So here’s the deal, Muslim folks: give me a break. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t discuss exclusion from the world then periodically go apeshit. I’m tired of all the hardcore religious nuts in the world thinking society has to adhere to their rules and if not they throw a temper tantrum. There’s a long history of this from all sides. Everybody thinks they’re right, and in that fight they get ridiculous. You win the stupid prize this week over naming a teddy bear Muhammad. Give me a break. Please. Your God is very special to you and that’s between you and him, but to the rest of us?
We don’t care. In civil society Muhammad, God, Yahweh, Zeus, etc. are on a level playing field. You don’t get to be a part of the modern world if you’re going to flip out over stuffed animals.
I’m tired of it. Grow up.
You want “Muslim folks” to give you a break? Are you talking to the Muslim folks in Sudan? In the U.K? In the U.S.?
Look, the only people going ape about the teddy bear incident are a few rustics in Sudan. And you know what? Some of them have never seen a freakin’ teddy bear before! Believe it or not, the idea of a stuffed representation of an animal as a children’s toy is not universal.
Meanwhile, “Muslim folks” in the U.K. have made a very visible and vocal stand on behalf of the teacher–and guess what? It worked! The government of Sudan overruled the court and let the teacher go.
So now I’ll ask you to give me a break and stop writing posts that sound like Malkin parodies.
Dude, the sheer fact that people in Sudan were protesting in the streets in favor of this is a problem. I don’t care if they’ve never seen a teddy bear. This is ridiculous.
Quaker’s point, as I see it, is that you’re calling out all “Muslim folks” for going nuts over this stupid teddy bear thing, when yet again the issue is the subsect of ignorant fundies much as you find in every religion.
The teacher had support from Muslims within her own school. There are plenty of “Muslim folks” who have “grown up.” Your post doesn’t seem to acknowledge this at all, which is why Quaker is putting your post on a par with Malkin.
Well I make it clear I’m talking about the hardcore folks: “I’m tired of all the hardcore religious nuts in the world thinking society has to adhere to their rules and if not they throw a temper tantrum.”.
I put it on the same level as the people who went nuts about a portrait of the Virgin Mary that included elephant dung.
In the U.S., we equate animal dung with vile, offensive filth that should be swept out of sight.
Guess what? In some other places, animal dung is just an ordinary fact of life. You don’t wanna step in it, but the sight of it–the thought of it–isn’t the obscenity some of us “grown up” people here in the U.S. make it.
Now, I know you probably also think the people who pitched fits over the elephant dung painting were also being childish–but you wouldn’t address your complaint to “Christian folks,” would you?
Actually, I probably would have. I thought that “outrage” was dumb as well.
Slight difference, Quaker: The Dung Mary didn’t result in anyone being threatened with imprisonment, corporal punishment, or death. Nor did Piss Christ. Nor the Da Vinci Code.
A while ago, Iran sponsored a contest for the most anti-Semitic cartoons. The Jews handled it perfectly — they waited it to end, then sponsored their own contest, open only to Jews. The Jewish anti-Semitic cartoons were considerably more creative, more artistic, and more downright funny. The message: “We’re better than you. At everything. Even Jew-bashing.”
But there’s only one faith in the world whose adherents kill — or threatens to kill — over such matters as teddy bears, cartoons, utterly fictional tales of a single book ending up in a toilet, or any of a host of other manufactured outrages. If you need any more proof, look at Theo Van Gogh or Salman Rushdie. One killed for “insulting” Islam, another threatened with death — and the nation of Iran put a bounty on his head.
And the same religious laws that put that teacher’s freedom, health, and life in danger for allowing her students to name a teddy bear after one of the students who was named after the pedophile prophet also sentenced a Saudi woman to 90 lashes for the horrid crime of being gang-raped — and when she complained too strenuously about that, upped the lashings to 200.
I was relieved when one American Islamic group protested the Sudanese actions. It’s long past time these groups started seriously distancing themselves from the crazies.
In a similar vein, I welcome Oliver to the side that is actually calling the crazies crazy. He’s a little late, but that’s OK. Better late than never.
I say all the Western nations ought to pull out all aid and humanitarian workers from Sudan and other similar nations until they can offer guarantees that our people won’t be endangered by the sorts of crazies that called for this woman’s death — and legal systems that consider “blasphemy” — even of the most inadvertent and unintended sort — worthy of legal prosecution.
“Your way or the highway?” Fine. We’ll get out here, then.
J.
But there’s only one faith in the world whose adherents kill — or threatens to kill — over such matters as teddy bears, cartoons, utterly fictional tales of a single book ending up in a toilet, or any of a host of other manufactured outrages.
Oh really? Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, Mr. Tea.
the same religious laws that put that teacher’s freedom, health, and life in danger for allowing her students to name a teddy bear after one of the students who was named after the pedophile prophet
I see how it is. Actually, I thought you were a bit above such bigotry.
Guess I overestimated.
Quaker, Mohammed married his wife Aisha when she was six, but waited until she was nine to consummate the marriage. It’s in the book, dude.
I’m sorry if my calling a guy who had sex with a nine-year-old girl a pedophile offended you.
Oh, and in case you missed it, the Spanish Inquisition ended a long time ago.
Now run along and chop down the tallest tree in the forest with a herring. The grownups are trying to talk.
J.
And Christianity is a religion where if offered, one should never, ever, drink the Kool Aid.
I was relieved when one American Islamic group protested the Sudanese actions. It’s long past time these groups started seriously distancing themselves from the crazies.
I just want to respond to this, because it’s a clear example of your blind ignorance of the larger scheme.
You were relieved because you read one report of an Islamic group protesting the Sudanese actions. You further seem to assume, in your next sentence, that no Islamic groups have ever protested any other Islamic craziness, including the Van Gogh and Rushdie incidents. Why do you assume this? Because you never read any reports of any Islamic groups doing so. Ergo, you think it has not actually happened, and that up until now, perhaps the majority of Muslims have been just fine with being connected to the crazies.
And I ask you, why would the media report more than one story, once in a blue moon, about Muslims who don’t support Islamic craziness? We’re at war with those crazy Muslims! See how crazy they are? And I’ll bet you all the Muslims agree with the craziness! Because I haven’t read many reports of Muslims who disagree, that’s why!
Think a little bit about this, and maybe you should try to meet some actual Muslims, living among you.
Oh, and in case you missed it, the Spanish Inquisition ended a long time ago.
Oh, I see. “There’s only one faith in the world whose adherents kill — or threatens to kill –”…now. The fact is, Mr. Tea, Christianity has a pretty bloody history.
You want more recent than the Inquisition? The Crusades don’t float your boat? Which religion’s adherents burned and drowned witches? Who were those folks who justified slavery based on their reading of the story of Noah? How about the people who bomb clinics and shoot doctors? Which ones are they?
You wanna holler “pedophile” and use that to tar an entire faith? Get real, fool. That may not be the way we marry in our place and time. It was accepted practice in that place and time.
Face facts, Tea. You’re a bigot.
All the religions are fucking crazy. All of them. Islam is having its moment in the sun, but its not going anywhere Christianity hasn’t. Anytime people believe their way is the only way they quickly jump to do harm to anyone who isn’t on the path.
Oliver is SO close to being right. The world’s major religions all have their expansionist, conquering phase. Judaism outgrew theirs once they had the Holy Land. Christianity took a bit longer, but it’s over — the Crusades pre-date the Inquisition, by the way, they don’t follow them — but Christianity as a whole has mellowed out tremendously since then.
Yes, some used the Bible to justify slavery, but a great many of those who opposed it also used the Bible for justification — it was NOT a clear-cut case of the Christians all supporting slavery. And yes, some of those who target abortion clinics also cite the Bible, but they are rejected by the large majority of Christians.
Islam is in dire need of its own Reformation. The problem is, they tend to kill their Martin Luthers as soon as they find him. Much like the Palestinians tend to kill their Nelson Mandelas.
And just as Jordan and other Arab nations have killed far more Palestinians than Israel has, Muslims have killed far, far more Muslims than the West has. The greatest victims of radical Islam are regular Muslims — note how many places in Iraq turned on the insurgents when they tried to brutally oppress the locals in the name of Islam.
And yes, pretty much all the religions have beliefs that require a strong element of faith over reason — or, as Oliver put it, “fucking crazy.” That’s why I tend to judge religions on the basis of their adherents’ behavior. Mormons, for example, have some of the wackiest beliefs I’ve ever heard — but almost every single Mormon I’ve ever met (Harry Reid being one exception) has been decent, honest, forthright, and honorable. So I tend to respect Mormons, despite the fantastic elements of their beliefs.
And history is fine and dandy — as long as it doesn’t make you lose sight of the here and now. The Pope has NOT sent out armies to conquer in the name of Jesus in a long time, so I don’t worry about them. Jewish warriors aren’t interested in conquering any more than they already have, and “Jewish evangelist” is one of my favorite oxymorons.
But if you’re honest, you’ll admit that whenever there’s news of a religiously-inspired act of terrorism, it’s almost guaranteed that the person was not doing it for Jesus or Buddha or Moses or Joseph Smith, but Allah and Mohammed. Not always (witness the brief blaming of Muslims after the Oklahoma City bombing before Timothy McVeigh was caught), but certainly enough to make it a safe bet.
People would stop talking about “Muslim terrorists” if so many terrorists didn’t describe themselves as Muslims.
And so many Muslims didn’t rationalize and justify the terrorism, while at the same time tepidly “condemning” it.
J.
Wow. That’s one racist and bigoted rant.
Admit it everyone- when you heard about the 40ish deranged white man holding hostages in Hillary Clinton’s office in New Hampshire didn’t it cross your mind that it might be Jt?
“Racist,” EL? Just what “race” am I defaming?
And truth is an absolute defense. Tell me where I’m wrong about Islam — and its appeal to the crazies.
Oh, and “the 40ish deranged white man holding hostages in Hillary Clinton’s office in New Hampshire” turns out to have been a convicted double rapist who moved here from Massachusetts. Three cheers for Blue State Justice…
J.
If I have to explain how wrong your read is on Islam and Muslims you wouldn’t understand. Get out in the real world and maybe you’ll learn to respect people from other cultures.
Until then, you’ll just be a racist, bigoted lunatic who is only taken seriously at cesspools like Wizbang.
I’m still trying to figure out your problem with Massachusetts (whose most recent former governor is the Republican front runner). I thought it was because you can’t afford to live there, but reading your recent lunacy maybe its because of the diversity.
Yes, some used the Bible to justify slavery, but a great many of those who opposed it also used the Bible for justification — it was NOT a clear-cut case of the Christians all supporting slavery. And yes, some of those who target abortion clinics also cite the Bible, but they are rejected by the large majority of Christians.
Not like those dirty Mooslems, right Mr. Tea? All of those people want to chop the heads right off of infidels or blow up busloads of commuters.
Tea, which way will you have it? On one hand you say “Well, sure, Christianity produced some people who defended slavery and bomb clinics. But not all of ‘em are like that! You place the fault on the person, not the faith.
On the other hand, when we talk about a handful of chanters in Sudan who don’t understand what a teddy bear is, why the problem is with their religion.
There’s a word for this, Tea. Starts with B. Ends in Tea.
And you better hurry over to Malkin’s joint. It seems that the British teacher who was jailed is now the villain in this story.
Unfortunately like most people from the west you have NO clue on this. You think u know but as u cannot look at it from a muslims perspective…u fail..no wonder everyone thinks you are brainwashed. Cos u can’t think outside the box. If u so clever why don’t u answer the question of why we are here on earth. U can’t, and I don’t expect u to, cos u are limited. So u don’t understand. And if I tell u I know the answer…wow…if I really know…then u would be lost…would u understand then..probably not. Cos u are limited!