Stop lying and provide an accurate quote. It’s no accident that, over and over again, the people attacking Obama’s candidacy leave out the word “really”, which in context means “very”. And as all honest people acknowledge, the statement was specifically about political participation.

Toss in how well Wright’s beliefs dovetail

Yeah, two African Americans displaying dismay with America. Quite a “dovetail”.

espousing opinions that not only don’t sit well with a lot of Americans, but royally piss them off.

Yes, racist Americans.

Now to be honest I can’t be certain Obama’s conversion wasn’t some carefully calculated political move. But if it is it means he is a bald faced liar, everything he stands for is probably just as calculated, and we should be worried about far more than his “judgement”. That Jerry frets over little more than judgement in the the face of such supposed behaviour reveals the same sickening cynicism we hear so often from traditional media.

Since I’d need some very strong reasons to doubt anyone’s claim of religious conversion its no surprise I find Obama’s believable, but it also jibes with my personal life. A long time agnostic I still have been fascinated with religion most of my life. I have been to a few different religious services over the years (I think my favourite was the Quakers), and while many times my interest was sort of anthropological, I still came with a real interest and an open mind. While it’s never happened to me I can see someone getting genuinely stirred in a life changing way by more than a few of those services. It really doesn’t sound so far fetched to me. I wonder what sort of disposition makes you think than anyone who says such a thing happened to them just “seeks to gain that authenticity and does so by joining this Church”.

Funny how all the people calling out ‘Sexism’ argue in a not-so-subtly racist way. i.e.: That scary dark man hates America and (clutching pearls) BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A DARK MAN TOO!

When did the conservative side of the Democratic Party start to walk, talk, and act like Republicans?

I do not believe 4,000 US soldiers have died in this year. Clearly, I can understand what you mean, but since you resort to namecalling of others who are “blissfully unaware” of the truth – it makes me realize that you shouldn’t be less than truthful in your own posts (either on purpose or by accident, right?).

Go Hawkeyes!

As an out-of-state Iowa college student, why should I vote for someone who says that I don’t deserve a vote?

If we count dead security forces regardless of nationality the number goes to over 12,000.

And Jerry, it’s time to up the Xanax, Prozac, and voltage on the electroshock treatments. Because you’re completely off your shit. 7 paragraphs complaining about vitriol followed up by “suck my cock” demonstrates some serious problems. Maybe instead of being such a tool, you should ask fafaroo to set you up with some 12 step programs (is there one for hypersensitive douchebags?).

Your original response to me was in a thread filled with vitriol towards a site and a person you have no information about. And when I defended her you told me I was being condescending.

The vitriol came after I called you condescending. Just to set the record straight.

Your original response to me was in a thread filled with vitriol towards a site and a person you have no information about. And when I defended her you told me I was being condescending.

Now, I am not a Christian, but I certainly hope and understand that Obama is a much better Christian than you.

Since Oliver apparently doesn’t mind the personal attacks, farfaroo, you sir, are a completely douchebag.

As for Obama, I will stand with many reasonable liberals who look with a skeptical eye at statements found on websites.

Frankly, Obama’s change of heart as you put it, is not quite how he puts it. He’s more honest than you. But many other liberals, not me, think of Obama’s change of heart this way: up and coming and bright politician without much “authenticity” in the Chicago African American experience seeks to gain that authenticity and does so by joining this Church.

In doing so, he aligns himself with Reverend Wright when convenient and when he needs to as a local politician and then ditches the guy when he moves into national politics and disclaims his past statements.

In the meantime, he clearly knew everything that this guy was preaching. Either he bought into it which explains the title of his book, The Audacity of Hope, or he didn’t buy into it, which is explained by his upbringing on Hawaii, where he states he was lucky to grow up in a middle class environment surrounded by cultures that he could learn about in an environment of mutual respect. (paraphrased from wiki). This explains why in Chicago he may have felt it necessary to join a church in which he disagrees with so much apparently of what the preacher had to say.

I don’t give a shit. I am not a Christian. I think he is qualified to be president. I think his judgment is questionable. Between Rezko and Wright, his judgment is questionable. You don’t like that I think his judgment is questionable? You don’t like that Merritt thinks his judgment is questionable? Who gives a shit what you think? However, your particular powers of persuasion where you start with vitriol and insult are not about to persuade anybody about Obama. But they do speak for you.

Stay out of my head, and stay out of Jeralyn’s head. You are not qualified to be an e-psychiatrist and tell us why we think what we do, or what we needed to do to get there.

I came here to wish Oliver well and share a video. I find you creeps using pseudonyms to bash a person who uses her name that you know shit about, and now I find you lording over how holier than thou you are than I. That person has clearly done far more than you have ever done to support progressive politics and to support equal rights and justice in this land regardless of race, creed, or color.

Suck my cock farfaroo whoever the fuck you are. I don’t give a shit. You’re a douchebag and from what little I know of Christianity, a very poor specimen.

Enjoy your little hatefest. Enjoy your time in AA. (You’re yet another sanctimonious AA fuck. Too bad Step 0 isn’t Stop being a sanctimonious holier than thou prick.)

You know, you really must not get it to cite this passage and then accuse me of being blinded by hate. Didn’t you read my original response? If I were to rephrase it in the light of this passage, I would have written: “I wouldn’t withdraw my good faith from some of the people I’ve met in AA because I disagreed with their politics or philosophies because each and every one of them has helped, in other ways, to keep me committed to my sobriety and so helped save my life.”

But Jeralyn is doing that to Obama, not because of what Obama believes in, but because of what Obama’s pastor believes — on some issues. Jeralyn is questioning Obama’s judgment because she doesn’t like some of his pastor’s ideas about race and politics. To do that, she had to first withdraw her good faith from Obama. Because Obama has explained himself and his opinions and his relationship with Wright. It is a human and complicated relationship that people of good faith recognize as such. And it has nothing to do with Obama’s judgment. Obama’s policies and philosophies are clear and have been influenced by what Obama found positive in Wright’s message. That should be plain as day to anyone who listens to Obama. Unless of course you first withdraw your good faith from him for your own reasons.

So one Sunday, I put on one of the few clean jackets I had, and went over to Trinity United Church of Christ on 95th Street on the South Side of Chicago. And I heard Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright deliver a sermon called “The Audacity of Hope.” And during the course of that sermon, he introduced me to someone named Jesus Christ. I learned that my sins could be redeemed. I learned that those things I was too weak to accomplish myself, He would accomplish with me if I placed my trust in Him. And in time, I came to see faith as more than just a comfort to the weary or a hedge against death, but rather as an active, palpable agent in the world and in my own life.

It was because of these newfound understandings that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity one day and affirm my Christian faith. It came about as a choice, and not an epiphany. I didn’t fall out in church, as folks sometimes do. The questions I had didn’t magically disappear. The skeptical bent of my mind didn’t suddenly vanish. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt I heard God’s spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works.

Read this passage and tell me that you believe Obama lacks good judgment because he allowed the wrong person to lead him to a deeper relationship with his God.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1546579,00.html

My Spiritual Journey — Barack Obama.

You may wish to read it, the first two pages, and then you can consider your own behavior, not mine, nor Jeralyn’s, not Clinton’s nor Obama’s.

And that night, before I went to bed, I said a prayer of my own–that I might extend the same presumption of good faith to others that the doctor had extended to me.

I find what he says true — and sadly, the typical Democrat boilerplate behavior he describes, and rejects fits you and confirms what conservatards say all the time, “there is no hate like liberal hate.” You can change fafarot. I know you can change. Yes you can. Si te puede.

I’m sorry but weren’t you just lecturing me on having no clue about something or other? I really could give a fuck about the comment policies at TL. I read and was responding to Jeralyn’s actual column which is total horseshit.

I’m sure it’s easy to defend Jeralyn’s comment policies. Who cares?

Try defending that column.

Five minutes? If you address the topic at hand in a thread and can keep from personal attacks you’ll last five years.

Now I admit I haven’t read Obama’s autobiography, so I am at a loss to understand this:

Finding Christ changed Obama’s heart and head and helped him to change his life.

Can you explain to me how he changed his life? I really haven’t heard any of this.