The thousands of people in Jena today show to me that the anti-war movement has lots to learn and that nobody is as organized on the left as civil rights organizations. Period.
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It kills me that people are actually comparing this to Selma.
6 kids beat the shit out of one kid and yet somehow there’s an injustice going on because the perps were black and the victim was white. What kind of crazy freaking world do we live in?
I gotta agree with Jay on this one. I doubt King would be proud to defend the Jena 6, who did exactly what King refused to do when confronted with ugly racism–reacted with violence, and on somebody possibly innocent of any wrongdoing.
How are the actions of the Jena 6 a victory for civil rights and a blow against racism? I’ll bet you double or nothing that this just confirmed, in the minds of some people, that blacks are dangerous and violent and would kill all the whiteys if given the chance.
Also: it’s going to be easier to get an anti-racism rally together than it is an anti-war rally, because we’ve hit that plateau, as a society, where most of us can agree, without conditions, that Racism Is Bad.
We haven’t hit that point with War.
Oliver,
I read your blog on a regular basis, and agree with you on most things, but I have to go with the other commenters on this one. Obviously there continues to be a problem with racism in the deep south and in Jena in particular. The existence of a defacto “whites only” tree, the hanging of nooses in that tree shortly thereafter, and the overall behavior of the town all point to this.
But the foundation for this particular march is a 6 on 1 fight that ended with the one kid in the hospital. A fight that came close to ending in death. Again, 6 on 1. Regardless of the circumstances, it’s hard to look on that and not feel sympathy for the victim.
It can be argued (and should, IMO) that the sentences were excessive and the trials may have been mishandled, but that is something that should (and hopefully is) be fought in the courts – not with grandstanding, threats, mob rule and comparisons to a movement with a far greater and nobler basis than this one could ever hope to aspire to.
Please keep up the good work, with hopes that the situation is Jena is quickly resolved so this nation can continue with its slow march towards true equality.
“It kills me that people are actually comparing this to Selma.
6 kids beat the shit out of one kid and yet somehow there’s an injustice going on because the perps were black and the victim was white. What kind of crazy freaking world do we live in?”
Do you even know what you are talking about?
Some black kids sit under a tree that was ‘reserved’ for white kids.
The next day nooses were hanging from the tree.
The black students protest.
The White D.A. threatens them saying that he could, ‘end their lives with a stroke of his pen.’
White kid gets beat up.
D.A. charges the black kids with ATTEMPTED MURDER and charges them as adults.
——-
If you can’t see this is obviously an issue of race, you are blind.
beat the shit out of one kid
But the foundation for this particular march is a 6 on 1 fight that ended with the one kid in the hospital.
He went to the hospital and was released the same night, even attending a school function. For this, six kids were arrested and charged with attempted murder. One child still remains in jail because his bail was placed at slightly less than O.J. Simpson’s.
What kind of crazy freaking world do we live in?
One where that happens while no charges are ever filed against any of the white students who committed the hate crime that instigated the fight in the first place.
“But the foundation for this particular march is a 6 on 1 fight that ended with the one kid in the hospital. A fight that came close to ending in death. Again, 6 on 1. Regardless of the circumstances, it’s hard to look on that and not feel sympathy for the victim.”
If that 1 white kid was the person who put those nooses up, they could have killed him and I would not have felt any sympathy. Hell, they could have tied him up to that tree and shot him execution style and I would have donated to their defence fund.
Jay:
You gentlemen have a very incomplete picture of what happened.
Spider J:
Attempted murder for a school brawl when there was no punishment for threatening the Black students with a shotgun, or beating up the Black student who showed up at an all-white party.
THAT is what is being protested.
The Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law, and against cruel and unusual punishment. THAT is what is being demanded.
Dr. King would be there today if he were alive. But then a lot of things might be different had he not been killed, don’t you think?
Carl, I didn’t miss you. Hopefully you see you’ve been underinformed.
First of all, the charges have been reduced. Nobody is facing attempted murder charges anymore.
Second of all, as I pointed out, the prosecutor said that there was nothing to charge the white kids with. People can call it a “hate crime” but if there’s no preceding law under which to prosecute, what can they do? Don’t like it. Tell Sharpton to protest at Kathleen Blanco’s office.
Third, the notion that because the kid was released from the hospital that night somehow negates the seriousness of what those kids did is laughable. If I point a loaded gun at you and it fails to go off, I’m still guilty of attempted murder because of my intent. The fact that this kid was released from the hospital that night only means he did a good job covering his face or else it would have been worse.
Fourth, authorities have said that the two incidents are not even linked. The noose incident happened in August. The beatdown happened in December. So to claim that they were ‘instigated’ by the noose issue is absurd. What, it takes 6 guys four months to exact some revenge?
If that 1 white kid was the person who put those nooses up, they could have killed him and I would not have felt any sympathy. Hell, they could have tied him up to that tree and shot him execution style and I would have donated to their defence fund.
Great. That’s real mature.
“First of all, the charges have been reduced. Nobody is facing attempted murder charges anymore.”
“If I point a loaded gun at you and it fails to go off, I’m still guilty of attempted murder because of my intent.”
Jesus Christ, you are a hypocrite.
On the one hand, the outcome matters, not the intent. Massive prosecutorial misconduct is no issue because the appeals court took care of it.
On the other hand, only the intent matters. Six black youths beat up a kid, who is left with injuries so mild that he doesn’t even have to stay overnight in a hospital, yet that’s attempted murder.
(On a side note, it was 6 to 1. If they wanted to kill him, they would have.)
“Second of all, as I pointed out, the prosecutor said that there was nothing to charge the white kids with.”
He also said he’s end the lives of the blacks kids with a stroke of his pen. The fucker is obviously racist.
“Fourth, authorities have said that the two incidents are not even linked. The noose incident happened in August. The beatdown happened in December. So to claim that they were ‘instigated’ by the noose issue is absurd. What, it takes 6 guys four months to exact some revenge?”
There were other incidents in the meantime, which you would have known about had you done the research, like following the link posted in this thread.
But no, if you learned something, if might become impossible to justify your position. Can’t have that, can we?
“Great. That’s real mature.”
Fuck you, Jay. It’s not a matter of maturity. It’s a matter of recognizing that some people are not worth shedding a tear over. Racist assholes fall into that category.
great jay, no one is facing attempted murder charges. instead we’ve got a teenager facing aggravated battery charges and up to 22 years in prison because his tennis shoes were considered “deadly weapons.”
great jay, no one is facing attempted murder charges. instead we’ve got a teenager facing attempted battery charges because his tennis shoes were considered “deadly weapons.”
also, i don’t care how well somebody covers their face, anyone assaulted by 6 teenagers attempting to commit murder will suffer much, much worse injuries than Justin Barker did. a mild concussion and a black/swollen eye? please, i’ve seen worse injuries in pick up basketball games.
Massive prosecutorial misconduct is no issue because the appeals court took care of it.
Oh please. Charges are often filed and then reduced afterwards pending new information. This is nothing new, so give misconduct crap a rest.
On the other hand, only the intent matters. Six black youths beat up a kid, who is left with injuries so mild that he doesn’t even have to stay overnight in a hospital, yet that’s attempted murder.
He was beaten to the point of unconsciousness! And it’s not just all about intent. Recklessness, depraved indifference, gross negligence, etc. can all lead to murder charges.
On a side note, it was 6 to 1. If they wanted to kill him, they would have.
You don’t have to ‘want’ to murder somebody in order to do so.
He also said he’s end the lives of the blacks kids with a stroke of his pen. The fucker is obviously racist.
The statement was made at a school assembly and was directed at all the students. The only thing that’s obvious is your willingness to just believe whatever fits your point of view.
Fuck you, Jay.
Stunning.
It’s not a matter of maturity. It’s a matter of recognizing that some people are not worth shedding a tear over. Racist assholes fall into that category.
Who said to shed tears? You’re taking the position that murder is a justifiable reaction to racism. You’re right. It’s not about maturity. Such a position isn’t immature. It’s nucking futs is what it is.
Jay:
Only because of the protests. And even so, the local judges are saying it’s “too soon” for a new bail hearing.
There was the shotgun threat…what was it you said:
The nooses, the shotgun, the declaration their lives could be ended with the stroke of a pen…is is literally terrorism against the Black community by the local “justice” system. Of COURSE there’s “nothing to charge them with.” They are in total accord with the mainstream community.
They are lying. Not even mistaken. There has been an ongoing series on conflicts that started with the noose hangings. Do you need them documented?
Jay?
Only because of the protests.
Says who?
And even so, the local judges are saying it’s “too soon” for a new bail hearing.
Yeah, for Bell, who just happens to have four previous convictions on his record.
There was the shotgun threat
I thought we were talking about nooses?
the declaration their lives could be ended with the stroke of a pen
Again, it was delivered to an entire assembly of students, not to any black students in particular.
They are lying.
Oh and you know this because…..?
Please let me know when you will start dealing with facts and only facts. Not your suppositions.
So after reading a bit more on this, here’s where I’ve landed:
1) The justice and social strata in Jena are fucked up. This is worth protesting.
2) A bunch of racist white kids made unveiled threats to the black community and have thus far escaped punishment. This is worth protesting.
3) The end result of this is that the racial tension in Jena has hit a boiling point not unlike the days before race riots explode. This is worth protesting and attempting to quell.
At the same time, I have little use for statements that try to forgive the Jena 6 because they failed to kill the student they were beating the hell out of, or even kept him in the hospital overnight, because I find that position to be inconsistent with my views on things like torture.
If I believe, for example, that waterboarding is horrendous even though it leaves no physical marks and requires no bandages or casts to heal, then I cannot find a point on the spectrum where a “mild” beatdown into unconsciousness is acceptable.
People die accidentally all the time during physical altercations, regardless of intent. (People die during friendly football games, fer Godsakes.) That the white victim of the attacks was not is lucky for all seven involved, but only lucky…I doubt that the group of six students was in any rational state to determine that they would or would not kill the boy.
Jay slimed:
If I point a loaded gun at you and it fails to go off, I’m still guilty of attempted murder because of my intent.
#1 – back off the meds, troll-boy.
#2 – So, when a white guy pointed a loaded shotgun at three of the six black youths in a convenience store, and they disarmed him and turned the gun in to the cops, the white guy should have been charged with attempted murder too?
Funny thing – the white guy was not charged with anything, but the black kids were charged with assault and battery and armed robbery.
This article states:
A series of racially motivated incidents followed. In October, a black student was beaten for entering an all-white party in the city. Police were reportedly quoted having said, “Get your black asses outta this part of town.” On Nov. 30, Jena High School was shut down after a fire was started.
The next day, a white male holding a loaded shotgun approached three young black men at “Gotta Go,” a convenience store in town. The victims wrestled the gun away and turned it into the police. They were arrested and charged with assault, battery and armed robbery.
smarter Reich wingnut ditto monkeys, please…
What SpiderJ said.
smarter Reich wingnut ditto monkeys, please…
Gee, that’s original.
Yeah, I think the kids should be prosecuted for assault, not attempted murder. I doubt they would have been charged like that if they were white kids.
Classic jay all the way around. Let me ask you jay, cuz i can’t remember, are you in favor of hate crimes legislation?
Fourth, authorities have said that the two incidents are not even linked. The noose incident happened in August. The beatdown happened in December. So to claim that they were ‘instigated’ by the noose issue is absurd. What, it takes 6 guys four months to exact some revenge?
You’re kidding me, aren’t you Jay? Riddle me this: what else happened druing the four months between the two events? Anything that just might tie those two events together?
Jay:
Now that you’ve heard, understood and been insulted by (: Tom
, I repeat:
Attempted murder for a school brawl when there was no punishment for threatening the Black students with a shotgun, or beating up the Black student who showed up at an all-white party.
THAT is what is being protested.
The Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law, and against cruel and unusual punishment. THAT is what is being demanded.
No one says there weren’t issues to be addressed. And I said you have an incomplete picture because I’ve seen the CNN’s coverage and Fox hasn’t covered it at all, so you likely just heard of it yesterday.
You and Spider J assumed the worst motivations, right off the top. And it’s good you both heard the comments here…but it’s bad that you had to.
P6, I disagree about what is being protested in part. If those protesting want to force the hands of local prosecutors to go after the kid involved in the shotgun incident, fine. If they think more serious charges should be filed against the kid who was involved in the fight at the party, fine.
But to say that these six kids should be released or that they just should have been given probation is absurd. Let’s remember something: They beat another person until he was unconscious. People are trying to mitigate what they did because the guy was released from the hospital later that night. So what? This wasn’t your typical high school fist fight where somebody might come away with a bloody nose or a black eye.
But to say that these six kids should be released or that they just should have been given probation is absurd.
Why is it absurd, Jay? That’s precisely what the school board and local courts decided was fair for the white students involved.
“This wasn’t your typical high school fist fight where somebody might come away with a bloody nose or a black eye.”
Except of course it sounds like this is exactly what the guy walked away with.
And Quaker’s point is exactly right. The authorities involved DID NOTHING when white students threatened and attacked black kids. But when protesters ask for the same indulgence be granted the black students all of a sudden idiots claim an absolute need to punish them no matter what they actually did. You’ll note that no one is calling for the black kids to be released in isolation. It’s always in the context of how the white kids were treated for similar acts:
“I hope that the D.A. will wake up and realize that he’s doing the wrong thing, and to release these kids,” she said. “It’s not equal. The black people get the harsher extent of the law, whereas white people get a slap on the wrist per se. So it is not equal here.”
That’s precisely what the school board and local courts decided was fair for the white students involved.
Oh wait. S’cuse me. My mistake. None of them even went to court, did they?
“This wasn’t your typical high school fist fight where somebody might come away with a bloody nose or a black eye.”
Except of course it sounds like this is exactly what the guy walked away with.
And Quaker’s point is exactly right. The authorities involved DID NOTHING when white students threatened and attacked black kids. But when protesters ask for the same indulgence be granted the black students all of a sudden idiots claim an absolute need to punish them no matter what they actually did. You’ll note that no one is calling for the black kids to be released in isolation. It’s always in the context of how the white kids were treated for similar acts:
“I hope that the D.A. will wake up and realize that he’s doing the wrong thing, and to release these kids,” she said. “It’s not equal. The black people get the harsher extent of the law, whereas white people get a slap on the wrist per se. So it is not equal here.”
That’s precisely what the school board and local courts decided was fair for the white students involved.
Oh wait. S’cuse me. My mistake. None of them even went to court, did they?
hmmm double post … sry
Right.
Jay, you say you’d support going after the guy with the shotgun, but given that the people that were threatened were charged with assault and robbery for disarming the threat, they obviously will not do it.
Threats of death by juveniles are obviously acceptable under the law in Jena.
Equal protection under the law, whatever the law is, is what’s called for. The options are:
Logically these are equal options for the provision of equal protection in this case. Numbers one and two, or number three.
We know option one ain’t going to happen. Only a fool would suggest holding one’s breath for that, and only a bigger fool would do it. And, of course, the perfect is the enemy of the good, right?
P6/Everyone
This is the power and problem of blogs. A lot of additional information over traditional media, but a lot of additional emotion as well.
I wasn’t aware of the shotgun incident, and if the focus is indeed on the overall judicial system in that area then hopefully some good will come of this. However, two wrongs don’t make a right and this is a serious crime that deserves to be tried accordingly.
And I still have trouble with the comparisons to Selma. This isn’t about overall civil rights, this is about a series of very specific instances in a very specific area. There are a lot of other problems with civil rights in this country, but they shouldn’t be projected onto a group of kids (black and white) that should have known better.
Reading this thread, one of the things I’m curious about is whether the appeal process to get Bell (?) tried as a juvenile happened before or after the massive protests. The protests seem to have hit the mainstream today (not saying there hasn’t been protest prior to now, just that today seems to have been the boiling point), while the actions of the higher courts certainly happened prior to now. If that’s the case, then I consider it proof that the system is still working (albeit at a slower pace than it should.)
If the focus of the protests stays on the corrupt local judicary and the lack of hate crime legislation for the region, then a lot of good can come of it. If it goes into a “tit-for-tat” direction and focuses on freeing these kids, I worry that it’s only going to increase the racial divide.
There’s a lot of really good information and argument here, and I’m looking forward to reading more in the days ahead. Good luck to everyone.
Jay said:
smarter Reich wingnut ditto monkeys, please…
Gee, that’s original.
Almost as original as someone trying to excuse racially motivated and racially biased activity by the local authorities.
In no way am I excusing any of the assaults that took place. It appears to me that there was a clear difference in the treatment of the perps, based on their race. It also appears to me that the apparent bias might have contributed to escalating the situation.
Sorry if you can’t handle the insults. You sure do seem to make a lot of them yourself, though – including similar statements to me regarding the need to monitor my medications in previous comment threads. And I won’t fold like a Democrat faced with a Republican’t filibuster threat. Especially when I see no regrets, or even consideration of the possibility of, racially biased activities by the law, in any of your comments. Or any willingness on your part to debate those arguments. Just more of the standard Republican’t dodges.
“If it goes into a “tit-for-tat” direction and focuses on freeing these kids, I worry that it’s only going to increase the racial divide.”
This kind of response misses the mark entirely. What you’re saying is that if these 6 kids get let go it will upset the whites. Of course upsetting whites would just be horrible so once again, blacks should just accept unequal treatment under the law in the name of racial harmony.
“What you’re saying is that if these 6 kids get let go it will upset the whites. Of course upsetting whites would just be horrible so once again, blacks should just accept unequal treatment under the law in the name of racial harmony.
Of course not. They shouldn’t accept unequal treatment, they should attack the CAUSE of the unequal treatment so it doesn’t happen in the future, and in the meantime not make a bad situation worse by doing the same thing.
Exactly. Once again, the black community should just be patient and let the political process work because we all know that getting hate crime legislation passed in Louisiana will be a snap. So then next time a white student threatens a black student with lynching, maybe, just maybe, someone will do something then.
And of course we know that we can expect the full support of conservatives in pushing for a hate crimes law, right Jay?
Please. Equal treatment, deferred again.
“… in the meantime not make a bad situation worse by doing the same thing.”
How exactly does asking for equal treatment for these six teens make the situation worse? What would make the siutation worse if the black community was asking for SPECIAL treatment. Like the teens should be freed and all given ice cream, or something.
“Once again, the black community should just be patient and let the political process work because we all know that getting hate crime legislation passed in Louisiana will be a snap.”
No, it will require hard work. But it’s a worthy goal. Endorsing violence as justification will just lead to more violence.
And of course we know that we can expect the full support of conservatives in pushing for a hate crimes law, right Jay?
It’s possible that Jay’s conservative, but I’m not picking that up from his postings. Good point spoiled by name calling. Of course conservatives won’t help, that’s what progressives are for.
“Endorsing violence as justification will just lead to more violence.”
I’m sorry but how is asking that the black teens be treated the same as the white teens constitute an endorsement of violence?
And I’m glad to here that identifying someone as a conservative is now tantamount to “name calling.”
“I’m sorry but how is asking that the black teens be treated the same as the white teens constitute an endorsement of violence?”
The white kids got off even though they acted in a violent manner. By suggested that the black kids get off scot-free for acting the same way (actually, worse) you are saying it’s ok to be violent because the other guys got away with it. It’s not, and saying they should sends the wrong message at precisely the wrong time.
And I’m glad to here that identifying someone as a conservative is now tantamount to “name calling.”
I didn’t see Jay saying he was against a hate crime, which seemed to be the insinuation when you attached his name to the end of your statement. As for conservative being a dirty word, well, it certainly is in my house.
If you meant it as a complement, my mistake.
Gotta go now, might check in later tonight. Peace to everyone.
That’s what I get for not using the Preview button…
I didn’t see Jay saying he was against a hate crime
should be
I didn’t see Jay saying he was against hate crime legislation…
“By suggested that the black kids get off scot-free for acting the same way (actually, worse) you are saying it’s ok to be violent because the other guys got away with it.”
Ok. Here it is. The community standard already condones violence. The catch is that the community only condones violence for white kids not for black kids. Black kids go to jail when they threaten and assault someone. You are asking these black kids to accept that standard in a noble gesture, not in the hopes that some other black kids, on down the road, will be set free for beating someone, but that some white kid might actually have to face the consequences of his actions as well. I’m sure you can see how utterly frustrating that might be to a community that’s already seen its children threatened with lynching.
The new multicultural (One country with multiple cultures) version of the United States that is replacing the old pluralistic (Multiple cultures become one country) version that did silly things like protect the world, fight for the weak, and feed the hungry is in for a tough fight.
Get used to this new kind of interfacing with hyphenated Americans, because “we” (non-hyphenated Americans) are only seeing the early warning signs of this media inspired movement.
Cultural Division is a failed prospect and the current state of affairs for our culturally divided nation is going end in a wicked quagmire of urban sprawl and enhanced inner city violence.
“Jena 6″ is an insignificant symbol that multiculturists will use as the battle cry for the fight ahead so make sure you watch out for your kids safety because Rev’s Sharpton and Jackson and the media are out for blood (just remember that all non-hyphenated Americans have that color in common).
How exactly does asking for equal treatment for these six teens make the situation worse?
Equal treatment? The constitution provides for equal protection under the law.
We don’t have two different incidents with 6 white kids beating up a black kid and getting slaps on the wrist and the 6 black kids who beat up a white kid getting treated more harshly.
We have this shotgun incident, for which nobody has details, except for what has been reported by the media. We have a fight at a party where one kid was charged with battery. There are claims that somebody was hit with a beer bottle, but nothing was substantiated.
What galls me is the “Oh big deal!” attitude certain people here have towards six kids who stomped on a kids head to the point where he was knocked unconscious, had one of his eyes swollen shut, and had blurred vision plus headaches. They should be freed because they reached conclusions based on assumptions that every other thing they’ve read about these other incidents is 100% true.
Unreal man.
Great American, your wit is matched only by your modesty.
Are you really suggesting that it was the “hyphenated Americans” who marginalized themselves from the dominant culture? And that it was the media that made them do it?
Read a book, read a book, read a m***erf***in book!
Me: Massive prosecutorial misconduct is no issue because the appeals court took care of it.
Jay: Oh please. Charges are often filed and then reduced afterwards pending new information. This is nothing new, so give misconduct crap a rest.
A D.A. said he would end their lives with a stroke of a pen after they processed. But when a black youth was beat up no charges were brought up. The D.A.s are obviously racist, why can’t you see that?
Me: On the other hand, only the intent matters. Six black youths beat up a kid, who is left with injuries so mild that he doesn’t even have to stay overnight in a hospital, yet that’s attempted murder.
Jay: He was beaten to the point of unconsciousness!
He was in the hospital for less than a day. If he even had a concussion, he should have stayed overnight for observations.
Jay: And it’s not just all about intent. Recklessness, depraved indifference, gross negligence, etc. can all lead to murder charges.
Changing your story? By the way, none of those fit with this case.
Me: On a side note, it was 6 to 1. If they wanted to kill him, they would have.
Jay: You don’t have to ‘want’ to murder somebody in order to do so.
There was no murder. There was nothing that was close to murder. … Except for that white guy who pointed a shotgun at three black youths. That was closer to murder.
Me: He also said he’s end the lives of the blacks kids with a stroke of his pen. The fucker is obviously racist.
Jay: The statement was made at a school assembly and was directed at all the students. The only thing that’s obvious is your willingness to just believe whatever fits your point of view.
White man pulls a gun on black students = no charges.
White youths beat up a black youth = no charges
Black youths beat up a white youth = Murder charges
If you don’t see the racism there, it is intentional.
Me: It’s not a matter of maturity. It’s a matter of recognizing that some people are not worth shedding a tear over. Racist assholes fall into that category.
Jay: Who said to shed tears? You’re taking the position that murder is a justifiable reaction to racism. You’re right. It’s not about maturity. Such a position isn’t immature. It’s nucking futs is what it is.
What these people were doing to these blacks youths was terrorism. Now you are saying you can’t use deadly force in the face of terrorism?
That seems mighty strange.
“The constitution provides for equal protection under the law.”
Um, yeah jay. I believe that would include equal protection from excessive bail and punishment. Idiot.
A D.A. said he would end their lives with a stroke of a pen after they processed.
You are seriously misinformed. The “stroke of the pen” comment was made at the high school during an assembly with all of the students present. It was not made to the 6 kids in specifically.
He was in the hospital for less than a day. If he even had a concussion, he should have stayed overnight for observations.
Great, so beating people up to the point of unconsciousness is a-ok with you just so long as they don’t have to spend the night in the hospital. The mind boggles.
Changing your story? By the way, none of those fit with this case
Let’s see. Stomping on a kids head until he’s knocked out. That’s not reckless or grossly negligent? Okayyyyy.
There was no murder. There was nothing that was close to murder
I didn’t say there was. YOU said that if they ‘wanted’ to kill him, they could have. People kill people all the time without ‘wanting’ to. Do you agree that had it not been broken up, that young man could have been killed? Yes or no?
White youths beat up a black youth = no charges
Actually it was one white youth and he was charged with battery. And the victim in that case suffered no injuries.
What these people were doing to these blacks youths was terrorism. Now you are saying you can’t use deadly force in the face of terrorism?
Terrorism is an ongoing thing. If this was an ongoing thing, then sure, I could see violence being acceptable in the face of such behavior. But the way you’re responding, if my neighbor, who is Jewish, finds a swastika painted on his mailbox and learns who did it, he’s justified in killing that person, even if it was an isolated incident.
Um, yeah jay. I believe that would include equal protection from excessive bail and punishment. Idiot.
What in the world are you babbling about? Equal protection would be in jeopardy if the same crime was committed by six white youths against a black youth and they were released with minimal bail and charged with say, simple assault. You can’t go off spouting about “equal treatment” (whatever the hell that means) when their aren’t similar cases at hand to discuss.
Jay,
The white kids committed a series of crimes from threatening black students to physical assault. You’re opposed to hate crimes legislation that would make terrorizing someone with the threat of lynching a crime and you don’t think threatening to kill someone or physically assaulting them is all that big a deal when white kids do it. i love it that you think there has to be absolute symmetry between two crimes for unequal protection to come into play. But then again since you obviously live in a fantasy world, i guess it’s easy to see why you’d think life works that way.
and i’d like to add, you keep repeating “OMG THEY KNOCKED HIM UNCONSCIOUS” as if high school students don’t regularly kick the shit out of each other to this degree over stuff that has nothing to do with race all the time. I’m not mitigating the assault but you’re obviously playing it up because it suits your agenda. So to, does diminishing what the white kids did to terrorize the black kids over a series of months. All this because you’re opposed to hate crimes legislation. That’s great, jay. awesome.
and you don’t think threatening to kill someone or physically assaulting them is all that big a deal when white kids do it.
And you hate puppy dogs, ice cream and the United States of America.
I figure if you’re going to make shit up (I wonder what took so long), I’ll just make shit up as well.
i love it that you think there has to be absolute symmetry between two crimes for unequal protection to come into play.
What the hell do you think equal protection means moron?
Here’s a couple of questions and since you are SO BRILLIANT at educating everybody on the lack of the equal protection:
1. Were putting those nooses on the tree a crime? Not ‘hate crime’ in the general sense, but an actual part of the penal code in Louisiana that would have given then prosecutor the means to file charges? Yes or no?
2. Was the white kid who hit a black kid at that party charged with battery? Yes or no.
3. What are the details behind the shotgun case? I’ve read conflicting accounts. What are the ACTUAL FACTS?
Enlighten us.
I’m not mitigating the assault
Sure you are.
And just to be clear to others in the face of Frameone’s idiocy at what I am getting at:
A. You can’t say that the kids who put those nooses up should be charged with a hate crime if a statute doesn’t exist to do so.
B. We’re all operating on a lot of second hand information regarding the party incident and the shotgun incident. Unlike people like Frameone, I am not willing to say anything happened exactly as reported because unfortunately with issues that involve race, BOTH SIDES have a tendency to lie.
For instance, where did the information come from that said Robert Bailey wrestled the gun away from the kid who pulled it on him? One report I read said Bailey and two of his friends beat up the kid and stole his shotgun which is why Bailey was charged. Honestly, I don’t know who to believe and don’t anybody hit me with the “What do they have to gain by lying?” nonsense because a lot of people in this entire mess have to gain by lying. As well as a lot to lose.
“I am not willing to say anything happened exactly as reported … except when i repeat over and over and over again OMG THOSE BLAKC KIDS BEAT THAT POOR WHITE KID TO THE POINT OF UNCONCIOUSNESS!1!! THE SAVAGES!!!!!!!
What an idiot.
And jay, it’s a little lame of you to pretend like, “Well if there had been a statute I’d be with you brother!” Because you are opposed to hate crimes because apparently you don’t think threatening kids with lynching is all that big a deal … i mean this is the deep south and all, they are so totally over that down there …
Because you are opposed to hate crimes because apparently you don’t think threatening kids with lynching is all that big a deal
And you stick needles in the eyes of kittens and pull wings off flies.
Going to answer the questions or just be your usual moronic self?
And jay, it’s a little lame of you to pretend like, “Well if there had been a statute I’d be with you brother!”
Oh and by the way, all I am doing is stating facts. If there’s nothing that can legally be done, that’s a fact, not an opinion. Learn the difference twit.
That’s great, jay. You think that these black students should have the book thrown at them but oppose any legislation that would punish the white kids for threatening the black kids with lynching in the first place. Awesome. What a champion of civil rights you are.
The fact of the matter is that these six black students should never have been charged with attempted murder. How about if they were charged them with battery and put them on probation? Got a problem with that?
Serious Jay, you are fucking retarded. I don’t know if this is because of a real mental impairment or just because you refuse to accept facts that disagree with you.
Me: A D.A. said he would end their lives with a stroke of a pen after they processed.
Jay: You are seriously misinformed. The “stroke of the pen” comment was made at the high school during an assembly with all of the students present. It was not made to the 6 kids in specifically.
Listen up, you little shit. A white man pulled a shotgun on three black youths, no charges were laid. A group of white youth beat up a black man, cops tell the victim he shouldn’t be in that part of town. Black youth beat up a white youth, they are charged as adults with attempted murder.
This is part of a pattern of racism. You might be able to say, “He was talking to both sides equally.” if the rest of the events didn’t happen.
Me: He was in the hospital for less than a day. If he even had a concussion, he should have stayed overnight for observations.
Jay: Great, so beating people up to the point of unconsciousness is a-ok with you just so long as they don’t have to spend the night in the hospital. The mind boggles.
Jesus fucking Christ. You are without doubt one of the stupidest lifeforms out there. No wonder you are conservative.
Beating people up is still a crime, but it is not attempted murder.
By the way, I’m not stupid. I have debated with people 10 times smarter than you. I not going to fall for your traps. Changing the subject mid-debate and yelling, ‘Gotcha!’ won’t score you points.
Me: Changing your story? By the way, none of those fit with this case
Jay: Let’s see. Stomping on a kids head until he’s knocked out. That’s not reckless or grossly negligent? Okayyyyy.
Read the laws.
Me: There was no murder. There was nothing that was close to murder
Hay: I didn’t say there was.
YES YOU DID. What do you think Attempted murder means?
Jay: Do you agree that had it not been broken up, that young man could have been killed? Yes or no?
He could have tripped, banged his head, and died. Hypothetical are hardly valid here.
Me: White youths beat up a black youth = no charges
Jay: Actually it was one white youth and he was charged with battery. And the victim in that case suffered no injuries.
When? Before or after the cops told him he shouldn’t be in that part of town?
Me: What these people were doing to these blacks youths was terrorism. Now you are saying you can’t use deadly force in the face of terrorism?
Jay: Terrorism is an ongoing thing. If this was an ongoing thing, then sure,
… Serious question. Are you fucking retarded?
You think this sort of racism just sprung up over night. THERE WAS A FUCKING TREE AT SCHOOL THAT WAS FOR WHITES ONLY.
You think that these black students should have the book thrown at them but oppose any legislation that would punish the white kids for threatening the black kids with lynching in the first place.
What planet did you arrive from? I’d really like to know. Let’s make it simple so that your kind understand how things go here on planet Earth.
When a person says, “There is no legislation in place that could be used to prosecute the kids that put the nooses on the tree”, it does not imply that person is opposed to such legislation. What means is:
“There is no legislation in place that could be used to prosecute the kids that put the nooses on the tree.”
See how easy that is? A prosecutor must have a statute or law to work with in order to file charges.
I really cannot understand Frame, why somebody such as yourself, who is obviously smart can reach such stupid conclusions.
For the record, I am not opposed to hate crimes legislation and this wasn’t a ‘prank’ as the superintendent said it was. The kids should have been expelled. That doesn’t change the fact that the prosecutor in this case didn’t charge those kids not because he didn’t feel like it, but because there was nothing on the books that could allow him to prosecute them.
The fact of the matter is that these six black students should never have been charged with attempted murder.
I agree with that. Unfortunately, there are people who think they shouldn’t be charged with anything simply because the kids who put the nooses up were not charged with anything. You don’t correct one injustice by committing another.
How about if they were charged them with battery and put them on probation? Got a problem with that?
No, but they should be charged.
Listen up, you little shit.
Look, if you want to call me retarded or stupid or whatever else, fine. But I’m not going to respond when you’re acting like the big bad Internet tough guy from your perch up there in Canada, ok?
Jay: When a person says, “There is no legislation in place that could be used to prosecute the kids that put the nooses on the tree”, it does not imply that person is opposed to such legislation. What means is:
… it means he lied. There are, at the very least, federal laws again hate crimes. If he’s going to charge kids as adults with attempted murder for beating up a kid who had such minor injuries that he didn’t even have a concussion, then he should at least punted this one up to the feds. He did nothing, cause he’s racist, as the other events prove.
Jay: Look, if you want to call me retarded or stupid or whatever else, fine. But I’m not going to respond when you’re acting like the big bad Internet tough guy from your perch up there in Canada, ok?
Translation: Jay finally admits he’s wrong.
it means he lied.
You really like putting your foot in your mouth don’t you? You’ll see why here in a moment.
There are, at the very least, federal laws again hate crimes.
Oh really? Well gee whiz, thanks for pointing that out to me!
If he’s going to charge kids as adults
In Louisiana, you’re considered an adult when you’re 17. Beats me as to why.
who had such minor injuries that he didn’t even have a concussion
He did have a concussion. Contrary to what you said earlier, a concussion is not necessary for an overnight stay in hospital.
then he should at least punted this one up to the feds. He did nothing, cause he’s racist, as the other events prove.
The feds did investigate. They didn’t prosecute because the case didn’t meet standards required for the teens to be certified as adults.
Translation: Jay finally admits he’s wrong.
No, I just don’t care for guys who act like they’re all big and bad when sitting anonymously behind a keyboard. Such talk like, “Listen you little shit” means one of two things:
A. You’re a pussy but know you’re safe behind your keyboard
B. You have a very small penis and must compensate
Me: If he’s going to charge kids as adults
Jay: In Louisiana, you’re considered an adult when you’re 17. Beats me as to why.
Sure about that? Cause Wiki has it at 18 as does About.com. If it was 17, there would be no choice in charging them as adults. Are you thinking of Age of Consent?
Me: who had such minor injuries that he didn’t even have a concussion
Jay: He did have a concussion. Contrary to what you said earlier, a concussion is not necessary for an overnight stay in hospital.
It was reported as a concussion. However, a real concussion requires an overnight stay cause serious complications can arise hours after the incident. He may have passed out and given the media’s inability to report details clearly, I’m not convinced on this point.
(By the way, he reported leaving the ring ceremony due to headache, if he had a concussion, he should have returned to the hospital because of that symptom alone.)
Me: then he should at least punted this one up to the feds. He did nothing, cause he’s racist, as the other events prove.
Jay: The feds did investigate.
Yes. I was incorrect about that point.
Me: Translation: Jay finally admits he’s wrong.
Jay: No, I just don’t care for guys who act like they’re all big and bad when sitting anonymously behind a keyboard.
Two points:
1.) Anonymously? How do you figure that, Jay?
2.) And I don’t care for guys who feign ignorance to try and win debates. To me that is acting like a little shit. And that’s exactly what you are doing.