Why does Microsoft have to mess up a good thing? I’ve loved my 360 since I bought it, had nothing but praise for it. So much so that I got my best friend to buy one and now we play Madden via the internet like we used to back in high school. And then I got the three red lights of doom and had to mail my unit to them last week, and am currently waiting to receive a replacement machine. And I’m clearly not alone. The 360, until this, was probably the best product Microsoft had ever made – for it to just die like this is kind of ridiculous and on such a huge scale is crazy.
There are four lights.
Yeah, but when it borks, at least on mine, only three go red.
Yea, its called the three lights of death. It happened to me about a year ago. That said, it’s been tempermental ever since. The good news is that they just upped the warranty – so its free to get it fixed. You just wait a month or so.
They just upped there warranty to 3 years. Pretty cool if you ask me. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/mgs4-this/microsoft-extends-xbox-360-warranty-costs-1-billion-275432.php
There are four lights.
Sigh. Well you’ve never said much about Star Trek TNG. (You probably weren’t even born….)
I’m not sure where to place my money on the heat sink debacle with the 360, but there are numerous possibilities:
1.)Cost. While the cost per 360 might be negligible, when spread across millions of units, it amounts to serious money. Nintendo does this all the time. It’s why their hand helds and even the Wii are all well behind the current tech curve. Though, in Nintendo’s case, they are at least smart enough to avoid anything that compromises the system’s stability.
2.)Rush to be first out the gate. This would be my favorite theory. MS wanted to get out ahead of Sony at (probably) a lower cost. Knowing full well that Sony loves to foist complex and confusing hardware on developers, MS also likely knew that the year advantage would grow to two or more years as game devs struggle to get the cel chip under control.
3.)Acceptable losses. MS knew there was a serious heat dissipation problem and pushed the machine out anyway, hoping that the year or so it would take for the problem to become critical would buy them a solid market lead and tie them to a solid base of hardcore gamers that would stick with the console despite the flaws. That way MS hsd time to refine the hardware, reduce costs, iron out bugs, and ultimately release a better, cheaper console when Sony is forced to lower the PS3’s price to get back in the race (I’m betting the apparent success of bluray brings an early price cut to the PS3, though the real reason will be flagging sales, naturally). As a bonus, MS may be trying to spin this to their advantage by appearing especially responsive to the problem (though playing dumb doesn’t quite work in this respect), offering hardware upgrades (an additional heat sink) and an extended warranty (notice the “good news” and “pretty cool” comments). At any rate, the average consumer misses the whole controversy and steps into the local EB in the next 6 months to 1 year to buy a shiny, new, 360 v. 2.0 for $299 and doesn’t so much as shed a tear for the hardcore early $499 adopters who are currently running their 360’s out the back of their Frigidaire.
Or it all might be bad luck. MS may have rolled the dice to make a launch date and lost, though how badly they will suffer for this is still a big question mark.
This could also just be due to manufacturing variables. Unless the heat sink compound is applied by machine there is the human variable. Since these are made in China you know that the assembly processes are probably manual (read: cheap labor). Also the SOP may not be clear enough on the production floor.
I doubt if they knew this before they shipped. This type of thing kills profit.
It could be there was a fault in their MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure)testing methodology during development. Generally you exercise a large number of units for as many hours as you can to determine MTBF. But even this would only give you a higher certainty that the device is reliable, not absolute certainty, that is impossible. Also if they rushed to market and the failure occurred outside of their MTBF test parameters they would not have seen it. I have seen this on other products. They test with a larger quantity for a shorter period of time and miss a more latent problem.
It’s possible also that there was a mistake in the calculations for the thermal performance of the GPU. You would hope that this kind of error would be exposed during MTBF testing but again a rush to market would not expose this.
I have experience with the company in China where these are made. We had a reliability issue with one of our products because the purchasing department there cut corners and ordered unapproved material. So maybe the heatsinks are not made to design or the wrong compound was purchased.
“Sigh. Well you’ve never said much about Star Trek TNG.”
I got it. It made me laugh.
By the way, Oliver, there’s a reason why the 360 is in third place.
Third place ?
I’m not a Trekker, the only series I like is classic and TNG but I didn’t get the reference right away – I’m not THAT young (I turn 30 this Dec.).
AFAIK, 360 is #2, with Wii at #1 and PS3 at #3. And in many ways the Wii is a different machine for a different audience from PS3/360.
Sorry Mr. O-Dub, sir, but the 360 is, in fact, the 3rd ranking console.
The 360 is, of course, beating the PS3, for regions which are by now as norotious as they are numerous, but it says something remarkable that even today the PS2 is outselling Microsoft’s Next-Gen console. The reason the original Xbox isn’t included in those figures is because they aren’t being made or sold anymore, nor any games for the system. Alternately, the PS2 still sees releases, and continues to thrive as the PS3 slowly tries to get its own foothold on the market. Yes, 360 is beating PS3, but the tricky bit there is that MSoft put all their eggs into the Next-Gen basket. Sony didnt, and by combining the two consoles they’re pulling out ahead in market share for now with that.
Also, NES Fanboy that I am, I’m still surprised by how much fun I’ve been having with the Wii. Even just using the internet browser to run through StumbleVideo on a slow day is a hoot, to say nothing of WiiSports and ResEvil4 again. They’re less rare now than before, and I can’t recommend the dang thing enough.
…Okay, I know I’m a colossal ass for saying this, but…
…how is it that people are SURPRISED by Microsoft putting out a product that doesn’t work very well?
In the next generation order, the 360 is in second place, behind the Nintendo Wii but still in front of the PS3.
The PS3 is not selling as much right now simply because of the price. A buyer has to unload $600 on that thing before they buy their first game, while a Wii only costs $250. The 360 basic package can be had for $300.
Sony denies there is any price cut, but I guarantee they will cut prices by $100-$150 before the end of the year to boost sales.
Whatever one’s preference is, you have to hand it to the guys at Nintendo. They do their homework and they make a great long lasting product. There were people who predicted the PS3 and Xbox 360 would spell the end for Nintendo, but look who’s having the last laugh.
Well if we’re talking just the Next-Gen consoles then we can’t fairly include the Wii there either, since the highest resolution it offers is 480p, which is so minimally better than standard definition you might just as well not bother buying the HD cables.
At that point the competition is between the 360 and PS3 alone, and naturally the one with a full year’s lead to get a decent game library is going to be selling better. I wouldn’t bet on a price drop exactly, but by the holidays there definately has to be a system+game+2nd controller bundle coming or something, at which point I look forward to buying one and Metal Gear making me its willing mind-slave.
Well the PS2 outsells 360 because it has a jillion titles for it and it costs less than half the price. I had the original XBox, but only because I could never understand how people deal with the jaggies on PS2, and got the 360 because of its more interesting (to me) library.
Of course all of this is kinda moot because I play Madden 90% of the time and Gears of War and Crackdown the other 10%.
If I were a Microsoft investor I’d be pressuring them to get out of the game console market all together. It’s not just hemorrhaging money, it’s vomiting it.
“AFAIK, 360 is #2, with Wii at #1 and PS3 at #3. And in many ways the Wii is a different machine for a different audience from PS3/360.”
360 was released a year earlier, but most recent sales figures have it in third place and the Wii should catch up relatively quickly.
And the reason for that? The Wii is more fun to play, which is the point of a video game. Technology should enhance the entertainment, but it can’t replace it.
Oh my GOD! Videogame fanboy arguments? Here?
Those saying the 360 is the “3rd place” console are OBVIOUSLY fanboys. All that matters to developers (especially 3rd party) is which console moves the most software and the 360 is that console.
Oh and Oliver, I don’t know if you’ve heard but MS has extended the warranty of ALL 360 consoles to 3 years retroactive to the date of purchase. So if your console dies, take it back and get a replacement.
MS, fix the cooling problems. Fanboys, get a life.
“Those saying the 360 is the “3rd place” console are OBVIOUSLY fanboys. All that matters to developers (especially 3rd party) is which console moves the most software and the 360 is that console.”
Really? Cause the Wii dominates the sales charts as well.
The most recent chart has FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 in best XBox 360 seller, and it comes in at sixth place. Wii has two games in the top five and so does the NDS.
This is why I haven’t bought an xbox 360 yet. Well that and I’m broke.
Jesus Christ! The last NDS that included Forza 2 in 6th place,the game was only on sale for TWO DAYS when that data was collected. And one of the “best selling” Wii games actually is a game included with a peripheral.
Fanboys are incredible. Seriously. When you get to the point where you actually HATE the “enemy” console and attach your self-esteem and emotional well being to the fate of “your” console, you’ve got trouble.
“Jesus Christ! The last NDS that included Forza 2 in 6th place,”
I’m not sure what you mean by the last NDS.
“the game was only on sale for TWO DAYS when that data was collected.”
So was Mario Party 8, and it finished in second place.
“And one of the “best selling” Wii games actually is a game included with a peripheral.”
This is true of the XBox top sellers, Guitar Hero II.
“Fanboys are incredible. Seriously. When you get to the point where you actually HATE the ‘enemy’ console and attach your self-esteem and emotional well being to the fate of ‘your’ console, you’ve got trouble.”
Who the fuck are you, and how can you make these claims?
The Wii is outselling the XBox 360 in both hardware and top selling games. This is not an emotional response from me, as I own neither of them. These are just the facts.
If anyone here is an irrational fanboy, it’s your.
Starky, the same as ever, you’re pissing on all video gaming besides the 360 as you sing its praises as well, and then deride anyone pointing out marketplace polling data and sales figures as irrational fanboys. Nobody here has actually said a thing against the 360 (aside from the main topic of its higher than ought-to-be failure rate) and here you are coming off like you’re under attack.
Do you deny that, in May, more Wii consoles were sold than 360s? Do you deny that more PS2s were sold? Do you deny that, on the software side, 2 Wii games and a PS2 game took the top spots before the 360 even comes in? More to the damn point, do you deny that we’ve been talking about sales numbers this whole time and not, in fact, just been calling the 360 gay?
I’m not denying at all that 360 has sold more and is selling better, as a console and a software platform, than the PS3, which has been on the market for less than half as much time and has a higher MSRP, since naturally those two elements are going to factor in immensely into consumer purchasing.
My question to you, video gaming insider analyst that you oh so clearly are, is as follows: Given firstly that the PS2 is still, as a system, a selling console which clearly has a relevant demand for it, (and by extension, so to does does it’s games) and that that demand currently exceeds that of the 360, isn’t it possible that, at the same time America is generally transitioning from standard def to HD television, that Sony’s “transitional” approach of having one “old” and one “new” console on the market during this time period might not be the stupidest thing on earth? You said once that 360’s strength was offering consumers a choice between 2 (well now 3 countirng the Elite) versions of the console. Well Sony too is offering a choice between generational hardware. Is it just possible that might work out for them in the end?
Also, can you get through one single godsdamn post without calling everyone who isn’t you personally a fucking fanboy? Could you do that for us? Could you please do just so much for all of us here to demonstrate that you’re not 14 years old?
“Starky, the same as ever,”
I think we do a good job here debating issues on the merits, even the stupid issues. (I think game consuls ranks right up there with Kim Kardashian in terms of pointless arguments.)
But my god, I have no problem treating morons with the (lack of) respect they deserve.
Looks like Sony didn’t even wait until Christmas to cut prices.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/07/09/sony.price.reut/index.html
“Looks like Sony didn’t even wait until Christmas to cut prices.”
Makes sense.
Anyone tried the Blu-Ray player portion of the PS3? I’m looking to upgrade to a high def TV and the PS3 is cheaper than a stand-alone player.
Yeah, what Jay said.
NYTimes.
The only one that isn’t failing is the Wii while the PS2 is still a major player on the market.
Cheap and fun beats high tech and frustrating.
Resident Evil 4 on the Wii is one of the best games I’ve ever played. Between that, Zelda, and Wii sports, I’m quite pleased with the system. My only Wii-gret is missing out on Grand Theft Auto IV.
“My only Wii-gret is missing out on Grand Theft Auto IV.”
First of all… Wii-gret? Ick.
Secondly, I’ve got a PC to run GTA:IV.
Maybe I’ll buy a used Xbox 360 in 2010 and try it out then…