But this is exactly what Republicans are fighting against. They WANT healthcare to be a privilege for those who can afford it. They WANT poorer people to get sick and die. They WANT doctors to “earn” astronomical wages. Of course, they will (mostly) deny this to your face, but behind closed doors, this is EXACTLY what they are shooting for.

Sick people are sick because they are poor. Poor people are poor because they are lazy and/or stupid. Lazy/stupid people cost non-lazy/stupid people money. Anything that costs rich people money should be eliminated at all costs.

Throw in the fact that, to some “Christians,” being poor is an indication that you are not among God’s favored people, and well, they’re just doing God a favor by sending you to hell a little quicker!

Your facts are quite simply wrong and/or non-typical. Speaking as a Canadian resident interested in this whole debate, Canada’s system works. You can’t take the worst case numbers fromt the worst case region of a country and call that typical. Alberta for example has one of the lowest tax rates in all of North America, no sales tax and I waited exactly 2 months for reconstructive knee surgery and it cost me absolutely nothing, AND it was the result of a motorcycle accident. Try to find that stateside.

I had my gall bladder removed, showed up to the ER with pain, was admitted an hour later, and within a week had the surgery to remove it. Again, no cost to me.

The real nice part of the whole thing is that the unemployed newly bankrupt guy can expect the EXACT same level of care. Healthcare should not be a privelege of the wealthy, it should be a right to all citizens.

And to the point of not being able to find a dentist? I can leaf through the phone book and have an appointment with 15 different dentists within a week.

The only people that the ‘free market’ system works for is the insurance companies making billions off the skin of hard working citizens.

Red tape as a result of oversight, as in practicing due dillegence. That often happens in government, fuckstick.

As for the Dude’s wife’s breast cancer, you shouldn’t be taking her to a dentist to treat her cancer. Seriously though, Canada has 1/10 the population of the US in slightly more square miles. I am sure there are problems territory to territory and in some areas of medicine, just as we have in the US. The life expectancy of a male in Shannon county South Dakota is only 48 years.

Compared to the US, Canada has better life expectancy rates, lower child mortality rates, pays about half per capita for health care, and spends less in government revenues (percentage wise) on healthcare.

Last response, as mentioned in an earlier thread, medical costs, continuing and long term medical care is a major component of malpractice suits. Take away that component and awards will shrink.

No one wants to take away your wife’s healthcare. We’d like other people’s wives to have the same care.

I just want to say that this is the first time I’ve seen an emotional argument in favor of our current system. Usually the emotional arguments come from the side that wants change–that is, “Please can we change the health care system that denied my family member the life-saving operation he or she needed.”

-They wouldn’t have to spend half their time explaining why patients need treatments to insurance companies.

Right, because as we all know, government getting involved NEVER results in a MASSIVE increase in red tape.

Yeah, no one would ever sue the government, right?

There has to be a better way.

Shorter John McNovocain: Single-payer health care? We already have that, don’t we? The person who needs health care pays, right? Through the nose.

A few other benefits for doctors $$$.

-They wouldn’t have to spend half their time explaining why patients need treatments to insurance companies. Giving them more time to actually attend to patients or play golf.
-They wouldn’t have to pay 6 people to deal with insurance company billing.
-Medical malpractice costs would lower considerably.
-They would get paid for their work. They would also get paid in a timely fashion.

As for housing in Toronto (I notice you conveniently leave out any numbers at all, again using a hysterical argument instead of one involving any thinking) if you actually search for any real data:

How does Toronto compare to other North American metropolitan areas? …

A total of 156 Metropolitan areas were surveyed, with data from 4 of them unavailable… Compared to the most expensive areas in the United States, Toronto would fall to the 13th spot, just behind Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV at $430,800 and before Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH, at $395,600. The most expensive Metropolitan Area in the United states is San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA, with an average home price of $836,800.

How does Toronto (Canada’s Largest City) compare to New York (America’s Largest City)? Well, the New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA Metropolitan Area comes in at an average home price of $469,700. Thus the Greater Toronto Area is approximatively 17.4 per cent less expensive than it’s American counterpart.

This puts aside entirely, of course, whether Toronto as the one example you give is anything like typical for Canada. But let’s not think about that.

Bob: Do you really think doctors that are making $350,000 a year are going o be happy with $100,000 in income? How will they pay their BMW’s off? How will they pay their mortgages? How will they be able to afford their country clubs?
What they will do is move out of the USA to countries where they can practice without restriction. The result will be that the best doctors will leave and new graduates from medical school will also practice elsewhere. So, how about going to India for your heart transplant or Mexico.

So you start by saying the motivation for doctors is money, and end by saying they will move to places that offer fewer restrictions on their practice. Nice switch there, Bob.

Do doctors in India or Mexico really make $350k a year? I doubt it. But I admit I don’t know for sure. you want to provide some actual facts to back that claim up, Bob, or would that require to much thinking?

Note that I’m not saying universal health care is or is not a good solution. What I am saying is your arguments are not by any stretch an example of the “SMART thinking” you advocate.

Calvin: The Democrats should pound John McBush relentlessly on this issue.

Agreed. It should be easy and they should pound relentelessly.

But for that to happen the Democrats will have to stop acting like typical Democrats…