Of course the larger tragedy is that we have both mercenaries and us military in a situation in which they can literally trust no one except their own. And a civilian population that is increasingly terrified by and suspicious of the people who are there to help them.

And there people who still think we can “win” …

No.

“If they were ‘fleeing’ and they were shot, then there is a problem.”

Yes.

“Be wary of ‘Iraqi Probes’”

It’s not just the Iraqis who are saying this. And this is not an unprecedented event for Blackwater. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, but this is not the case here. This is merely part of a ongoing pattern.

Do you have a link for the video in which the people were shot? If they were “fleeing” and they were shot, then there is a problem. If they were approaching the contractors or coalition forces and would NOT STOP, then at a point you HAVE to shoot. I have not seen the video and do not know where to find it, can you provide a link.

Be wary of “Iraqi Probes”, because from personal experience I have seen that they will often make things up. I am no apologist for people who think they can inflict damage upon law-abiding citizens, but I do know that every Iraqi citizen claims to be an innocent bystander. Even those that I have personally seen shooting at coalition troops. No sooner than they are apprehended and/or wounded, they claim mistaken identity. I have personally seen Iraqi citizens keep approaching my vicinity when they were flagged to stop, and it wasn’t until the fourth step of the last EOF that I knew of, (which is a warning shot to the left or right of the vehicle) was fired until they would finally stop. Five years after the invasion you still have people, especially males between 15 and 25 (which is a glaring similarity to the foolhardiness of some American males), who seem to put their life in their own hands by deliberately not cooperating with coalition forces when it would be the safest thing to do.

Regardless of what any of us feel about the impetus, the morality, or the prosecution of this conflict, the Soldier on the ground has the inherent right to self-defense. Some have abused this, and some have gone to their graves because they second guessed themselves. Of course, this is my opinion and I speak only for myslef.

Hooray!! Welcome home, friend.

You know what? I’m going to explain this again, cause I really think you are functionally retarded.

According to what I have read, the kid was bullied constantly which is why he was home schooled.

To which you responded:

Which is why he planned the attack, which makes it relevant.

The IT here refers to the fact that he was BULLIED so much he was forced to be home schooled.

Everyone else understands that point, why can’t you?

As others have said, that’s a very big if. There are two problems here…

1.) One, Blackwater has a history of pulling this kind of shit. They even recently drew their guns on U.S. soldiers. These are not the good guys. At best, at very best, Blackwater is a necessary evil.

2.) The Iraqis have video evidence. Even if you don’t trust the government, and I sure don’t, there is more than enough evidence to show that Blackwater’s version of events is wrong.

I hope he believes you, cause I said that three times now.

He’s so obsessed with this pathetic strawman, he refuses to even read what I’m writing now.

According to what I have read, the kid was bullied constantly which is why he was home schooled.

To which you responded:

Which is why he planned the attack, which makes it relevant.

—————

You are so god damned fucking stupid I don’t know where to begin.

I said relevant. Being home schooled was relevant to the story. I never said being home schooled caused him to plan the attack.

Now shut the fuck up.

“An Iraqi probe finds Blackwater security team committed unprovoked, random killings of civilians, Iraqi spokesman says.”

What I submit is the government is corrupt. I had an Iraqi woman tell me that a patrol that came by earlier in the day had shot out of all of her windows for no reason and that she needed a claim card for reimbursement. She showed me the windows which were indeed shattered…completely….not one shard or pane left. And then she showed me the bullets that she had “picked up off the ground”. AK-47 rounds. And when I say “rounds” I mean unfired rounds.

@C.S Strowbridge,

Sorry you feel like I am a defender of murderers, but I do submit that I said “if the contractors version of events is true then they acted appropriately.” Unless you have seen up close what a VBIED can do, or have seen what an IED can do. Then you really can’t appreciate the urgent need to stop a vehicle as far away from your convoy/checkpoint/patrol base/ECP as possible. A VBIED blast can vaporize vehicles nearby, and it can shred dismounted Infantry up to 1000 meters away.

And no, we can’t trust the government. It is more biased than Saddam’s administration. At least he didn’t care so much about your religous background so long as you supported the Ba’ath party. This government is all about the Shia. They could care less about the Sunni, and the major killer of American troops is now the EFP which is used primarily bytthe Shi’ite militia, not the Sunni militia. Besides that, the Shi’ite militia (JAM in particular) is deeply entrenched in the recognized government.

Quaker,

I am back….I have been busy spoiling the kids, sunning in Miami with the wife, and downing plenty of ale in hopes of gaining some weight back. Thanks for asking.

If what the contractors maintain in their defense is true then they acted appropriately. I don’t put credence into the Iraqi (shiite) government because they still claim not to harass, kidnap, and kill Sunni’s. The Iraqi government is probably more corrupt with Saddam gone because it is now unpredictable.

Well, that’s a pretty big “if,” isn’t it? The stories we’re getting stateside say there’s quite a variety of witnesses who tell a different story. It’s impossible for me to know if you’re getting more information or less.

Is the Iraqi government reliable? Beats me, but these are the people the U.S. put into power–if we can’t trust ‘em, what the heck are we doing there? And if the current outfit is more corrupt than Saddam, well, that’s the clearest sign possible that some folks in Washington have misjudged the situation rather badly.

Does anyone remember that F/X show a couple years ago “Over There” about Iraq? I recall one episode was about this very issue (running barricades).

(And in the meantime, 30% of us back home think the situation is still workable, and if it isn’t workable, fuck these stupid Iraqis.)

No, that is NOT what you said. Again, I wrote:

According to what I have read, the kid was bullied constantly which is why he was home schooled.

To which you responded:

Which is why he planned the attack, which makes it relevant.

Now I know you’re Canadian and all, so maybe you don’t understand the English concept of verbs and nouns. You’re specifically referenced ‘it.’ What is ‘it’? ‘It’ is the home schooling. Work your way backwards: “…which makes it relevant.” Talking about the home schooling. Then, “Which is why he planned the attack…” IE, he planned the attack because he was home schooled.

If that’s not what you intended to write, fine. Admit that you screwed up and move on. But don’t try to pretend you were merely arguing that his home schooling was relevant “to the story.” The issue was whether or not his home schooling was relevant to his planned attack, ie a factor in his motivation to plan the attack and it was not.

And now that I’ve handed your ass to you again, I’ll do like I did with that other jackass Frameone, and put you on permanent ignore. I’d rather discuss these issues with some people who have brains and don’t act like big bad-asses from behind their keyboard.

Cheers dummy.

You realize people can read. You aren’t dealing with people as stupid as you.

http://www.oliverwillis.com/archives/2007/10/12/michele-cossey-is-the-worst-mo/#comments

I never blamed home schooling for the planned attack. In fact, I specifically denied that strawman attack. I said the fact that he was bullied so much he had to be home schooled was relevant to the story.

If you can’t tell the difference, you are too fucking stupid to live.

No get the fuck out of here and hang out with the Freepers. Maybe they are stupid enough to buy your bullshit.

Jay: “Yeah. The ‘evidence.’ Somebody accused. You believe. That’s enough evidence for you. What a dumbass.”

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2007/09/22/978530-iraq-blackwater-guards-fired-unprovoked

Now get killed.

Fucking video evidence.

Still think these murderers are heroes?

Me: “And you are inhuman waste who is willing to defend mass murderers because of a political ideology.”

Jay: “You’re a little coward that believes anything as long as it casts a bad light on the ideology that you hate so much.”

Yeah, you keep believing that you brainwashed idiot. Except every single time this shit happens, it turns out I have the evidence to back it up.

Are you tired of being proven wrong yet?

Idiot.

Yeah. The ‘evidence.’ Somebody accused. You believe. That’s enough evidence for you. What a dumbass.

And you are inhuman waste who is willing to defend mass murderers because of a political ideology.

You’re a little coward that believes anything as long as it casts a bad light on the ideology that you hate so much.

No go on, run away from this debate like you did the last one.

You mean the one where you got your sorry Canadian ass handed to you? That one?