’)Geraldine Ferraro says she may not vote for Sen. Obama. I’m sure the thought of that is keeping him up at nights.
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I, like many others, see Obama as a JFK or Lincoln-like figure. I believe that he will do plenty of good for this country. People like Ferraro don’t upset me – I just feel sorry for her.
What is it w/ Gerri and him? I know she’d like to see a woman follow in her ‘84 VP track footsteps, but she’s a tad adamant.
She’s a closet Republican–pay her no mind
Well… This Ferraro has always been a DLC tool and more than a little racist. A lot of DLC’ers and Clintonites know their chokehold on the party is over if Obama wins the Presidency, and would just as soon see him lose so they can assert that it was all because he was an evil lefty, so we should go back to the DLC playbook of war, bigotry, and filling the pockets of their campaign contributors.
It’s sad, but it really is starting to look like Hillary’s campaign is deliberately undermining Obama among white women. It would seem that the idea of derailing the Dems and driving the country further into despair is preferable to Hillary and her close knit circle of perpetual victims. I just don’t see her accepting the VP slot. No way she is going to risk having to wait eight years only to lose once the idiot brigade forgets how much the GOP sucks and gives the Repubs the keys to the kingdom again. Better to let the country crash and burn while she sits on her fortune and patiently waits for the call to save the U.S. in 2012.
Hillary is undermining Obama amoung white women? Oh my, that has to be the laugh of the day.
Obama is doing that all by himself. You guys are so far up his butt that you can’t see that he doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in *^*^ of winning the White House because he simply has already lost with largely white, working class voters. West Virgina? That ring a bell? Uh…you sort of need that state to win the White House, and he ignored it. Wasn’t even remotely competetive.
Keep dismissing people like Ferraro, and other liberals, like myself, who simply won’t vote for Obama because of his lack of experience, glaring naivte, and questionable associations….and you’ll find yourself with another 4 years of a GOP’er in the White House.
Heck…today, he’s out there demanding that the GOP “lay off his wife.” Ohhhh…tough talk from the former Illinois State Senator. Let me clue you in on something: your wife made herself a viable issue the day she moaned about finally being proud to be an American.
Abe Lincoln? More like Abe Vigoda. But that’s even causing great insult to Vigoda, because his Barney Miller character had a backbone.
Signed,
JK…voting for the “old guy” because the young guy is the least qualified Democratic candidate I’ve ever seen. And still holding out hope that Clinton steals the nomination away from this goober.
Voting History: Kennedy, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton I & II, Gore, Kerry…..MCCAIN*
JK–thanks for bringing the stupid! 20 years from now, when you’re phoning talk radio about “the Democrat Party left me,” remember, you’re following in the fine footsteps of the prior generation. You know–those who left when the Democrats started supporting the civil rights movement.
Actually the way to end up with a Republican in the White House is for stupid people to vote for McCain.
JK – You remember the last eight years, right? There was about a hundred years of government experience between those jokers and they fucked it up big time.
I’m assuming, with your commitment to both liberal principles and competent presidents, that you bothered to look at the pre-White House careers of Abraham Lincoln and FDR, two of our nation’s most illustrious…
Lincoln: Two years in the Illinois House of Representatives.
FDR: Two years in the New York Senate. Three as New York Governor. Seven as Assistant Secretary of the Navy, a position that doesn’t automatically make you think “Presidential Material!”
For what it’s worth, Obama has about ten years of experience working in state and federal government.
The man you’re planning to vote for instead has plenty of his own questionable clergy associations (Hagee, Parsley, neither of whom he has spoken out against) and plenty of “naivete,” (his recent speech about Iraq in 2013 being a glaring example). What he also has, which Obama doesn’t, is a hair-trigger temper and a boneheaded determination to continue the failed Bush policies.
Obama has lost white, working-class voters who don’t like black people. There are plenty of white, working-class voters in other places that like him just fine. Iowa, for example.
By the by, lest I be accused of misleading, I should point out that FDR’s seven years with the Navy occurred in between his Senatorial and Gubernatorial terms.
And FDR was just following the path to the White House laid out by his cousin Teddy.
I don’t see lack of “experience” as a negative. The past 8 years have been proof enough that experience ain’t all that.
Do us all a favor, JK, just stay home.
Oh and STFU.
It doesn’t mean she’ll vote for McCain, though. If she feels as though she has been attacked and vilified by his campaign, why would she vote for him? McCain said he didn’t vote for Bush in 2000 (and I wouldn’t have either after all of the dirty tricks he played). Maybe she’ll write in Hillary.
McCain said he didn’t vote for Bush in 2000
And later said he never said that. and later said he did vote for Bush.
JK, have you heard of the phrase, “cutting off your nose despite your face?”
-A hardworking white woman for Obama
p.s. to spite. not despite.
damn.
Obama has lost white, working-class voters who don’t like black people.
Yeah, the racists that always voted DEMOCRAT that Democrats insisted didn’t exist within their party. Of course, I wrote about this back in January:
If Barack Obama is going to have trouble with race, that trouble is going to come from within his own party. Now I know that the thought of racists actually existing within the Democratic Party is something most Democrats don’t want to believe in, but it’s true. I’m not talking about the educated, upper crust Democratic voters that live on the Upper East Side in Manhattan and vacation at Martha’s Vineyard and the Hamptons. No. I’m talking about the middle to lower middle-class white voters that live in Queens, Staten Island, South Boston, and similar areas in Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, etc. These are people that hate Republicans because they’re all for “the rich” and vote for Democrats.
But they also drop the ‘n’ word as much as any sh*t kicking redneck you’ll find below the Mason-Dixon line. They won’t turn around and vote for the GOP candidate. But they will stay home.
Now in the scheme of things, it won’t matter much in states like New York and Massachusetts. Obama will win those states easily regardless. But in states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Minnesota it could make a difference. John Kerry won those four states in 2004. His largest margin of victory was in Michigan where he won by a mere 180,000 votes (out of nearly 5 million cast).
If you don’t think the Democratic leadership is looking at what happened in PA, Ohio, WV, Indiana with some concern, you’re not thinking clearly. Why do you think the party leadership hasn’t spoken out more strongly regarding Hillary and asking her to drop out of the race and still looking for ways to seat the Florida and Michigan delegations?
People are just whistling past the graveyard with the “Who cares?” attitudes regarding the losses in those states.
Sure, Jay…but Obama has also mobilized the youth vote in a way that Kerry couldn’t (and Dean did, just not nearly as well as Obama has) and the black vote in an amazing way.
Plus, the strained calculus that says McCain will beat Obama because a certain segment of white voters won’t vote for Obama neglects the very important factor that is the months from June to November, when the DNC will have plenty of time and ammunition to make it clear what a McCain vote is good for…warmongering, inconsistent principles, volatile temperament, and four more years of the same ideas that brought you $4.89 gallons of gas.
Yes, I am sure gas prices will decline as soon as Obama is sworn in. I heard the same rubbish about getting a Democratic majority in Congress.
And please Spider. You’re a smart person, so please spare me the drivel about McCain’s temper. That’s such a stupid non-issue.
The increase in younger voters and more black voters may increase overall vote totals for Obama, but those additional votes will be offset by the many middle to lower middle class white voters that will sit this one out. In addition, it doesn’t say anything about the electoral college impact if Obama loses a state like PA. That’s not to say he won’t win,, but it’s silly to think it’s going to be a walk in the park as people are predicting. With all of the gushing press that Obama has had recently, the tracking polls show a dead heat between him and McCain. That should tell you something.
Jay: “With all of the gushing press that Obama has had recently, the tracking polls show a dead heat between him and McCain. That should tell you something.”
Are you HIGH? First off, Obama has been in front of McCain in most polls by a slim but not-insignificant margin. More importantly… gushing press? Jesus. The media spent six weeks crucifying Obama for his former pastor’s words. Not to mention a whole lot of nonsense re: flag pins and whatnot.
Jay: “The increase in younger voters and more black voters may increase overall vote totals for Obama, but those additional votes will be offset by the many middle to lower middle class white voters that will sit this one out.”
This statement is nonsensical.
Jay: “Why do you think the party leadership hasn’t spoken out more strongly regarding Hillary and asking her to drop out of the race and still looking for ways to seat the Florida and Michigan delegations?”
I don’t think it’s for the reasons you think it’s for. I don’t think there’s a great need for the party leadership to step in and make a big push for Clinton to drop out. The voters are choosing their candidate. Clinton is within her rights to continue her campaign, despite the seeming futility of it all. And with respect to the Michigan and Florida delegations, of COURSE they’re looking to try and seat them in some way. The Democrats could use those states in the GE, and having their primary votes totally nullified is harmful to that end.
Of course, this whole problem is Florida’s and Michigan’s faults. What the fuck is the matter with Florida, anyway?… That state seems to always fuck things up.
Jay: “The increase in younger voters and more black voters may increase overall vote totals for Obama, but those additional votes will be offset by the many middle to lower middle class white voters that will sit this one out.”
Well, gee. In 2004, John Kerry ran on the same policies as Obama regarding middle and lower class whites. He was painted as an elitist with coastal values. He didn’t do particularly well with middle and lower class whites. Now here is the question. Why will additional middle class white voters who voted for Kerry not vote for Obama?
People of J and JK’s ilk remind me of the closet racism that I sometimes still experience. The kind that says “I don’t have a problem with blacks, but when they move in property values go down” or what I heard last week from someone who should know better “I was afraid the community was getting too multicultural”. They project their own racism on their neighbors.
J and especially JK are concern trolling this issue because they can’t picture a black person in the Oval Office. But they don’t come right out and say it, they use euphemisms like “working class whites” and “values voters” to hide. They don’t even think they are racist. They may mean well, but the end problem is that Obama doesn’t fit their image of what a President looks like. And that’s a problem that only a small minority of the public still shares.
First off, Obama has been in front of McCain in most polls by a slim but not-insignificant margin.
The polls are within the margin of error. That’s a dead heat.
More importantly… gushing press? Jesus. The media spent six weeks crucifying Obama for his former pastor’s words. Not to mention a whole lot of nonsense re: flag pins and whatnot.
Oh please. A bump in the road. Obama has been a media darling and anybody who says otherwise is either an idiot or in serious denial.
In 2004, John Kerry ran on the same policies as Obama regarding middle and lower class whites. He was painted as an elitist with coastal values. He didn’t do particularly well with middle and lower class whites.
Actually, he did. Check the exit polls.
People of J and JK’s ilk remind me of the closet racism that I sometimes still experience. The kind that says “I don’t have a problem with blacks, but when they move in property values go down” or what I heard last week from someone who should know better “I was afraid the community was getting too multicultural”. They project their own racism on their neighbors.
Yawn. When you have nothing of value to say, just resort to calling people racists. Wow. That’s original.
J and especially JK are concern trolling this issue because they can’t picture a black person in the Oval Office. But they don’t come right out and say it, they use euphemisms like “working class whites” and “values voters” to hide. They don’t even think they are racist. They may mean well, but the end problem is that Obama doesn’t fit their image of what a President looks like.
More deflection. Democrats don’t want to open their eyes to the fact that they have more racists in their party than they want to acknowledge and it might cost them the election. Of course, if Obama loses, they’ll simply play the role of ostrich and point their fingers at the mean racist Republicans and say its their fault.
As for my own viewpoints, I had initially said I would vote for Obama because I felt the country needed that kind of shake up. Then I saw his absolutely putrid record on second amendment rights and decided otherwise. His skin color has nothing to do with it, no matter how much you want to believe that is the issue. If Clarence Thomas stepped down from the SC to run for President, I would vote for him in a heartbeat. It’s about ideology and ideas, not race or gender.
You people kill me. Liberal whites don’t vote for conservative black candidates and it’s only because of the policies those black candidates espouse. Conservative whites don’t vote for liberal black candidates and it’s all because of racism.
Bullshit J. You aren’t voting for Obama because you are a Republican partisan. Your St McCain favors closing the “gun show loophole” (that you claim doesn’t exist) but somehow that isn’t an achilles heel. Just for Obama. If it wasn’t that, it would be some other real or imagined fault. Just admit you were lying when you said you would “consider” Obama. You didn’t fool anyone here.
“If Clarence Thomas stepped down from the SC to run for President, I would vote for him in a heartbeat.”
But he isn’t ever going to run, so that’s a pretty safe thing to say, isn’t it?
Your St McCain favors closing the “gun show loophole” (that you claim doesn’t exist) but somehow that isn’t an achilles heel. Just for Obama.
Oh stop it. So if you disagree with a candidate on ONE issue, you’re not going to support them, correct? That’s what you’re saying. I weigh all the views of candidates and make my decision based upon their overall records and policy proposals. If my vote was based wholly on the gun show “loophole” then I wouldn’t vote for either of them. However, the overall records of Obama and McCain are like night and day in their differences with regard to the second amendment. But whatever. If it gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling to say that my vote is based on racism, fine. Your opinion of me has about as much value as a squirt of piss.
It still doesn’t address the apparent issue Democrats have with racist voters within their own party.
You vote only on guns. That is one issue. I think it’s an excuse so you don’t have to vote for Obama for whatever reason, but its one issue.
“Your opinion of me has about as much value as a squirt of piss. ”
Which is why you reply immediately. Uh huh. Right.
please spare me the drivel about McCain’s temper. That’s such a stupid non-issue.
I don’t think it is.
please spare me the drivel about McCain’s temper. That’s such a stupid non-issue.
Horsefeathers. The President is expected to parlay with other world leaders and dignitaries, even when they don’t see eye to eye on things. The President is expected to think and act rationally in a crisis. A man with notorious temper problems is not a man I want in charge.
All we need is more blustery “bring it on” and “if you’re not with us, you’re against us” to keep us digging.
I’ve worked with theatrical producers and directors who have as explosive a temperament as John McCain, and inevitably everything they touch implodes under the weight of their all-encompassing anger. Imagine that writ large, and you’ll understand why I can’t vote for McCain under any circumstances.
You vote only on guns. That is one issue. I think it’s an excuse so you don’t have to vote for Obama for whatever reason, but its one issue.
How the hell do you know what I vote on? I like how you say, “You vote only on guns” like you know me or something. It’s one issue. Perhaps the most important issue. But not the only issue.
Barack Obama like you said, has the same views pretty much as John Kerry. Why should I vote for Obama when I didn’t vote for Kerry?
I guess that means every white person who voted for Ben Cardin in Maryland are a bunch of racists because they didn’t want a negro like Michael Steele sitting in the Senate. Correct? Obviously, they have their EXCUSES, but really it was just because they were racist.
Using your pretzel logic, that’s the only conclusion one could reach.
Which is why you reply immediately. Uh huh. Right.
Sure I replied. But trust me dude. I’m not sitting here broken up because you happen to think I’m a racist. That’s par for the course for people like yourself.
Jay: I like how you say, “You vote only on guns” like you know me or something. It’s one issue. Perhaps the most important issue. But not the only issue.
I got the same impression, Jay. That you vote based on their standing regarding guns. Here’s why:
Jay: However, the overall records of Obama and McCain are like night and day…
Which suggests you looked at their overall records and found distinct differences. Which is fair enough. But you don’t stop there. It continues with
… in their differences with regard to the second amendment.
Which really makes it seem that is the only area you see worth comparing them on. That that is the only issue (guns) that you need to decide which way you go.
Note, I’m not saying you are or aren’t a one-issue voter, or whether that is a good or bad thing. I’m just pointing out why you’re leaving an impression that apparently you don’t intend to, and tehn jumping on folks for getting that impression.
Which really makes it seem that is the only area you see worth comparing them on.
Well Sean I said it was perhaps the most important issue, but it’s not the only one.
Add to that list:
Taxes, terrorism, the Iraq War, etc.
Frankly, this is a time when I am going to seriously hold my nose when I vote. I’m not all giddy about a McCain Presidency. The guy I am looking forward to seeing a few years down the road run for President is Bobby Jindal. And — GASP!!! — he’s a minority!! Oh wait. I guess I couldn’t vote for him. He has brown skin and EL has informed everybody that I am a racist.
Me: More importantly… gushing press? Jesus. The media spent six weeks crucifying Obama for his former pastor’s words. Not to mention a whole lot of nonsense re: flag pins and whatnot.
Jay: Oh please. A bump in the road. Obama has been a media darling and anybody who says otherwise is either an idiot or in serious denial.
Hmm… excellent argument, Jay. I particularly like the use of several pertinent examples to demonstrate how I am wrong, and an idiot and/or in serious denial. A six-week campaign by the media on the Rev. Wright “issue”, punctuated by an absolutely abhorrent debate with Stephanopoulos et al., is just “a bump in the road.”
FWIW, I’ve always thought that you were more reasonable than some of the other conservative posters on this site, despite out lack of common ground. However, in this thread you’ve managed to sound like a total asshole. Fuck off.
Sincerely,
An Idiot in Total Denial
Oh and I suppose asking, “Are you HIGH?” is a much more reasoned and well thought out rebuttal. I supposed I could have just said that.
But you’re right. My response could have been better so I apologize. I can’t give specific examples, but let’s just say that the Hillary pile-on for the last several weeks has been gold for Obama. The Wright story? Wright who? That’s over and done with. I mean, what other biases are you talking about?
The fact of the matter is, aside from the Wright flap, what kind of media examination have seen of Obama’s actual record? None from what I can see. I mean, I know what his record is as do others here because we’re more informed, but what the does the general public know about Obama other than that he draws enthusiastic crowds and is a great public speaker and is raising a lot of money?
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t buy into the whole “liberal media” trope. But the coverage of Obama is similar to that of what McCain was getting in 2000. Very positive. The 6 weeks of Wright and Georgie boy don’t make up for the months of fawning.
Taxes, terrorism, the Iraq War, etc.
Yes. You’re in favor of those.
Okay, 2 out of 3.
True, Jay, but for that matter what real examination have we had of any of the candidates’ records? The media is not in the dry, dull business of expounding on “boring” details. Obama’s summary character as “that great public speaker” is about as simplistic as McCain’s “that maverick war hero” and Clinton’s “that former First Lady.”
McCain, obviously, also voted for the war, but Hillary’s war vote is more interesting because she’s a member of the party that featured more anti-war sentiment. So she gets more attention and flak for it even though they were both dead wrong.
People who look to the media to get a full story are deluding themselves. The problem is that an educated electorate takes effort on the part of the electorate, and too many refuse to make that effort.
Spider, I agree with you. The MSM hasn’t really played much of a role in examining any of the three candidates’ records. They’ve been more interested in talking about shit that doesn’t really matter at all (e.g., Wright, flag pins, sniper fire in Bosnia, etc). For example, McCain’s frequent botching of the difference between Shia and Sunni, among his other verbal misfires, haven’t received near the attention that I think they deserve in the MSM. It’s not fair to hold Obama to a higher standard regarding the media’s handling of the candidates.
Jay, apology accepted. The “Are you high?” comment was really more of a joke than anything, something to convey my disbelief and not intended as a real critique. Sorry if it came across otherwise.
Jay: The Wright story? Wright who? That’s over and done with.
Oh, yes. I’m sure during the General we’ll never see any ad showing or hear a reference to Wright ever again.
Jay: The fact of the matter is, aside from the Wright flap, what kind of media examination have seen of Obama’s actual record? None from what I can see. … the coverage of Obama is similar to that of what McCain was getting in 2000. Very positive.
So do you think a fair examination of his actual record would be actually be a bad thing for Obama?