an endorsement and a half full box of Chicklets.
“I think he sold his honor somewhere. Maybe to Hagee for an endorsement and a half full box of Chicklets.“
No, ‘Pidge, it was doughnuts. With sprinkles.
“You know, there’s a surefire way Obama can insulate himself from these attacks. It’s called ‘get it right the first time.’”
ROFLMAO! Seriously, Jay Tea? This is your advice? From the guy more wrong out of the gate, on more facts, more often than anyone on the internets? Wow.
“If I can own up to my own misstatements (or, at least, not grouse when others catching me making mistakes) …”
Oh god, please stop, you’re killing me …
“He gets more readers over here.”
LOL. The hits keep coming … I just love threads when Jay Tea shows up … always laughs all the way around!
“ROFLMAO! Seriously, Jay Tea? This is your advice? From the guy more wrong out of the gate, on more facts, more often than anyone on the internets? Wow.”
I think that’s overstating things. For instance, Jay is usually more wrong than Jay Tea. So is… so is… uhhhh. Let me get back to you.
Obama back in 2002:
Obviously, Obama’s story has been changing about who did what:
Grandfather, Uncle, Great-Uncle
Heard stories from fellow troops about Auschwitz (impossible)
Liberated Auschwitz (impossible)
Liberated Buchenwald
So it takes him 6 years to finally gets the story right?
Link didn’t work:
Barack Obama’s Iraq Speech from 2002
Bush back in 2002: “Saddam has weapons of mass destruction.”
Al Gore, John Edwards, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, etc. back in 2002: “Saddam has weapons of mass destruction.”
Now that we’ve deflected from the point, we can return to Obama repeatedly demonstrating that he can’t get his own family history correct with the help of common historical knowledge. But I’m sure he will be able to keep international intelligence briefings straight. After all, they’re much easier than knowing the difference between Poland and Germany.
Part of the problem is that the Russian contribution to WWII is completely neglected by most Americans. 2 out of every 3 German soldiers that were killed in combat were killed on the Eastern Front fighting the Russians. Roosevelt and Churchill knew there was no secret method to beat the German army, which was the most advanced fighting force at the time – so so army would have to suffer shockingly high losses. They decided to let the Russians bear the cost.
Sure, the Americans engaged in various North Africa theaters and around Italy, but until the Normandy invasion, 3 years after the U.S. declared war, it was the Russians the beat the German army. But if you suggest such a thing, you get a bunch of tiresome “Greatest Generation” types who insist it was their sacrifice that saved Europe (except that whole Eastern part).
George W. Bush: “We do not torture.”
Call it what it is, JWG: a L-I-E.
After all, they’re much easier than knowing the difference between Poland and Germany.
Last I checked Obama isn’t the candidate repeatedly saying the wrong names of the leaders of Iran, sport.
You’re right — he just repeatedly gets confused over which countries need Arab linguists.
…or how many states make up the UNITED STATES
or what city he’s in
or how many people died in a tornado…
Whoops, except there actually are Arabic translators in Afghanistan and even the original source of that “gaffe” story conceded Obama’s point was correct. Also, it’s not the Democrats firing competent Arabic translators for superficial reasons.
But yes, I’ll admit that was a really nice try, even if it wasn’t exactly the same as forgetting the difference between Sunni and Shiite. So are we playing this all day, or are you ready to admit you just care more about “gotcha” snipes on Obama instead of actually caring about who’s more mentally competent to be commander-in-chief? (Hint: it’s not the guy who does this)
Yes, when the Messiah repeatedly makes an error — it’s a silly “gotcha”. When McCain makes an error — he’s mentally incompetent. That’s why pointing out that Obama doesn’t realize that US troops couldn’t liberate a death camp in Poland is so much fun. But you just keep believing in the Messiah. He’ll save us all.
Bush can lie us into a war that kills hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, creates two million Iraqi refugees, and kills 4 thousand U.S. soldiers (not counting U.S. non-military dead) and JWG snores and idly scratches his belly. But if Obama confuses Treblinka with Birkenau — sound the gaffe alert! To arms! To arms!
JWG, you need a priest or a shrink, not an internet messageboard. Good luck becoming reacquainted with basic morality, buddy.
“When McCain makes an error — he’s mentally incompetent.”
When McCain is arguing that we should attack Iran (Shia) because it is training Al-Qaeda (Sunni), it has a bit more relevance than whether Obama’s relatives liberated Camp A or Camp B, unless Obama is urging us to attack Germany.
JWG
You’re right — he just repeatedly gets confused over which countries need Arab linguists.
At least he knows that you need Arab linguists to translate documents made in Arabic. And he sounds like he wouldn’t fire them if they had Teh Gay…
By the way, who was it that said he was a uniterer, not a dividerer? And that he was going to engage in bipartisan comity once he got electorated? Oh – and something about keeping the lock on a lock box, continuing surpluses, more open governmentalling, and pressuring his Saudi friends to keep the price of oil down?
Smarter brain dead Republican’t propaganda catapultists, please…
“When McCain is arguing that we should attack Iran (Shia) because it is training Al-Qaeda (Sunni), it has a bit more relevance than whether Obama’s relatives liberated Camp A or Camp B …”
Amen.
This part of the claim is a lie.
“This part of the claim is a lie.”
Bomb, bomb, bomb
Bomb, bomb, Iran
McCain’s clever take on Barbara Ann.
“This part of the claim is a lie.”
So, who was singing:
Bomb, bomb bomb
Bomb, bomb Iran
Hint – it was not Brian Wilson
Sorry for the double-post – I thought the first one did not go through
Thinking we might need to bomb Iran’s nuclear facilities is not the same as thinking we need to bomb their (nonexistent) al-Qaeda training camps.
“Thinking we might need to bomb Iran’s nuclear facilities is not the same as thinking we need to bomb their (nonexistent) al-Qaeda training camps.”
Oh, well then…. I guess I missed the club-mix which had “nuclear facilities” in the lyrics. But setting war cry to a pop sixties tune is still a first.
Consider that North Korea killed thousands of American troops in the Korean War, has a near million man army and nuclear weapons – yet we negotiate with them.
Iran’s military has killed few, if any American troops. Iran has sponsored groups such as Hezbollah that have attacked the U.S., but given the poor state of their conventional military, that is the only arrow in their quiver. Oh, and they have no nuclear weapons. But they are the ones facing an American military assault.
“Thinking we might need to bomb Iran’s nuclear facilities is not the same as thinking we need to bomb their (nonexistent) al-Qaeda training camps.”
Unless of course you want to use their non existent al-Qaeda training camps as a pretext for bombing their nuclear facilities, which is exactly what’s at issue with McCain’s consistent “confusion” on the issue.
JWG
Thinking we might need to bomb Iran’s nuclear facilities is not the same as thinking we need to bomb their (nonexistent) al-Qaeda training camps.
JWG
When McCain is arguing that we should attack Iran
This part of the claim is a lie.
Last time I checked, thinking we might need to bomb Iran’s nukular facilities, even though it’s not the same as (those nonexistent people who you claim are) thinking to bomb their [insert straw man here - ooooh, it's the big Al-Qaeda training camps*], would still be considered as arguing we should attack Iran.
But, good job continuing to catapult Republican’t propaganda even though the propaganda being catapulted and your talking point have been shown to be factually lacking, and you’ve just proven yourself to be an amoral shameless lying hypocrite with no grasp of reality.