Talkleft continues to self parody to a ridiculous extent.
(And the comments on the post are exploring how the nefarious Obama campaign faked having 75,000 people in Oregon yesterday. The upside of this primary campaign is that we’ve learned who the crazies on our side of the aisle are.)
As I understand your point, posting a poll result is self parody.
You really are pretty stupid some times Oliver.
What’s stupid Armando is calling this race a coronation. Especially from a blog supporting the original coronation candidate.
Excuse me Oliver, perhaps you have missed the stories about the once expected declaration on the night of May 20 that Obama has won the nominaton,
That was the point of my post. MOST people following the election closely understood the reference. You seem to have lost track of what has been going on lately.
The idea was – still likely – that Obama will have enough votes on May 20 to give him enough delegates to officially be the nominee. That is, unlike Sen. Clinton, he would say he was the nominee when he is the nominee. That’s a far cry from the coronation Sen. Clinton tried to push for almost two years.
And Oliver’s point was that referring to this long and bruising fight as a “coronation” on any level seems ignorant of history.
Remember right after Iowa and New Hampshire, when Obama’s victory was quaint and Hillary’s victory was definitive? Remember right before Super Tuesday, when the general expectation was that on Wednesday everybody would pat Obama on the head and say “Sorry, kid. Ya got spunk, but it’s just not your time”?
Obama earned the nomination, presuming he gets it. You are going to have to deal with that.
Excuse me, Armando, perhaps you missed the last eight weeks of reality that pointed out Obama has won the nomination.
The title of your post is yet another coy little bit of snark to troll Obama supporters happy about their preferred candidates’ victory. That you’re reducing what used to be a really good website into a series of nothing but childish earlobe-tweaks to somehow reduce the magnitude of Obama’s achievements is the self-parody Oliver (and most other rational people) are noticing.
Why not just sneak into an Obama victory party and take a shit in the punchbowl and be done with it? That’s pretty much the only thing posts like that have the intent of doing.
What’s stupid is Armando. But we knew that.
What is tiring about Armando is his continued use of insults against those within the progressive movement. Particularly jarring is his constant insistence that his critics are too stupid to understand something, or that they simply did not–or can not–read well enough to get what was obvious.
I ceased stopping by over at TalkLeft a long time ago when it seemed far too caught up in the minutiae of the Duke LaCrosse scandal. I was shocked at what had become of it when I checked in again this year. Yikes!
Also, “Sounds about right,” is by far the least industrious or insightful political comment ever uttered, yet he insists on using it in every other post.
Armando and Jeralyn have been completely unhinged lately. Calling this nomination process a coronation of Obama, and citing two very weak polls as proof of “second thoughts” is the height of stupidity.
Do you folks really believe that it was smart and fair to point to my post showing a poll that show that voters in KY and apparently Oreghon were not ready for Obama’s announcement on May 20 that he had won the nomination as a parody?
I tell you what, you guys keep thinking you are the Masters of the Universe. If anyone cares about facts, they might note I have said for a while now Obama is going to eb the nominee. I have been working at reconciling clinton supporters to this fact and arguing for unifying the party.
the rest of you are still about juvenile taunts and bulsshit.
Aravosis is your model.
Will any of you notice that Michelle Obama is changing her tone? fuck no. Divide and divide is what you seem to be about. It is fucking remarkable how many of you do not give two shits about teying to win in November,
Kill the bitch and her supporters is the only thing you people care about.
1. Nobody here called her a bitch, you’re the one projecting.
2. Apparently your way of unifying the party is to say Obama is being coronated the nominee.
3. Apparently the way you comment on the facts is to create imaginary scenarios where you crap on Obama for months on end, dredging up the worst right wing bullshit then claim with a straight face you’re advocating Democratic wins in November.
Oliver, I have been criticized Obama’s political style for YEARS! Not months. Years!. My criticism have been consistent throughout. I stand by them.
Nobody here called her a bitch? Well, bully for you, you found euphemism for that word.
As for the coronation, I have stated repeatedly, over and fucking over again, that I think Obama makes a mistake in excluding MI and FL. It hurts HIM in November. It hurts US in November. He si going to be the nominee. We know that.
HOW he becomes the nominee matters, a lot.
And I defy you to name one fucking post where I used (I am not Jeralyn Oliver) RW talking points against Obama. Inever EVEr have. Ever. I saud Rezko was BS. I never attacked him on Wright or Ayers or Hamas or any of it.
You are just lying about me now.
And that is bullshit by you. complete bullshit.
I think someone needs to calm down
As for the coronation, I have stated repeatedly, over and fucking over again, that I think Obama makes a mistake in excluding MI and FL. It hurts HIM in November. It hurts US in November.
Gods, over and over with this nonsense. Look, the delegates are going to get seated in some way. The Democratic Party (which is not just Barack Obama, y’know) will not exclude Florida and Michigan in the end.
But they are not going to be seated the way they could have been seated if they had just followed the rules as stipulated by the national party.
And this was agreed upon by Obama, Clinton, Edwards, Richardson, etcetera etcetera at the start of the primary.
If Mrs. Clinton’s concern was really for those poor disenfranchised voters, she would be willing to accept ANY deal that gets them seated, even one that is disadvantageous to her nomination hopes. This is not the case.
If anyone cares about facts, they might note I have said for a while now Obama is going to eb the nominee. I have been working at reconciling clinton supporters to this fact and arguing for unifying the party.
Bullshit. You have been working on crafting whatever arguments are necessary to insist that “unity” only exists if Clinton is on the ticket. You don’t support Obama; you support Clinton, and realize that since you can only support Clinton as Obama’s running mate, it’s “the only way to win.”
Guess what? “Obama can’t win” is a right-wing talking point. And if you’re going to froth that you never suggested that, then I have no qualms pointing out how big a liar you are.
And seriously, buddy, let’s not even get into your indignation about “euphemisms.” Because if you want to debate the “euphemisms” you’ve been throwing out for the last two months about Obama’s (cough cough) “electability” I’m sure there are more than enough people here ready and willing to hand your ass to you on it.
Well, bully for you, you found euphemism for that word.
This does not make sense on planet earth.
Others have handled your other b.s. claims.
Obama is becoming the nominee by getting the most primary votes and caucus votes, the same way Kerry, Gore, and Clinton did. These things didn’t start to be a problem for you guys until Sen. Clinton started losing. Then, instead of imploring your candidate to do a better fucking job, you have decided that the process is to blame.
Yawn. Idiot Armando, like his failed candidate and her bogus arguments that he recycles, is irrelevant. The rest of us can and should move on. Don’t feed the troll.
Actually no one had actually addressed any of my claims BS or otherwise.
When did I start railing against Obama’s political style Oliver? do any of you know? Try 2005.
When did I start bitching about caucuses and the pledged delegate system? Try September 2007.
When did I start talking about the popular vote? Try January 2008.
When facts do no t matter, then of course you can say and do anything to slime me.
What is fucking ironic to me is that now your best friends are Sullivan and Cole who fucking called you AND ME Fifth Columnists, supported the Bell Curve, supported Summers; secists remarks. supported Roberts and Alito.
I, who fought against the Iraq Debacle, against Bush, against the racism that Sully supported, the sexism that Cole and others supported, the New McCarthyism that Cole and Sullivan championed, is now nothing but a piece of shit according to you but they are your newest BFFs.
Is there NOTHING wrong with that picture for any of you? do you hatre all of us who fought those fights just because we do not genuflect at the altar of Obama? Is all forgiven for those who smeared you and other Dems unmercifully just because they now genuflect at the Altar of Hillary Hate?
Do you have no compunction at all in wondering what you are doing?
BTW August, name a post where I say Obama can’t win. I say consistently he WILL win. Never have I said he can not win. I think he can win big IF he can improve his appeal to white working class voters.
I think he can definitely win if he can unify the Party.
I think what I have to say helps Obama win more than what any of you have to say.
In the trivial scheme of the blogs. I think all of you do Obama harm.
“Do you folks really believe that it was smart and fair to point to my post showing a poll that show that voters in KY and apparently Oreghon were not ready for Obama’s announcement on May 20 that he had won the nomination as a parody?”
Interesting use of past tense in your proclamation above. Today’s only May 19th, so how exactly do you know for sure that Obama’s declaring victory on the 20th? Are you relying on anonymous sources from Politico? You’ve had a peek at his speech from Tomorrow night? Time machine? Personally, I’d rather believe Obama’s own statements in Oregon this weekend where he indicated that Tuesday’s results will not equal victory.
August:
Hand me my head on euphemisms if you think you can. But quote MY WORDS when doing so. So far not one of you have been able to actually throw MY WORDS back at me. NOT one.
Please do so, throw my words back at me, if you can.
MY WORDS August. Not Jerlayn’s.
Pistol Pete:
I see, when I use news sources it is worng of me. But if there is a post supporting Obama or attacking Clinton, it is perfectly fine.
Just above, Oliver rightly slams Haim Saban, Based ON NEWS REPORTS, that he offered a donation in exchange for their SD votes. Like Oliver, I believe those news sources.
But how does Oliver know this? Was he is the room? That story is based on anonymous sources.
Frankly, yours is a perfect example of the BS we see out here.
So now that we have the vitriol out of the way, can we have a substantive discussion?
Let’s face it, Oliver and August are two of the best bloggers out there. We ALL know that. But they are not being fair to me.
and if it was anyone else, like the commenters at dkos, I would not give a shit. but I DO care what Oliver and August think and write. that’s why I am here engaging them.
Will anyone engage me on what I wrote?
I guess not. Well, I tried.
Have a nice afternoon everyone.
Good Lord. You waited five minutes before walking away?
Some of us are responding to these blogs while we’re at work, you know.
Hard work, I should point out.
And I’m not white.
Divide and divide is what you seem to be about. It is fucking remarkable how many of you do not give two shits about teying to win in November,
Wow. That’s projecting. Please show me where this comes from, because all of the Obama supporters I know have never tried to divide the party. Not ONE person who has voted for Obama has suggested (to me, anyway) that they would vote for McBush if he was not the nominee.
I can not say the same for your commenters.
3:42…. 3:47. That’s a hell of an attention span for someone who whines daily that the primary isn’t actually settled until the vote comes in from the Republic of Palau on March 19, 2013.
Armando: Your post pointedly ignored real news, straight from the horses mouth, and instead chose to promote an unsourced item that happened to be preferential to your candidate’s cause, so that you could slam said horse. Thus, my point.
If you think it’s bull shit, then so be it, but at least have the dignity to act like you live in a world where reality actually exists. You can believe anything that you want, but when a campaign publicly contradicts something that was sourced anonymously, continuing to give preference to the latter over the former seems willfully stubborn. To then expect someone not to call you on it? Well, that’s a special level of entitlement you must enjoy.
Pistol Pete:
Haim Saban denied the report. I think he is full of crap. don;t you?
I think the Obama came DID plan to declare victory tomorrow night. and saw ut was not playing so well. So they pulled it.
There is no difference at all in the stories.
Pols say what they say. I am pretty cynical about all of them. I am not one to think Obama is NOT a pol. I guess you see him differently than I do.
August:
Practically speaking, the nomination is decided now. I have siad so for while.
I am talking about how to present that fact in a way that is politically advantageous to Obama and the Dems.
I do not get it. Do you really NOt believe there is a lot of acting and theatre in politics?
Duro62:
you post would make sense If I had ever suggested that I would not vote for Obama. since I have said I would and have urged clinton supporters to do the same, I have no idea what your comment could possibly be about.
Then I’ll say it again.
I can not say the same for your commenters.
The only thing interesting about your polls is the spread of Kentuckians (Kentukites?) who have a problem with Obama’s *ahem* “electibility.”
Armando -
Yes. You’re so right. Obama’s not a politician, he’s the messiah, or so I read from your commenters all the time, and He can do no wrong in my eyes. Stop projecting on others, it’s a real pissy thing to do, and, you’re also better than that. I’ve never given a single indication here that Obama is not a politician, or is somehow perfect. Anyone who thinks otherwise is setting themselves up for a big letdown.
You continued to hammer on something after it was no longer operative (if it ever was). Don’t act as if that is Oliver’s problem or Obama’s fault. This was about you.
And, to tell you the truth, I don’t think Saban offered the money, at least not overtly. I’d hope that someone with his savvy would be a little more subtle in buying people off. Also, one would think that the YDs wouldn’t be so expensive. The only reason that it even sounds remotely plausible to me is that several high-profile Clinton donors have been very open in their threats against the party, especially the DNC, in recent months. So far, however, I’ve yet to actually hear of bribes, at least on this level.
Seems someone has too much spare time on his hands.
Do you really NOt believe there is a lot of acting and theatre in politics?
Do you really believe six weeks of insinuating the black guy can’t win is “theatre?” Oh, how silly of me; Hillary was merely playing the role of a demagogue in Pennsylvania and West Virginia. Well, that makes it all better then.
I am talking about how to present that fact in a way that is politically advantageous to Obama and the Dems.
It’s called conceding. That’s sort of the opposite of claiming Obama’s win is “illegitimate” and insisting he has a “problem” with white people, as some people desperate to force Clinton past her time of relevance to the primary have been doing for the last six weeks.
(5.00 / 2) (#31)
by MarkL on Mon May 19, 2008 at 03:09:30 PM EST
Personally I’m getting excited by the possibility that Obama loses to McCain by historic margins.
There’s some unity for ya.
first y’all say he’s too green and then say he’s an insider. I don’t get it.
Ooh, I like this one too.
Well, I guess noting more need be said.
Enjoy your mocking of me.
Armando, to be honest, I’m not that familiar with you or your site, or Jeralyn either, for that matter. I have only become aware since this whole mess got started and you and jeralyn and Taylor Marsh started channeling your inner Drudge.
I’m not mocking you at all, I am just curious why you and your commenters thing Barack Obama is the worst thing to happen to American politics since Joe McCarthy.
My only concern is will you support and vote for the Democratic nominee for President, whoever it is?
NOTHING that happens between now and November is as important as defeating John McCain and the GOP.
Period.
The sooner we can all agree on that the better.
Haim Saban denied the report. I think he is full of crap. don;t you?
I think anyone who had anything to do with the Power Rangers is full of crap, yes.
Well, I guess noting more need be said.
Enjoy your mocking of me.
Rough translation: Oh, fuck, I can’t ban you people here!
Armando’s concern trolling of Obama is wearing a little thin. Speaking for myself only, of course.
[i]“But quote MY WORDS when doing so. So far not one of you have been able to actually throw MY WORDS back at me. NOT one. Please do so, throw my words back at me, if you can.”[/i]
And I defy you to name one fucking post where I used (I am not Jeralyn Oliver) RW talking points against Obama. Inever EVEr have. Ever. – Armando 5/19/08…”What Hillary Has and Obama Needs: An Image of Toughness” – Armando 5/9/08
“Excuse me Oliver, perhaps you have missed the stories about the once expected declaration on the night of May 20 that Obama has won the nominaton,” – Armando 5/19/08 – maybe he missed comments like this “In Oregon, on May 20, is where Obama can finish this race. By winning.” – Armando 5/2/08, oh wait he wrote it
And that’s just from the last two weeks. I can only imagine what a archives search would find.
Don’t flatter yourself, jerk. You’re not important enough for that.