The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He’s drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.
Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it’s on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.
That’s how it’s done. Get on it fast and allow no wiggle room. You don’t sit on it for 5 days and say “Oh, maybe he shouldn’t have said some of those things…”
Hillary, pay attention.
I have also read, that Mr. Obama stated he didn’t know rev. Wright was like that. Yeah sure, you didn’t know Rezko was corrupted either after 20 years of a relationship. You have been exposed and so have your children to this man , who is full of hate, anti-American, anti-semetic and racist. The first time he spoke this way , you should have disassociated your self from him. If this Reverend awarded Farrakhan, we has spoken this way before.
I heard Randi Rhodes read that about an hour ago. It’s a superb response that should be studied for years to come.
Here’s the new guy, Rev. Otis Moss III.
Evidently, Mark Levin didn’t get the memo – or has chosen to ignore it. he’s on his show right now ranting about Obama’s “refusal” to denounce Wright’s remarks. What a moron!
There seems to be a cultural divide here, and as such because many do not understand the “culture of the African American Church”, they tend to demonize what snippets they’ve seen on the 6:00 news. Those who have taken the time to look outside of their culture and explore other cultures will know that Rev. Wright was not “hate mongering” and “acting hysterical” (as one MSNBC pundit described), but that its the way Black preachers preach to their congregation, especially older pastors. Obama states it well when he says that Rev. Wright is from the 60’s generation, and as such, tends to preach with the angry rhetoric of the 60’s. This is the fiery rhetoric that I grew up with when I had to go to church. I now practice spirituality and I do not espouse to any organized “religion”.
I think Jefferson was right when he said: “Say nothing of my religion. It is known to my god and myself alone.”
“And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn. The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation.”
By this time next week, they’ll be tape of Obama sitting in on one of these rant-a-riffic sermons just nodding along agreeably. And in that second, Obama’s campaign is finished. Because the “agent of change” and “a new breed of politician” doesn’t lie to cover his own a** just like all the others.
Well played, Hillary…
I do agree that its silly to try to get a politician to condemn or otherwise disassociate themselves from every bad thing that one of their supporters has said. However, I have to say, after looking at how Oliver tried to hang anything and everything Hagee said around McCain’s neck, (just do a search for Hagee on this site) his outrage at someone doing the same thing to his own guy rings awfully hollow.
This was wrong. He shouldn’t have said anything.
I don’t care if the left or the right is doing it. This “They should denounce _________ or else it means they agree with it!” is a load of political horseshit and all it does is create a climate where Obama’s affiliation or friendship or any relationship with anybody that has said something controversial is going to be questioned.
I am completely disheartened by his association with Wright as well as with Resko. After hearing several of Wright’s sermons I have been discouraged of Obama’s campaign of change. I feel he has done poor choices in associations and decisions. I don’t know if he is naive or just impulsive or what. And lastly, I regret voting for him. I have lost all respect and faith in him.
Yeah, the problem is Obama doesn’t agree with the things Wright has said (and the fantasy that any of this will hurt him is serious delusion of people who read way too many right-wing blogs), while McCain still… still… won’t renounce Hagee’s nuttiness.
Nevermind that Wright’s got the one church whereas people like Hagee, etc. are national leaders whose words are part of the conservative Republican mainstream.
Jay, well said.
I agree with Jay as well, up to a point. There is a pivotal difference, however, where McCain and Hagee are concerned (you listening, Haplo9). McCain actively sought out Hagee’s endorsement, all the while fully aware of the baggage that came with it. That’s quite a big leap from taking a hit because some guy you have some limited (or no) relationship with has, on occasion, voiced some objectionable opinions. Yeah, that sure is unfair to poor McCain.
What did he say that was racist?
Nevermind that Wright’s got the one church …
… the very church Obama attends!
Never mind that Wright taught the guy for 20 years, performed his marriage ceremony, baptized his kids, advised him personally, even provided the inspiration for his 2004 DNC speech and the title of his 2nd book. They’re practicaly strangers!!!
ferris, what do you think that says about Obama?
Enlightened Liberal,
That’s indeed the question. All the hemming and hawing from the right on Wright begs the question: do they really think Obama hates America? If so, why does NOBODY who has ever known him have those same doubts. Nobody in the Illinois State Legislature, nobody at U of Chicago Law School (lots of conservatives there), nobody on the Harvard Law Review, nobody who knew the Obamas in Chicago, nobody in the US Senate. Nobody honestly believes Obama holds Wright’s political views, which is why the right had to concoct absurd stories about flag pins.
So if it isn’t a matter of patriotism, what is it? Wright is clearly a complex man. Like many preachers, he attracts a spiritual following that does not necessarily take its political cue from him. Unless Obama is lying about never hearing these sermons, why should we assume Obama approved of them?
By this time next week, they’ll be tape of Obama sitting in on one of these rant-a-riffic sermons just nodding along agreeably. And in that second, Obama’s campaign is finished.
Oh the wonders of selective video editing!
Elrod, they do think Obama hates America, but they think that about every liberal. The purpose of the question was to follow up on Quakers unanswered question from another thread. And note that the question is STILL unanswered.
>while McCain still… still… won’t renounce Hagee’s nuttiness.
From your own links, quoth McCain:
“It’s simply not accurate to say that because someone endorses me that I therefore embrace their views.”
Now, I’m sure you will claim that that doesn’t count as renouncing Hagee’s nuttiness in the fully Oliver approved way. But the line you are trying to draw between McCain and Obama is ridiculously small and partisan. What would it take to make you feel better? McCain going through a checklist of Hagee’s crazy views and denouncing each one? Exactly the same political BS that Jay was talking about.
I feel a deep sadness here.
AS Jay says, Obama should NEVER have said anything, nor disassociated himself. He comes off weak and lame and losing, and makes people who WANTED badly to keep believing in him now question him.
It is the classic right-wing trap we saw time and time and time again when the Right attacks: Think of, for example, Bill Clinton where they caught an associate or friend in the cross hairs, like Susan McDougal, and began to turn the screws:
The trap is that if you disassociate yourself, it shows you are weak and no-account and a rat willing to throw your long-time friends, supporters, and associates under the bus to save your skin.
If you don’t, you are found guilty by association and can then be attacked for sharing the same values which you obviously MUST share or you have denounced them.
Liberal politicians are TERRIBLE at handling this kind of trap. They know the only way out is strength, and balls of steel, but STILL they apologize and cave in and think they can move on. Conservatives never apologize, never cave in, never give in and that’s why these kind of traps are trivial for them.
Here’s the right protocol: (Think of Dick Cheney or McCain in the same spot)
YES, he’s my pastor and friend.
YES, many people share his views and many people attend his church.
YES, he’s a respected minister who has done many good works with convicts, with the poor, with the community.
YES, I support him as a friend and mentor.
NOW, GO ASK HIM about his sermons, not me.
I hope Ollie’s right and this will not affect him, but I have that sick feeling I had when John McNeill, Hannity, Levin, and Limbaugh slimed and SwiftBoated John Kerry with the complicit Media.
And I hate to say it, but Hillary warned everyone that Obama would be a target-rich environment for the right, and she would be better suited to handle this absolute filthy toxic sludge and throw it back. This is just the beginning.
Hillary warned everyone that Obama would be a target-rich environment for the right, and she would be better suited to handle this absolute filthy toxic sludge and throw it back.
Haven’t seen any yet. Like the Ferraro hubub, do you mean waiting 4 days to comment on it and then not really saying anything?
Hillary isn’t exactly target-free herself.
WTF, you’re screwed if you say anything and you’re screwed if you don’t.
Obama should NEVER have said anything, nor disassociated himself. He comes off weak and lame and losing, and makes people who WANTED badly to keep believing in him now question him.
See, I disagree. If he hadn’t said anything, people would still question him. I admire him for coming out and saying something right away, forcefully and unequivocally.
What pure naivete to believe that you can bring a weapon to battle, and not expect that your opponent might also be able to use the same weapon.
Boo hoo.
“If he hadn’t said anything, people would still question him.”
And we now see that even in distancing himself from his own pastor, idiots on the right, such as farris, aren’t satisfied. “This is only the beginning!” farris suggests with his complete faith that more videos will surface of Obama swearing allegiance to Wright and Farrakhan on bended knee before burning an American flag.
One thing that gets lost in all this is that most of what Wright was saying is not crazy. Incendiary in rhetoric, yes, but crazy in substance? No.
Suggesting that 9-11 was a response by fanatics to US foreign policy is not crazy. Suggesting that 9-11 was God’s will because America doesn’t stone homosexuals in public is crazy.
Suggesting that America has a long history of racism that extends into the present is not crazy. Suggesting that the Catholic Church is “The Great Whore” and that support of Israel will hasten the coming of the End Times is crazy.
Suggesting that the black community should be self reliant and that the Bible can be the basis for rebuilding and strengthening the black community is not crazy. Suggesting that the US Constitution should be amended to bring it into conformity with “God’s standards,” as Mike Huckabee did, is crazy.
The sad thing about this episode is that the right, once again, has been allowed to define the limits of liberal speech to limit the discussion of real issues. Most of Wright’s inflammatory comments have a basis in reality. The comments of people like Falwell, Hagee and Huckabee don’t.
Ferris, two things:
1. Just because someone respects a person doesn’t mean they agree with EVERYTHING that person believes. For example, I disagree with my grandfather on many political issues, but I still love and respect him. Now, what you also need to understand is that just because you have the mentality of a 3 year old where respect = worshipping the ground they walk on, doesn’t mean that everyone else has that same mentality.
2. Seriously, Ferris, why do you hate America so much? I’ve asked this many times, but you keep running with your tail between your legs. Care to answer?
“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people,” he said in a 2003 sermon. “God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.”
Hmm. Yeah, that’s racist. It’s racist in the right-wing reframing of “racist” in which black people who complain about racism and discrimination are racist. So here I am, a black man, looking at this quote and thinking about what happened in Central America and Los Angeles in the late eighties. I’m thinking about the rise of the prison/industrial complex, and the fact that we have more people in prison than any other country on earth. I’m thinking about that JPI survey that details the truly astounding disparity between whites and blacks in state prison admissions on drug convictions. I’m thinking about how, in U.S.-occupied Afghanistan, the opium poppy crops are flourishing more than they have in years. Then I’m thinking about Central America and Los Angeles again.
Yeah- God Bless America.
There you go again, questioning people’s patriotism.
For example, I disagree with my grandfather on many political issues, but I still love and respect him.
In the case of your Grandfather, you didn’t CHOOSE to be related to him. It was simply the hand you were dealt. Wright isn’t Obama’s “crazy ol’ uncle”. Wright is a man Obama CHOSE to follow, CHOSE to lead his marriage ceremony and baptize his kids, CHOSE to name his book after one of Wright’s sermons, CHOSE to donate over $20 per year to his church.
You can still respect a person and not do all that other stuff. But Obama did. Those are not the actions you undertake with a non-relative who makes statements you “vehemently disagree” with.
What do you think that says about Obama?
You’d already know if you’ve read the half-dozen posts on the subject but since you want it boiled down to 2nd-grade level reading comprehension, here goes:
There’s two possibilites: Either Obama really does support this type of divicive, hateful rhetoric that seeks to find blame instead of work toward solutions and that his whole “uniter” stchick is just a con …
… or he knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the man he’s known, revered, donated money to, and followed for his entire adult life, seriously calling into question his judgement and intelligence.
I leave you to decide.
That’s not an answer, and you didn’t answer it before. What do YOU think that says about Obama. Not what I think, what YOU think. Frankly, your evasiveness is telling (but not surprising).
Now should anyone care what you think? You wouldn’t vote for a Democrat no matter what anyway. It really doesn’t matter what he believes, you’ll vote for anyone with a (R) after their name.
Farris, you left out another possibility; That he knows a great deal about the man (at least, far more than any of us know) and doesn’t agree with what he has said.
It is possible to like and admire someone and not agree with them 100% of the time.
THAT’S what it says about Barack.
emphasis mine.
SaveFarris: “There’s two possibilites: Either Obama really does support this type of divicive, hateful rhetoric … or he knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the man he’s known, revered, donated money to…”
Really? It’s a binary, black and white, one or the other? Really?
Is there no room in your view of personal relationships, particularly those that span decades, for gray? I love my wife, but damn if there aren’t things about her that piss me off.
There you go again, questioning people’s patriotism.
“Questioning” implies doubt. And naturally, you run away from the question again. Typical.
In the case of your Grandfather, you didn’t CHOOSE to be related to him.
No, but I choose to talk to and associate with him.
Wright isn’t Obama’s “crazy ol’ uncle”. Wright is a man Obama CHOSE to follow, CHOSE to lead his marriage ceremony and baptize his kids, CHOSE to name his book after one of Wright’s sermons, CHOSE to donate over $20 per year to his church.
Thank you for missing my point entirely. My point was how mature adults take the good with the bad in many things, including people. Instead, you argue against my choice of example. Noice work.
It is possible to like and admire someone and not agree with them 100% of the time.
This is what I was talking about.
ferris is in for a rude awakening if he hasn’t figured out that people are the sum of all their parts- some good, some bad. ferris has the childish outlook of a 4-year-old who doesn’t think his Mommy can do anything wrong. It’s going to be a rough day for him when he finds out the truth.
These aren’t petty disagreements. It’s one thing to disagree with your paster on how much to give to the church, how often to partake of the Lord’s Supper, or whether or not kids need to be taught the Bible in school. It’s quite another when the pastor hurls expletives at your country, curses during sermons, and blames Whitey for Crime, AIDS, and drugs.
Take a look at the audiences in the videos. They’re not recoiling in horror. Noone is shocked. Noone is saying “Wow, I never thought he would saying anything that incindiary!” These are NOT unexpected beliefs that Wright holds. The entire congregation is cheering Wright along. Which tells any sentient human that what he is saying ISN’T coming as a surprise to those that attend his church.
Wright holds some extreme views. And those views are directly antithetical to Obama’s stated platform of unity and togetherness. You can’t “bring red states and blue states together” if you’re taking your religious cues from a man who preaches the same type of hatred as Wright does.
In order to believe Obama’s statement from Friday, you have to swallow that
A) he somehow missed every single “controversial” sermon
AND
B) not one of his fellow church-goers said “Hey Barak, you missed a real stem-winder last week.”
Either Pastor Wright is a Marlon Brando-calibur of actor who was able to hide these opinions from Obama (and ONLY Obama) or Obama is lying when he says he had no idea what this guy was about.
“You can’t “bring red states and blue states together” if you’re taking your religious cues from a man who preaches the same type of hatred as Wright does”
So you won’t be voting for John McCain then? Or is it IOKIYAR
Take a look at the audiences in the videos. They’re not recoiling in horror. Noone is shocked.
Perhaps because to a lot of the people there, his words have a kernel of truth to them.
How’s about you go back and listen to what he said again, perhaps with your eyes closed and honestly tell me he’s completely crazy.
Who’d hav’ thunk that black people in the South Side of Chicago, many who grew up in the Jim Crow South and put up with corruption, redlining, and the urban neglect of the 1980’s would ever think something bad about America! It’s shocking I tell ‘ya!
SaveFarris: ““It’s quite another when the pastor hurls expletives at your country, curses during sermons, and blames Whitey for Crime, AIDS, and drugs.”
“God damn” is now an expletive worth noting?
I’ve seen a lot of comments about Wright lately, but actually little which quote what he actually said. Those quotes which I have seen I don’t match with the description you provide. The appear to me to be someone pulling no punches while pointing out hypocrisy and double standards. Perhaps a message we’d rather not here, but not one that doesn’t have a firm basis in the real experience of his parishioners.
SaveFarris, can you get em a link to the comments by Wright that you are particularly referring to? I’d like to see if there is more he’s said than what I’ve found so far so that I can see if I get your point of view.
Show me where McCain has attended Hagee’s church for 20 years. Show me where McCain has given over $20,000 to Hagee. Show me where Hagee baptized McCain’s children. Show me McCain’s autobiography that was inspired by one of Hagee’s sermons. Then we’ll talk.
McCain knew what Hagee has said, then actively sought out his endorsement – then refused to repudiate any of it.
SaveFarris
He never claimed he missed every “controversial” sermon. Only that he was not in church on the day Wright gave the sermon that has gotten so much airplay.
You’re misstating things either because
A) you haven’t bothered to understand what was actually said
OR
B) you’re intentionally lying to support your case.
The “Typical” Truth: You Can’t Handle It!
Blacks say “typical” white person, they mean someone that may hate black people, can’t dance, or can’t jump. Whites say “typical” black person, they mean someone that is stupid, sells drugs, or is about to mug them. Typical black parents don’t want their kids going with whites because it reminds them of discrimination that they or their grandparents faced just 50 years ago. Typical white parents don’t want their kids dating blacks because they feel that their kids could do better. Typical black person hears “typical” black person and is reminded of a few hundred years of slavery and oppression. Typical white person hears “typical white person” and just gets mad at that comment and/or starts making degrading racists comments (don’t believe me, look at the comments on this page and many others). Black pastor makes wrongful comments (and they were wrong) and whites say that they would never stand for it. White priests intentionally hide sex offenders, but still hundreds of members attend their parish. Blacks vote for black candidates, but even more whites vote for non-black candidates (take a poly sci class). Obama 08’Baby! – Don’t fear him because he’s black, because his not.