It’s totally shocking that a black Democrat would have trouble winning this region. And by “shocking” I mean “not at all surprising”. Because of proximity here in Maryland we get occasional exposure to Appalachian stuff. I know it’s not nice to say but as a black man in the 21st century it isn’t exactly a region I think should be having much say about the future of America. And it isn’t.
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You might like this, Oliver. I know that you like comic books. “Hillary Clinton and the Legion of Super-Duper Delegates.” (Superboy turn out to be kind of a dickhead, unfortunately.)
it isn’t exactly a region I think should be having much say about the future of America.
And what makes them less of Americans than anybody else? I wonder what your reaction would be if a similar thing were said about people that live in Compton.
Seeing what kind of conditions some people in Appalachia live in, it dispels the myth that there’s no poor white people in this country. And contrary to your idiotic and totally bigoted statement, not everybody that lives in Appalachia is a cross burning KKK member. They’re real people, many of whom lack access to the same kinds of opportunities that many black kids in the inner city do. Yet you’ve just dismissed them with a wave of your hand.
Yeah, let’s not play the age-old game beloved of the screwers, of pitting the screwees against one another. (Bad enough when Clinton does that in the other direction.) One of the huge challenges facing this country is convincing all the people who are getting the short end of the stick that they’re really on the same side and need to work together.
Yes Jay, it’s not like similar things about “these people shouldn’t have much say about the future of America” aren’t said constantly about the many residents of San Francisco, or New York, or Vermont, or Massachusetts by the entire right-blogosphere and widest read columnists or radio talkers.
Has anyone here expressed approval of that stuff, Rheinhard?
Should our standards be “we don’t need to be any better than the worst right-wing tools”?
You know Rheinhard, the whole “they do it too” drivel is not a valid argument.
“it isn’t exactly a region I think should be having much say about the future of America”
Oh.
So West Virginia is one of those “states that don’t matter” that you have been harping on all year?
Pray tell, Oliver… why doesn’t it matter? What’s different about West Virginia?
As a black man, what’s the problem with West Virginia?
It can’t be a race thing, because Democrats simply…aren’t…racists. Only hateful Republicans are.
I learned that from you.
It can’t be simply that Obama got his tail kicked in every single county in the state, because then you’re simply undermining the argument you’ve been trying to make about the Clinton camp - a state doesn’t matter if you don’t win it.
Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that no Democrat since 1916 has won the White House without carrying West Virginia? If that’s your argument, then perhaps I’d agree with you - a blue West Virginia certainly would be a negative, in my opinion. But I wonder if you’d agree with that. I tend to think you don’t.
So please, Oliver, enlighten me: why do you think West Virginia “isn’t exactly a region I think should be having much say about the future of America?”
Many areas of the south, especially the rural south, are ok with discrimination. It doesn’t have anything to do with income, but its values.
Oliver,
Don’t know if you caught the news. A bigot ERUPTION of epic porportions. My town of Marietta,GA has a idiot owner of a sports bar selling t-shirts: Obama in 08 with Curious George in the shirt. And to him, “He resembles him around the ears…There is nothing offensive!” I really HATE living in the South. These knuckledraggers need to die off.
“You know Rheinhard, the whole “they do it too” drivel is not a valid argument.”
Are you serious, Jay? That’s your go to position on just about everything.
“You know Rheinhard, the whole “they do it too” drivel is not a valid argument.”
It’s been so long, so I’ll assume this is a consistent position for you to take, Jay. But I know that these comment sections are where I most often found people bringing up Sandy Berger or much, much, much younger Robert Byrd every time the press mentioned yet another corrupt or racist Republican.
I kind of disagree with the premise of this post. W. Virginians aren’t necessarily individually less enlightened than anyone else, though there are some backwaters. That being said, it’s funny seeing cons run for the fainting couch when they have risen to power on condemning the “liberal elites” in the Northeast and Pacific West.
Are you serious, Jay? That’s your go to position on just about everything.
Your so full of shit it’s coming out of your ears. The “You do it too” game is something I NEVER do, so go take a flying f**k at a rolling donut dude.
White Whale,
have you ever seen or heard of George Bush referred to as “Chimpy?”
“Chimpy McBush?”
“Chimpy McBushitler?”
How about “Smirking Chimp?”
Try plugging some of those into Google Images and see what pops up.
Did you ever once express the same disdain for those efforts on the part of your fellow travelers that you’ve just posted above?
Aside from the skin color of the butt of the jokes, what’s the difference between them?
If you’re treating one as funny, and one as reprehensible, simply based on skin color, doesn’t that make you one of those non-existent Democrat racists?
Me, I see the humor in both. And I await with great anticipation the growing outrage from the creators of pictures like what I found a Google Images, when another presidential candidate’s face gets substituted in.
Such tolerance for the views you agree with. How very damned big of you.
West Virginia is probably a lot like Missouri. In the larger population centers you have a strong democratic voting block, while outstate in the rural and semi-rural areas you will find republicans swarming around like flies on shit. But you would find that split in just about every state in the union.
The real similarities lie further out there, deep in Ozark Country. That’s the place where sitting Governor Matt Blunt and his daddy Roy Blunt comes from. Former Senator and Attorney General lightning rod John Ashcroft hails from that region of the state as well.
Needless to say, some of the most disgusting shit comes from that part of the state. Racism? Check. Economic Disenfranchisement? Check. Jim Bakker stylized fundamentalist religious fanaticism? Check. (Jim Bakker actually lives and has a HUGE brand spanking new PTL stylized church campus outside Branson, MO)
A little over a decade ago, I served on a jury trial involving a man who sexually abused at least 3 young girls (one of whom was his own grandniece) here in Saint Louis. The family was originally from the Ozarks. After several grueling days of testimony, jury deliberation and a court decision, I was later told by the Prosecuting attorney that the Grandmother, who was a key witness in the case, needed to be soundly convinced that testifying against her brother was a good idea. You see, the Grandmother was under the impression that it was quite OK for her brother to fuck his grandniece and her friends. The Grandmother wasn’t worried because that’s just the way things are down in Ozark Country. (For reference, that’s the areas in and around Branson, Missouri!)
Let’s face it, the value systems that people become accustomed to in the outstate regions (like the Ozarks and parts of West Virginia) are NOT the same as you would find in most American cities. These people are about as alien to us as can be. The only thing connecting us and them would be that we are from the same old US of A.
It’s no surprise to me that voters in West Virginia rejected Barack Obama. The only reason Barack edged a victory here in Missouri was because Saint Louis and Kansas City came out in FORCE and provided a nice hedge to those backwater racist, child fucking rural folks who might have voted for Hilary.
West Virginia does not have two or three median to major population centers to counterbalance the rural racists.
There will be a few states that this phenomenon occurs, but I don’t think it will spoil the direction this election is taking.
Many areas of the south, especially the rural south, are ok with discrimination. It doesn’t have anything to do with income, but its values.
jeez, Oliver, can the stereotyping, okay? The media goes out of its way to find stupid, divisive quotes to show on the 6 o’clock news. Do you really believe that the idiots chosen to give 5-second soundbites represent the best recorded comments, or just the most inflammatory?
Yes, racism still exists in the South, particularly the rural South. But you know what? I heard as much racist crap in South Boston as I ever heard while living in Texas, South Carolina, or Kentucky.
I hate to say it, but Jay is absolutely correct when he compares living conditions in Appalachia to those in the inner cities. And yet, there is an tendency to “fuck the stupid hillbillies” among some so-called progressives that very much echoes the “welfare queen, drug addict” rhetoric of the right wing.
West Virginia voted overwhelmingly for HRC. My home state will most likely do the same thing next week. Some of those votes will be cast against the scary black man. But many of those votes will be cast out of nostalgia for the first Clinton presidency, and out of misplaced loyalty to the old Democratic party it represents.
(And I would add that not all Appalachians are white, either. Check out the Affrilachian movement if you want another view of Appalachia.)
That’s right. Obama can’t win in Appalachia. Republicans, there is no need to campaign in these areas. No need to address the issues that concern voters there. Stay away! Use your money elsewhere! You have it in the bag! Really, you do….
Jay: “And what makes them less of Americans than anybody else? ”
Yes. Racism is an anti-American value. While you can be American and a racist, you are less American if you are racist.
Southern Quaker: “Yes, racism still exists in the South, particularly the rural South. But you know what? I heard as much racist crap in South Boston as I ever heard while living in Texas, South Carolina, or Kentucky.”
Take a look at the states that outlawed inter-racial marriage before it was struck down. I think you will notice a geographical pattern.
matt621 - I’ve never been fond of the Chimpy McBush meme, but you’re incredibly ignorant of history if you think that “Chimpy McBush” can be compared equally to any image of a black man depicted as an ape.
But many of those votes will be cast out of nostalgia for the first Clinton presidency, and out of misplaced loyalty to the old Democratic party it represents.
Therein lies my biggest problem with Hillary. Nostalgia is quaint, but it don’t get the job done. This country needs an enema.
This kind of shit makes me bitter. I’m getting my gun and going to church.
Matt,
I could be wrong but search where I have refered to Bush as “Chimperor” and get back to me. I would doubt you can find where I have said such a thing, but I would love to be proved wrong. You, my friend are showing some willfull ignorance to not see this Jim Crow tactic and recognize its divisivness. Calling George Bush a chimp is probably referecing he mannerisms, attitude towards speaking, a simian mindset or whatever. I don’t choose to call him that because I could easily say the man is lacking in the intellegence area to be our president. Its in poor taste to name call the president a chimp, but your an idiot if you don’t see the hurt and racism that depicting a prominent African American as a monkey shows. Put that in your moral absolution pipe and smoke it my friend:)
Clearly, West Virginia did not get the memo when all the Dixiecrats switched parties.
But god forbid, we use a stereotype to define them.
Oliver, without Appalachia, I think we would have missed out on some of the best Twilight Zone episodes…. /snerk
Good job Duros62, that’s a very nice retelling of a retelling of a foaf. I think you need to post that to CL telling readers they need to repost it 5 times in different cities or else bad things will happen to them.
Yes. Racism is an anti-American value. While you can be American and a racist, you are less American if you are racist.
Of course, that is based on the broad brush stereotype that every single person that lives in these areas are racist. That’s bigotry all on its own and as such makes people who believe it, less American.
That stereotype is no different from the bogus one that all blacks who live in the inner cities in America are gang bangers, drug dealers, and welfare recipients.
It’s amazing how people can be so hypocritical, while with one side of their mouth, engaging in the worst kind of stereotyping of people and in the other, condemning others for doing it.
Every single area? No. More than the average? Yep. I didn’t say WV or Appalachia didn’t count. It counts, add it to the scoreboard. But I don’t think Appalachia and its throwback view of the world represents the future of America. And no Dem has won the White House without winning Missouri (where Obama won). And OMG you know what? Texas used to be a Democratic state, but then the party made the mistake of saying black people have equal rights and Texas went Republican.
“Many areas of the south, especially the rural south, are ok with discrimination. It doesn’t have anything to do with income, but its values.”
Apparently, even among Democratic voters in West Virginia, huh?
How does this square with all I keep hearing about how tolerant and inclusive Democrats are? The universal values of the Democrats don’t exactly show up at the ballot box. It’s even more pronounced if you look at urban black voters.
And what about if we took your statement and tweaked it just a tiny bit? If your logic is sound, it ought to hold up.
“Many areas of the north, especially the urban north, are ok with affirmative action. It doesn’t have anything to do with income, but its values.”
Still true? Does it help explain the near 90% advantage Obama enjoys in African American demographics? After all, it’s not about the color of her skin but the content of her character, is this not what the enlightened voter believes?
Or am I misunderstanding Dr. King?
Your statement is a fabulous non sequitur, but below your usual efforts at changing the subject when the details grow inconvenient.
Good job Duros62, that’s a very nice retelling of a retelling of a foaf.
Yeah, I know, a little circular. Hey, I didn’t write it.
matt621: “Did you ever once express the same disdain for those efforts on the part of your fellow travelers that you’ve just posted above?
Aside from the skin color of the butt of the jokes, what’s the difference between them?”
Aside from the skin color. Aside from the skin color. When it comes to racist attacks, the skin color is all that matters.
Do we really have to explain this to you?
Me: “Yes. Racism is an anti-American value. While you can be American and a racist, you are less American if you are racist.”
Jay: “Of course, that is based on the broad brush stereotype that every single person that lives in these areas are racist.”
Fuck you, you lying sack of shit. I never said anything that could even be misinterpreted as that. And if you are attacking someone else, fucking quote them and not me.
“It’s amazing how people can be so hypocritical,”
It’s amazing how you can be so fucking stupid. Your desperate need to find an excuse, any excuse to attack someone else for the sins of your party is pathetic.
“Many areas of the south, especially the rural south, are ok with discrimination. It doesn’t have anything to do with income, but its values.”
matt621: “Apparently, even among Democratic voters in West Virginia, huh?”
Yep. Sad but true. Of course, Democrats are less likely to be racist, after all, the Republics have a history of using race-baiting to win elections in the south.
Hell, Trent Lott apologized for using this racist campaign strategy, and then was forced by his party to apologize for apologizing.
“It’s even more pronounced if you look at urban black voters.”
That’s right. Because black voters have never voted for a white presidential candidate before.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
God, you guys are so fucking stupid.
Matt,
I think it is you that are changing the subject. I guess your search turned up nothing and you decided to insert your presupposed ideas of me with others. I would say it is telling that you can’t see how the shirt is indicative of racism, but I DON’T KNOW you. I can however, gather some inkling through statements and dodges, your lack of understanding how depicting an African American as a monkey is offensive and racist. Tsk..Tsk…
CS, you are without a doubt the stupidest person on the planet. Your responses here show that. I mean, you live in Canada. Do you people have a problem with permanent brain freeze up there? It’s either that or you’re a marvel of nature: The only man alive that can surf the Interent and type stupid ass shit with his head so far up his ass, it’s giving him a second adam’s apple.
Know what? You’re going back on ignore. I cannot waste any more brain cells on your drivel. You are a STUPID, STUPID man.
White Whale,
I never supposed that you approved of the Chimpy meme, and it is a Herculean stretch for you to infer it.
Let’s review what I actually said, without the fictional subtext you’ve inserted:
“Did you ever once express the same disdain for those efforts on the part of your fellow travelers that you’ve just posted above?”
Since you seem deficient in your understanding of the language, let me put it more simply: did you find references to Bush as Chimp as offensive then, as you find references to Obama as Chimp now?
It’s a simple question, which to your credit you did answer, after a fashion, by validating the original comparison: “Calling George Bush a chimp is probably referecing he mannerisms, attitude towards speaking, a simian mindset or whatever.”
Now, I guess I need to apologize here to both you and C.S. Strowbridge.
You see, I made the terrible mistake of using wrong definition of racism in making my point.
Apparently, the Webster’s definition I was thinking of, “discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race,” wasn’t the right one.
For if holding that insult C (for Chimp) is appropriate toward politician W (for Dubya), is it not discriminatory behavior to hold that the same insult is inappropriate toward politician O (for Obama)?
Logic (possible a foreign concept, try looking it up) and the dictionary tell us that racism is in the discriminatory behavior. Holding someone to a different standard is discriminatory. If the different standard is leveled only because of a difference in race, the discrimination is, by definition, racism. QED.
But what I failed to recognize is that you were apparently using the more liberal definition of racism, which apparently is “ANY behavior towards members of another race.”
So, I deeply, sincerely and humbly apologize. And to add a familiar liberal ring to it, let me also extend that apology to anyone who was stupid enough to misinterpret my remarks in an offensive manner.
But the combined arguments of both you and C.S. do serve to prove out the cliche (which I’ve translated in C.S.’s native tongue so he can understand it too):
IF ALL YOU FUCKING ARE IS A FUCKING HAMMER, EVERY FUCKING PROBLEM FUCKING LOOKS LIKE A FUCKING NAIL.
But I’m glad to see the creativity lessons are taking hold, C.S. You fuckwit.
Matt,
I again I think you are supposing that these two incidents are exactly the same and therefore “us liberals” are just finding the Obama incident racists, but not the Chimp incident. I do dissaprove of people calling the President a chimp, but it is not the same as depicting an African American as a monkey. Correct me if I am wrong, but you STILL haven’t arrived at that point, where not only is the shirt racists, but there is a difference. If you believe that calling the President a Chimp is equally as offensive as depicting a prominent African American as a monkey, then just say so. Where I believe you have gone off is by asking me why have I not chastised others for calling Bush a chimp, again presupposing I have or have not, yet I again point to the fact that comparing Bush to a chimp is not racists but crude. It speaks to other aspects. Is it offensive? Yes. Is it RACIST? No. Do not conflate something being offensive with being racist. There are no herculean stretchs here, I simply would like if you would answer my question regarding the Obama shirt. My illogical brain says you can honestly answer this, but you know us liberals and are lack of logic(snark).
For if holding that insult C (for Chimp) is appropriate toward politician W (for Dubya), is it not discriminatory behavior to hold that the same insult is inappropriate toward politician O (for Obama)?
No. It isn’t discriminatory as much as it is disparaging. It is an insult of W’s intelligence, something he could probably change, if he so desired. (Not to mention that Curious George is more fitting, because that is his name, after all).
It is racist to O because it is not something he can change.
I see the point that any disparagement of Obama from the right could probably - not in every case - be construed as racism, simply because that is the only glaring thing the right can attack him for. Will that always be the case? Of course not. Should be acceptable? No. As Obama has said, Not this time.