Comments on: Kevin Spacey Returns for Man Of Steel http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/ Like Kryptonite To Stupid Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:49:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Thad http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66318 Thad Thu, 19 Jul 2007 02:39:58 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66318 ...You know, on second thought, I don't want a movie with Metallo. I'd like to see, for once, a Superman movie without Kryptonite. It's too much of a crutch, too much of a deus ex machina. Let's get a writing team that can give the big guy a challenge WITHOUT having to resort to K. …You know, on second thought, I don’t want a movie with Metallo. I’d like to see, for once, a Superman movie without Kryptonite. It’s too much of a crutch, too much of a deus ex machina. Let’s get a writing team that can give the big guy a challenge WITHOUT having to resort to K.

]]> By: Thad http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66317 Thad Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:03:44 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66317 If I'm not mistaken, that was actually his FIRST appearance -- or his second, depending on how you figure it. (He appeared in two stories in Batman #1.) He still kept the edge for awhile after that; the clowny, tying-people-to-giant-pianos Joker is best associated with the 1950's and 1960's. If I’m not mistaken, that was actually his FIRST appearance — or his second, depending on how you figure it. (He appeared in two stories in Batman #1.) He still kept the edge for awhile after that; the clowny, tying-people-to-giant-pianos Joker is best associated with the 1950’s and 1960’s.

]]> By: Nimrod Gently http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66316 Nimrod Gently Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:25:21 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66316 The turning point was when they actually killed him in the original script for about his third appearance. That got vetoed and he became a recurring villain, and was gradually softened accordingly. The turning point was when they actually killed him in the original script for about his third appearance. That got vetoed and he became a recurring villain, and was gradually softened accordingly.

]]> By: White Whale http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66315 White Whale Wed, 18 Jul 2007 03:08:49 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66315 Thad, I stand corrected. He was initially portrayed as a violent and dark character but... in the 40's(I think the late 40's) he became a 'clownish' figure and continued to be portrayed as such through the 60's. Thad,
I stand corrected. He was initially portrayed as a violent and dark character but… in the 40’s(I think the late 40’s) he became a ‘clownish’ figure and continued to be portrayed as such through the 60’s.

]]> By: Thad http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66314 Thad Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:14:59 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66314 White Whale: "what about the Joker? No superpowers and has a DEEP history with Batman and the psychology runs REAL deep. (He was only funny and cartoony when he first appeared in the comics)" Uh, no he wasn't. The Joker's first appearance in 1940 was extremely similar to the version of the character we see today -- yes, he has a clownish grin, but he's a vicious, cold-blooded killer. You are, presumably, thinking of the Silver Age version of the character, not the original Golden Age version. SpiderJ: " I was disappointed by the way he played Lex in the first film. Too over-the-top and clownish, in my opinion. The glee with which he discussed the death of billions was loony...Lex is first and foremost an egomaniac and hungry for power, and killing billions of people is not beyond him, but it's always a mere detail in the greater plan. I wanted something a little colder." I prefer my Lex that way too -- the Clancy Brown version on the toon and the Michael Rosenbaum version on Smallville are favorites of mine -- but it's certainly not the only valid version of the character. Lex has been played as a clownish mad scientist to great effect on many occasions. Hell, even the animated version went through a series of changes -- from the scheming businessman who nobody could ever pin anything on in the Superman toon, to the over-the-top supervillain in Justice League, back to squeaky-clean scheming businessman, godlike fusion with Brainiac, and finally slightly crazy leader of the Legion of Doom in Justice League Unlimited. White Whale: “what about the Joker? No superpowers and has a DEEP history with Batman and the psychology runs REAL deep. (He was only funny and cartoony when he first appeared in the comics)”

Uh, no he wasn’t. The Joker’s first appearance in 1940 was extremely similar to the version of the character we see today — yes, he has a clownish grin, but he’s a vicious, cold-blooded killer. You are, presumably, thinking of the Silver Age version of the character, not the original Golden Age version.

SpiderJ: ” I was disappointed by the way he played Lex in the first film. Too over-the-top and clownish, in my opinion. The glee with which he discussed the death of billions was loony…Lex is first and foremost an egomaniac and hungry for power, and killing billions of people is not beyond him, but it’s always a mere detail in the greater plan. I wanted something a little colder.”

I prefer my Lex that way too — the Clancy Brown version on the toon and the Michael Rosenbaum version on Smallville are favorites of mine — but it’s certainly not the only valid version of the character. Lex has been played as a clownish mad scientist to great effect on many occasions. Hell, even the animated version went through a series of changes — from the scheming businessman who nobody could ever pin anything on in the Superman toon, to the over-the-top supervillain in Justice League, back to squeaky-clean scheming businessman, godlike fusion with Brainiac, and finally slightly crazy leader of the Legion of Doom in Justice League Unlimited.

]]> By: Duros62 http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66313 Duros62 Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:30:31 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66313 My favorite line from Superman Returns: "Weren't there two of those?" My favorite line from Superman Returns:
“Weren’t there two of those?”

]]> By: SpiderJ http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66312 SpiderJ Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:23:00 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66312 Look, I'm possibly the biggest Spacey fan in the world, somebody who would gladly shell out money to watch "Spacey In Concert: The Phone Book" but I was disappointed by the way he played Lex in the first film. Too over-the-top and clownish, in my opinion. The glee with which he discussed the death of billions was loony...Lex is first and foremost an egomaniac and hungry for power, and killing billions of people is not beyond him, but it's always a mere detail in the greater plan. I wanted something a little colder. Look, I’m possibly the biggest Spacey fan in the world, somebody who would gladly shell out money to watch “Spacey In Concert: The Phone Book” but I was disappointed by the way he played Lex in the first film. Too over-the-top and clownish, in my opinion. The glee with which he discussed the death of billions was loony…Lex is first and foremost an egomaniac and hungry for power, and killing billions of people is not beyond him, but it’s always a mere detail in the greater plan. I wanted something a little colder.

]]> By: Nimrod Gently http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66311 Nimrod Gently Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:40:45 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66311 Actually DC killed him off to fill up time before they could marry him off. Warners said they had to marry him at the same time as the TV series, and that procrastinated like a son of a bitch. Then they turned him into Electric Man. That really was retarded. Actually DC killed him off to fill up time before they could marry him off. Warners said they had to marry him at the same time as the TV series, and that procrastinated like a son of a bitch.

Then they turned him into Electric Man. That really was retarded.

]]> By: Oliver Willis http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66310 Oliver Willis Tue, 17 Jul 2007 04:14:15 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66310 Well you can go watch Superman Returns to see Spacey as Luthor already. I don't want to see a "grim and gritty" Superman. The heyday of my comic fandom was the '90s and that was an overdose of grim and gritty. One of the reasons I've always loved Superman is that it isn't a dark book. No, I don't like the almighty Superman, but I love that at heart he's a farm boy from Kansas who loves his parents and the love of his life (Lois) unconditionally. The great Superman story will always have the world and Metropolis in peril, Lois Lane in trouble, Lex Luthor cackling, and Superman saving the day to the delight of his millions of fans as a symbol as hope. Maybe that's too corny, but that's how I like it. Well you can go watch Superman Returns to see Spacey as Luthor already. I don’t want to see a “grim and gritty” Superman. The heyday of my comic fandom was the ’90s and that was an overdose of grim and gritty. One of the reasons I’ve always loved Superman is that it isn’t a dark book. No, I don’t like the almighty Superman, but I love that at heart he’s a farm boy from Kansas who loves his parents and the love of his life (Lois) unconditionally. The great Superman story will always have the world and Metropolis in peril, Lois Lane in trouble, Lex Luthor cackling, and Superman saving the day to the delight of his millions of fans as a symbol as hope.

Maybe that’s too corny, but that’s how I like it.

]]> By: Duder http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66309 Duder Tue, 17 Jul 2007 02:25:10 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66309 KSpac as Lex Luthor has tremendous upside potential. Will he be better than Gene Hackman's Luthor? That won't come easy. KSpac as Lex Luthor has tremendous upside potential. Will he be better than Gene Hackman’s Luthor? That won’t come easy.

]]> By: White Whale http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66308 White Whale Tue, 17 Jul 2007 01:48:17 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66308 I do have to say that I am a Batman comic fan but probably more so a X-Men fan. Lex Luthor is one of my favorite villains, but what about the Joker? No superpowers and has a DEEP history with Batman and the psychology runs REAL deep. (He was only funny and cartoony when he first appeared in the comics)As far as villains go, X-men have SO MANY that I think you can find infinitely more stories. I more side on the darker, grittier comic books, which predominately were Marvel.(Until DC decided Superman was TOO invinsible and unstoppable that they killed him off etc...) My only wish with the Superman movie was that villain didn't completely steal the show acting wise. Its easy to get a great actor for villains but the trick is getting a superb actor for the hero. Batman Begins filled that bill pretty nicely. I only ask that the movies stop being 3 year old childish like Batman and Robin(I laugh and say "Everybody freeze" everytime I hear that movie mentioned). What Superman story(since I am not the biggest fan) would portray a more gritty, realistic side for a movie? Just curious:) I do have to say that I am a Batman comic fan but probably more so a X-Men fan. Lex Luthor is one of my favorite villains, but what about the Joker? No superpowers and has a DEEP history with Batman and the psychology runs REAL deep. (He was only funny and cartoony when he first appeared in the comics)As far as villains go, X-men have SO MANY that I think you can find infinitely more stories. I more side on the darker, grittier comic books, which predominately were Marvel.(Until DC decided Superman was TOO invinsible and unstoppable that they killed him off etc…) My only wish with the Superman movie was that villain didn’t completely steal the show acting wise. Its easy to get a great actor for villains but the trick is getting a superb actor for the hero. Batman Begins filled that bill pretty nicely. I only ask that the movies stop being 3 year old childish like Batman and Robin(I laugh and say “Everybody freeze” everytime I hear that movie mentioned). What Superman story(since I am not the biggest fan) would portray a more gritty, realistic side for a movie? Just curious:)

]]> By: Oliver http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66307 Oliver Tue, 17 Jul 2007 00:21:21 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66307 I'll concede that. Lex does do the manipulation thing often, especially with Metallo, but I don't want to see Lex having "equals" among villians. He's just not that kind of guy and it always comes down psychologically to Superman vs. Lex. It's the great thing that the biggest thorn in the side of the most powerful man on earth is just an ordinary man who happens to be a criminal genius of epic proportions. I’ll concede that. Lex does do the manipulation thing often, especially with Metallo, but I don’t want to see Lex having “equals” among villians. He’s just not that kind of guy and it always comes down psychologically to Superman vs. Lex. It’s the great thing that the biggest thorn in the side of the most powerful man on earth is just an ordinary man who happens to be a criminal genius of epic proportions.

]]> By: Thad http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66306 Thad Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:54:04 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66306 But I think Lex is a villain who works perfectly well as "guy in the shadows manipulating all the other villains like chess pieces." Batman doesn't really have any villains like that -- maybe Ra's al Ghul, but that's a stretch. I'm not saying I want to see, say, Brainiac, Lex, Metallo, Zod, and Bizarro in the same movie, but just two or three of those might work if balanced correctly. (Say, Lex uses Metallo as a weapon against Superman, but then Brainiac shows up as the Big Bad.) The story always comes down to the battle between Superman and Lex, but it can't be JUST that. But I think Lex is a villain who works perfectly well as “guy in the shadows manipulating all the other villains like chess pieces.” Batman doesn’t really have any villains like that — maybe Ra’s al Ghul, but that’s a stretch.

I’m not saying I want to see, say, Brainiac, Lex, Metallo, Zod, and Bizarro in the same movie, but just two or three of those might work if balanced correctly. (Say, Lex uses Metallo as a weapon against Superman, but then Brainiac shows up as the Big Bad.)

The story always comes down to the battle between Superman and Lex, but it can’t be JUST that.

]]> By: Oliver http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66305 Oliver Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:28:03 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66305 Yeah, I was specifically talking about Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Batman Begins was very good, though inferior to Superman Returns because, well, I don't think Batman is nearly as cool as Superman :) I also liked X-Men 3, but I'm also not an X-Men fanboy so violations of canon are not as egregious to me. Yeah, I was specifically talking about Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Batman Begins was very good, though inferior to Superman Returns because, well, I don’t think Batman is nearly as cool as Superman :)
I also liked X-Men 3, but I’m also not an X-Men fanboy so violations of canon are not as egregious to me.

]]> By: Nimrod Gently http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66304 Nimrod Gently Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:14:39 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66304 I expect he's talking about Batman and Robin especially, with its Mr Freeze/Poison Ivy/Bane for some fucking reason collection. It'd be nice to see Braniac at some point. Maybe Metallo. I expect he’s talking about Batman and Robin especially, with its Mr Freeze/Poison Ivy/Bane for some fucking reason collection.

It’d be nice to see Braniac at some point. Maybe Metallo.

]]> By: White Whale http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66303 White Whale Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:57:36 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66303 Oliver, You obviously are not referencing Batman Begins because that movie was FAR superior to the Superman movie. I agree that villain overload can muddle a story. Just give the Superman movie to 3(which seems to now be the magic # for the movie to falter---see X-Men 3). As a comic book fan it really matters that the villain(s) fits into a good story line. Oliver,
You obviously are not referencing Batman Begins because that movie was FAR superior to the Superman movie. I agree that villain overload can muddle a story. Just give the Superman movie to 3(which seems to now be the magic # for the movie to falter—see X-Men 3). As a comic book fan it really matters that the villain(s) fits into a good story line.

]]> By: mdhåtter http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/07/16/kevin-spacey-returns-for-man-of-steel/#comment-66302 mdhåtter Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:48:32 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=5710#comment-66302 a bald Kevin Spacey really does make a pretty good Lex Luthor. a bald Kevin Spacey really does make a pretty good Lex Luthor.

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