Oh, yes. I’m sure during the General we’ll never see any ad showing or hear a reference to Wright ever again.

Jay: The fact of the matter is, aside from the Wright flap, what kind of media examination have seen of Obama’s actual record? None from what I can see. … the coverage of Obama is similar to that of what McCain was getting in 2000. Very positive.

So do you think a fair examination of his actual record would be actually be a bad thing for Obama?

Jay, apology accepted. The “Are you high?” comment was really more of a joke than anything, something to convey my disbelief and not intended as a real critique. Sorry if it came across otherwise.

McCain, obviously, also voted for the war, but Hillary’s war vote is more interesting because she’s a member of the party that featured more anti-war sentiment. So she gets more attention and flak for it even though they were both dead wrong.

People who look to the media to get a full story are deluding themselves. The problem is that an educated electorate takes effort on the part of the electorate, and too many refuse to make that effort.

Yes. You’re in favor of those.

But you’re right. My response could have been better so I apologize. I can’t give specific examples, but let’s just say that the Hillary pile-on for the last several weeks has been gold for Obama. The Wright story? Wright who? That’s over and done with. I mean, what other biases are you talking about?

The fact of the matter is, aside from the Wright flap, what kind of media examination have seen of Obama’s actual record? None from what I can see. I mean, I know what his record is as do others here because we’re more informed, but what the does the general public know about Obama other than that he draws enthusiastic crowds and is a great public speaker and is raising a lot of money?

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t buy into the whole “liberal media” trope. But the coverage of Obama is similar to that of what McCain was getting in 2000. Very positive. The 6 weeks of Wright and Georgie boy don’t make up for the months of fawning.

Jay: Oh please. A bump in the road. Obama has been a media darling and anybody who says otherwise is either an idiot or in serious denial.

Hmm… excellent argument, Jay. I particularly like the use of several pertinent examples to demonstrate how I am wrong, and an idiot and/or in serious denial. A six-week campaign by the media on the Rev. Wright “issue”, punctuated by an absolutely abhorrent debate with Stephanopoulos et al., is just “a bump in the road.”

FWIW, I’ve always thought that you were more reasonable than some of the other conservative posters on this site, despite out lack of common ground. However, in this thread you’ve managed to sound like a total asshole. Fuck off.

Sincerely,
An Idiot in Total Denial

Well Sean I said it was perhaps the most important issue, but it’s not the only one.

Add to that list:

Taxes, terrorism, the Iraq War, etc.

Frankly, this is a time when I am going to seriously hold my nose when I vote. I’m not all giddy about a McCain Presidency. The guy I am looking forward to seeing a few years down the road run for President is Bobby Jindal. And — GASP!!! — he’s a minority!! Oh wait. I guess I couldn’t vote for him. He has brown skin and EL has informed everybody that I am a racist.

I got the same impression, Jay. That you vote based on their standing regarding guns. Here’s why:

Jay: However, the overall records of Obama and McCain are like night and day…

Which suggests you looked at their overall records and found distinct differences. Which is fair enough. But you don’t stop there. It continues with

… in their differences with regard to the second amendment.

Which really makes it seem that is the only area you see worth comparing them on. That that is the only issue (guns) that you need to decide which way you go.

Note, I’m not saying you are or aren’t a one-issue voter, or whether that is a good or bad thing. I’m just pointing out why you’re leaving an impression that apparently you don’t intend to, and tehn jumping on folks for getting that impression.

How the hell do you know what I vote on? I like how you say, “You vote only on guns” like you know me or something. It’s one issue. Perhaps the most important issue. But not the only issue.

Barack Obama like you said, has the same views pretty much as John Kerry. Why should I vote for Obama when I didn’t vote for Kerry?

I guess that means every white person who voted for Ben Cardin in Maryland are a bunch of racists because they didn’t want a negro like Michael Steele sitting in the Senate. Correct? Obviously, they have their EXCUSES, but really it was just because they were racist.

Using your pretzel logic, that’s the only conclusion one could reach.

Which is why you reply immediately. Uh huh. Right.

Sure I replied. But trust me dude. I’m not sitting here broken up because you happen to think I’m a racist. That’s par for the course for people like yourself.

Horsefeathers. The President is expected to parlay with other world leaders and dignitaries, even when they don’t see eye to eye on things. The President is expected to think and act rationally in a crisis. A man with notorious temper problems is not a man I want in charge.

All we need is more blustery “bring it on” and “if you’re not with us, you’re against us” to keep us digging.

I’ve worked with theatrical producers and directors who have as explosive a temperament as John McCain, and inevitably everything they touch implodes under the weight of their all-encompassing anger. Imagine that writ large, and you’ll understand why I can’t vote for McCain under any circumstances.

I don’t think it is.

“Your opinion of me has about as much value as a squirt of piss. ”

Which is why you reply immediately. Uh huh. Right.

Oh stop it. So if you disagree with a candidate on ONE issue, you’re not going to support them, correct? That’s what you’re saying. I weigh all the views of candidates and make my decision based upon their overall records and policy proposals. If my vote was based wholly on the gun show “loophole” then I wouldn’t vote for either of them. However, the overall records of Obama and McCain are like night and day in their differences with regard to the second amendment. But whatever. If it gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling to say that my vote is based on racism, fine. Your opinion of me has about as much value as a squirt of piss.

It still doesn’t address the apparent issue Democrats have with racist voters within their own party.

“If Clarence Thomas stepped down from the SC to run for President, I would vote for him in a heartbeat.”

But he isn’t ever going to run, so that’s a pretty safe thing to say, isn’t it?

The polls are within the margin of error. That’s a dead heat.

More importantly… gushing press? Jesus. The media spent six weeks crucifying Obama for his former pastor’s words. Not to mention a whole lot of nonsense re: flag pins and whatnot.

Oh please. A bump in the road. Obama has been a media darling and anybody who says otherwise is either an idiot or in serious denial.

In 2004, John Kerry ran on the same policies as Obama regarding middle and lower class whites. He was painted as an elitist with coastal values. He didn’t do particularly well with middle and lower class whites.

Actually, he did. Check the exit polls.

People of J and JK’s ilk remind me of the closet racism that I sometimes still experience. The kind that says “I don’t have a problem with blacks, but when they move in property values go down” or what I heard last week from someone who should know better “I was afraid the community was getting too multicultural”. They project their own racism on their neighbors.

Yawn. When you have nothing of value to say, just resort to calling people racists. Wow. That’s original.

J and especially JK are concern trolling this issue because they can’t picture a black person in the Oval Office. But they don’t come right out and say it, they use euphemisms like “working class whites” and “values voters” to hide. They don’t even think they are racist. They may mean well, but the end problem is that Obama doesn’t fit their image of what a President looks like.

More deflection. Democrats don’t want to open their eyes to the fact that they have more racists in their party than they want to acknowledge and it might cost them the election. Of course, if Obama loses, they’ll simply play the role of ostrich and point their fingers at the mean racist Republicans and say its their fault.

As for my own viewpoints, I had initially said I would vote for Obama because I felt the country needed that kind of shake up. Then I saw his absolutely putrid record on second amendment rights and decided otherwise. His skin color has nothing to do with it, no matter how much you want to believe that is the issue. If Clarence Thomas stepped down from the SC to run for President, I would vote for him in a heartbeat. It’s about ideology and ideas, not race or gender.

You people kill me. Liberal whites don’t vote for conservative black candidates and it’s only because of the policies those black candidates espouse. Conservative whites don’t vote for liberal black candidates and it’s all because of racism.

Well, gee. In 2004, John Kerry ran on the same policies as Obama regarding middle and lower class whites. He was painted as an elitist with coastal values. He didn’t do particularly well with middle and lower class whites. Now here is the question. Why will additional middle class white voters who voted for Kerry not vote for Obama?

People of J and JK’s ilk remind me of the closet racism that I sometimes still experience. The kind that says “I don’t have a problem with blacks, but when they move in property values go down” or what I heard last week from someone who should know better “I was afraid the community was getting too multicultural”. They project their own racism on their neighbors.

J and especially JK are concern trolling this issue because they can’t picture a black person in the Oval Office. But they don’t come right out and say it, they use euphemisms like “working class whites” and “values voters” to hide. They don’t even think they are racist. They may mean well, but the end problem is that Obama doesn’t fit their image of what a President looks like. And that’s a problem that only a small minority of the public still shares.

Are you HIGH? First off, Obama has been in front of McCain in most polls by a slim but not-insignificant margin. More importantly… gushing press? Jesus. The media spent six weeks crucifying Obama for his former pastor’s words. Not to mention a whole lot of nonsense re: flag pins and whatnot.

Jay: “The increase in younger voters and more black voters may increase overall vote totals for Obama, but those additional votes will be offset by the many middle to lower middle class white voters that will sit this one out.”

This statement is nonsensical.

Jay: “Why do you think the party leadership hasn’t spoken out more strongly regarding Hillary and asking her to drop out of the race and still looking for ways to seat the Florida and Michigan delegations?”

I don’t think it’s for the reasons you think it’s for. I don’t think there’s a great need for the party leadership to step in and make a big push for Clinton to drop out. The voters are choosing their candidate. Clinton is within her rights to continue her campaign, despite the seeming futility of it all. And with respect to the Michigan and Florida delegations, of COURSE they’re looking to try and seat them in some way. The Democrats could use those states in the GE, and having their primary votes totally nullified is harmful to that end.

Of course, this whole problem is Florida’s and Michigan’s faults. What the fuck is the matter with Florida, anyway?… That state seems to always fuck things up.

And please Spider. You’re a smart person, so please spare me the drivel about McCain’s temper. That’s such a stupid non-issue.

The increase in younger voters and more black voters may increase overall vote totals for Obama, but those additional votes will be offset by the many middle to lower middle class white voters that will sit this one out. In addition, it doesn’t say anything about the electoral college impact if Obama loses a state like PA. That’s not to say he won’t win,, but it’s silly to think it’s going to be a walk in the park as people are predicting. With all of the gushing press that Obama has had recently, the tracking polls show a dead heat between him and McCain. That should tell you something.

Plus, the strained calculus that says McCain will beat Obama because a certain segment of white voters won’t vote for Obama neglects the very important factor that is the months from June to November, when the DNC will have plenty of time and ammunition to make it clear what a McCain vote is good for…warmongering, inconsistent principles, volatile temperament, and four more years of the same ideas that brought you $4.89 gallons of gas.