Comments on: Knockout Punch Time http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/10/03/knockout-punch-time/ Like Kryptonite To Stupid Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:02:09 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: megamoze http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/10/03/knockout-punch-time/#comment-61434 megamoze Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:02:44 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5084#comment-61434 "These days, JFK 2.0 would be a Republican." Um, no. The Kennedys were and are progressives in every sense of the word. The two biggest movements of Kennedy's presidency, civil rights and the space program, were landmark progressive movements. Kennedy was squarely on the side of civil rights. He also paved the way for immigration that favored latin american countries. And his initial vision for the space program was a joint venture between the Soviets and America. Contrast any of those to modern Republican views of contempt for minorities and latin American immigrants to their "axis of evil" foreign policy sledge hammer. “These days, JFK 2.0 would be a Republican.”

Um, no. The Kennedys were and are progressives in every sense of the word. The two biggest movements of Kennedy’s presidency, civil rights and the space program, were landmark progressive movements. Kennedy was squarely on the side of civil rights. He also paved the way for immigration that favored latin american countries. And his initial vision for the space program was a joint venture between the Soviets and America.

Contrast any of those to modern Republican views of contempt for minorities and latin American immigrants to their “axis of evil” foreign policy sledge hammer.

]]> By: Dr. Victor Davis Handjob http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/10/03/knockout-punch-time/#comment-61433 Dr. Victor Davis Handjob Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:39:30 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5084#comment-61433 JFK would be a Republican for the same reason Martin Luther King would: because wingnut trolls are historical illiterates. JFK would be a Republican for the same reason Martin Luther King would: because wingnut trolls are historical illiterates.

]]> By: duros62 http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/10/03/knockout-punch-time/#comment-61432 duros62 Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:55:24 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5084#comment-61432 <i>a growing perception among voters that she would best represent change.</i> See, I don't see that at ALL. The only change she represents in Washington is gender. <i>Edwards has also had to suffer from media hostility, but the best counter to that is offensive press operations. </i> Another plus for Barack. When he takes shit in the press, his campaign responds swiftly and strongly. I think that if Barack wins big in Iowa, it will shake the MSM out of their stupor and get them to realize that Hillary isn't inevitable quite yet. (Though I don't fool myself of a big win.) <i> Duder said: Gore, bitches! </i> Okay, pal. Go back to sleep. a growing perception among voters that she would best represent change.

See, I don’t see that at ALL. The only change she represents in Washington is gender.

Edwards has also had to suffer from media hostility, but the best counter to that is offensive press operations.

Another plus for Barack. When he takes shit in the press, his campaign responds swiftly and strongly.
I think that if Barack wins big in Iowa, it will shake the MSM out of their stupor and get them to realize that Hillary isn’t inevitable quite yet. (Though I don’t fool myself of a big win.)

Duder said:
Gore, bitches!

Okay, pal. Go back to sleep.

]]> By: mike in dc http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/10/03/knockout-punch-time/#comment-61431 mike in dc Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:37:01 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5084#comment-61431 obstacle #1 for Obama and Edwards: too many other candidates left in the race/debates. Biden and Dodd need to drop out, and Gravel needs to be excluded from at least one debate. obstacle #2: each other. They're both competing for the anti-Hillary vote, so inevitably, in order for one to have a chance to win that way, the other will have to drop out(I'm looking your way, John Edwards). obstacle #3: the MSM narrative--the only hope is that they get bored of talking about how inevitable she is, and actually do some investigative journalism. obstacle #4: the Dem electorate's rose-colored glasses on the previous Clinton administration. Full disclosure: I didn't vote in 1996, partially because I was disappointed with Bill Clinton. I thought I was voting for a progressive, but I was apparently mistaken. I won't make that mistake again--even if I vote for Hillary in 2008, I'm highly unlikely to support her in 2012, even if Dick Cheney is on the GOP ticket. obstacle #5: the notion that attacking Hillary too forcefully will backfire. I don't know if that's always true. Plus, if nobody launches a serious attack on her during the primaries, how will we know whether she's really capable of parrying the strong negative attacks she'll encounter in the general? And, no, dealing with it as first lady and as senator isn't the same as dealing with it as a presidential candidate. obstacle #1 for Obama and Edwards:
too many other candidates left in the race/debates. Biden and Dodd need to drop out, and Gravel needs to be excluded from at least one debate.
obstacle #2: each other. They’re both competing for the anti-Hillary vote, so inevitably, in order for one to have a chance to win that way, the other will have to drop out(I’m looking your way, John Edwards).
obstacle #3: the MSM narrative–the only hope is that they get bored of talking about how inevitable she is, and actually do some investigative journalism.
obstacle #4: the Dem electorate’s rose-colored glasses on the previous Clinton administration. Full disclosure: I didn’t vote in 1996, partially because I was disappointed with Bill Clinton. I thought I was voting for a progressive, but I was apparently mistaken. I won’t make that mistake again–even if I vote for Hillary in 2008, I’m highly unlikely to support her in 2012, even if Dick Cheney is on the GOP ticket.
obstacle #5: the notion that attacking Hillary too forcefully will backfire. I don’t know if that’s always true. Plus, if nobody launches a serious attack on her during the primaries, how will we know whether she’s really capable of parrying the strong negative attacks she’ll encounter in the general? And, no, dealing with it as first lady and as senator isn’t the same as dealing with it as a presidential candidate.

]]> By: SpiderJ http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/10/03/knockout-punch-time/#comment-61430 SpiderJ Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:19:22 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5084#comment-61430 How would JFK 2.0 be a Republican? Please elaborate, because I'm not quite seeing it. How would JFK 2.0 be a Republican? Please elaborate, because I’m not quite seeing it.

]]> By: T_Buck http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/10/03/knockout-punch-time/#comment-61429 T_Buck Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:43:32 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5084#comment-61429 These days, JFK 2.0 would be a Republican. What MoveOn-style Democrats are really looking for is Henry Wallace 2.0. But, you're right, the larger base of the party will settle for Hillary 2.0. These days, JFK 2.0 would be a Republican. What MoveOn-style Democrats are really looking for is Henry Wallace 2.0. But, you’re right, the larger base of the party will settle for Hillary 2.0.

]]> By: Duder http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/10/03/knockout-punch-time/#comment-61428 Duder Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:10:36 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5084#comment-61428 Gore, bitches! Gore, bitches!

]]> By: Oliver Willis http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/10/03/knockout-punch-time/#comment-61427 Oliver Willis Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:36:04 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5084#comment-61427 The right has in the past effectively used the mantra of "Annoy the media, vote for X". Should Sen. Clinton be the nominee, I think there's gold to be mined by discussing the idea of "Drive Rush Limbaugh insane, vote for Hillary Clinton". I know that if she's the nom, I look to the day of her inauguration as a second Christmas in which I would do nothing but listen to Limbaugh, watch Fox, and read right-wing bloggers for 24 hours straight just to dip into the insanity and rage. The right has in the past effectively used the mantra of “Annoy the media, vote for X”. Should Sen. Clinton be the nominee, I think there’s gold to be mined by discussing the idea of “Drive Rush Limbaugh insane, vote for Hillary Clinton”. I know that if she’s the nom, I look to the day of her inauguration as a second Christmas in which I would do nothing but listen to Limbaugh, watch Fox, and read right-wing bloggers for 24 hours straight just to dip into the insanity and rage.

]]> By: megamoze http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/10/03/knockout-punch-time/#comment-61426 megamoze Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:32:33 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5084#comment-61426 I agree. They will flip-flop instantly on all of the authoritarian anti-civil liberty crap they were more than happy to bestow upon Bush. And they will do so as if the last eight years never happened, wi. And it will up to the Dems to go with them on it. I just hope Hillary is willing to give that sort of power up. I'm not entirely convinced. I agree. They will flip-flop instantly on all of the authoritarian anti-civil liberty crap they were more than happy to bestow upon Bush. And they will do so as if the last eight years never happened, wi.

And it will up to the Dems to go with them on it. I just hope Hillary is willing to give that sort of power up. I’m not entirely convinced.

]]> By: merlallen http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/10/03/knockout-punch-time/#comment-61425 merlallen Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:00:35 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5084#comment-61425 I cannot wait until the frightwingers start screaming about the Patriot Act and the Unitary Executive or wiretapping when she is elected. My FIL will be sputtering in rage while I laugh my ass off. That's the only reason to vote for her. I cannot wait until the frightwingers start screaming about the Patriot Act and the Unitary Executive or wiretapping when she is elected. My FIL will be sputtering in rage while I laugh my ass off.
That’s the only reason to vote for her.

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