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Frank, you fucking moron. I’ve already shown you Canada pays less in paperwork than in the States. How do you explain this?

I can think of only two reasons:

1.) The Canadian system is better.

2.) Canadians are better.

Which is it?

“This news just in from Canada”

Yeah, the Canadian Health Care system isn’t perfect and has been underfunded for a while. But it still gets better results than the American one.

(And the quote in the headline isn’t backed up by any real facts.)

Nobody said it better than Reagan: The most frightening words you ever heard: “We’re from the government, and we’re here to help.”

I can imagine employers in 1943: “We can take out Federal Tax and Social Security throughout the year? That should work fine!”

The main reason is that the facts. Healthcare delivery is cheaper per-capita in countries with National healthcare vs. U.S. Healthcare admin. costs are cheaper in the U.S. under Medicare than not. You have no evidence at all that the net savings will be zero, just a vague disbelief in the efficacy of government systems.

I didn’t mean all Canadians are assholes, how pompous of you. Let me straighten that out. From now on I will refer to you as the “asshole from Canada”. Better?

You’re not keeping up with the threads — lousy job of stalking, Psycho!

We covered the “children calling” thing elsewhere.

Finally, I was quoting someone else, and you quoted me as if they were my words!

Can you ever do ANYTHING stupid enough to be embarrassed?

zadura: they would certainly eliminate the expense of sales people

Your vision is too small. You see the people with the Pharma sticky pads, and free pens, and imagine $25 – $30K a year each being saved when the government takes over.

But they will be replaced over night by two groups of people, probably larger in number, that will make the same amount per year.

1) Service representatives: People that answer mail and phone calls about complaints in the system

2) Investigators to go in the field and investigate those complaints.

Net savings :: None

The government doesn’t do everything well but they would certainly eliminate the expense of sales people. In U.S. healthcare, 15% of the money you pay goes to sales. It would certainly eliminate the need to pay a bunch of administrative CEOs extravigant amounts of money, it would certainly enable the “health plan” to negotiate better rates with vendors, including drug companies. It would eliminate the huge investment banking fees attributable to M&A work with health insurance plans. In short, it would cost less… As a businessman, an employer who offers health insurance and pays too much money, I want a change.

I love how you say that, and then rely on nothing more than your own preconceived assumptions to back it up. No facts, no research, nothing but your faith in your infallibility.

“These companies DO SOMETHING. Those tasks will no doubt be taken over by government agencies. When has it ever happened that the government has taken over ANYTHING, and it then became cheaper?”

Insurance. It’s the same in Canada with car insurance; each province has its own insurance corporation and those run by the government are cheaper.

Look at the numbers:

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2003/august/administrative_costs.php
http://consumeraffairs.com/news04/health_plan.html

The United States pays more money in paperwork than Canada does, both in terms of raw dollars and in terms of percentage. The reason for this is simple, private insurance must make a profit and the best way to do that is to deny coverage and to refuse to pay for needed treatment. It takes another layer of bureaucracy to do that.

You may think the government can’t do anything better than the private section, but you are wrong.

“May the Canadian asshole and the British dimwit can be forgiven for being dumbasses, but zadura, you’re an American businessman!”

More bigotry form the perpetual victim named Frank. This is why your children don’t call.

I’ve never heard of health programs like Community Health or D-O-C-S, zadura.

I know I’m not fabulously wealthy and I don’t run some enviro – company in La La Land, but I didn’t fall off a truck full of pumpkins, yesterday, either.

These companies DO SOMETHING. Those tasks will no doubt be taken over by government agencies. When has it ever happened that the government has taken over ANYTHING, and it then became cheaper?

May the Canadian asshole and the British dimwit can be forgiven for being dumbasses, but zadura, you’re an American businessman!

When did the US Government ever doing anything cheaper and / or more efficiently than private industry?

When?

Hoover Dam?

In the U.S., insurance companies do not directly offer insurance plans to companies. They go through semi-independent agents. Those agents have relationships with employers and individuals and do a small amount of servicing of those plans. Agents’ income is commission-based with small service compensation. Because the agent has leverage with the employer to move plans, the insurance companies are obliged to offer competitive commissions. Thus, the cost that insurance companies pay in Sales and Administrative costs are extremely high.

To look at a few examples:

United Healthcare (2006) – $25+ B in premiums – $4.8 B in “Operating Costs”
Humana (2006) – $21+ B in premiums, $3B in Sales and Admin costs
Welcare Health Plans (2006) – $1.8 B in premiums – $259 M in SG&A

A National Health Plan would not have such expenses, which is why insurance companies and agents are very freaked out and why they need you and other “free-marketeers” to remain ignorant.

Who said anything about unpaid medicine and unpaid doctors? You truly have no idea how this works, do you?

“What fucking middle man?”

Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Delta Dental, United Healthcare, and the Gotti crime family.

The Fucking Liar: “Tut, tut, tut… Nasty, nasty! Link for Dummies”

No response? Thanks for admitting you are a liar.

“Strowbridge, you’re getting to be a real nuisance.”

Frank, you still really retarded.

“What fucking middle man?”

For profit insurance companies. Jesus Christ, Frank, are you that stupid?

… Yes you are.

“Bargain for better prices?”

How are you confused here? Is there a word you need defined?

The pharmaceutical companies lobbied hard to get the government to make it illegal for them to negotiate for lower prices. So obviously if they did negotiate, you would get lower prices.

“I’m starting to get a better picture of what kind of medicine you’re getting from the Canadian Health System.”

Better than you are and at a lower cost.

My favorite “Day – um, Clem’s a Fucking Idiot” Line: “What would ending their vacations do? Were they supposed to return to wave fans at the elderly?”

That would work…

As would this

or this”

Oh dear god, you are stupid. A nationwide natural disaster hits and you are blaming the health care system for the deaths. I guess Al Quaeda isn’t to blame for those 3000 that died on 9/11, it was the health care system.

What fucking middle man?

Bargain for better prices?

I’m starting to get a better picture of what kind of medicine you’re getting from the Canadian Health System.

But you have to take them every day for them to be effective, otherwise you’ll get these “spells” like you’ve been getting lately.

My favorite “Day – um, Clem’s a Fucking Idiot” Line: “What would ending their vacations do? Were they supposed to return to wave fans at the elderly?”

That would work…

As would this

or this

… Unless your analogy includes an election process, it is as fucking retarded as you are.

You’re not saying anything. You are complaining about the taxes as if they were armed robbery.

If you don’t want to pay taxes, go somewhere where there are none, see how well the government works.

On the other hand, if you are willing to pay for your health insurance, why not pay the government who can provide better service for less money than a corporation whose main / only goal is earning a profit?

The Fucking Liar: “Tut, tut, tut… Nasty, nasty! Link for Dummies”

Two points:

1.) You claimed, “they let them die and call them stillborn.” No where in your link does it say doctors in other nations don’t try and keep infants alive as long as possible.

2.) You realize they never prove their claim and mention only five nations. In fact…

“In Australia, Canada, and the United States, over one-third of all infant deaths are reported to take place in the first day….”

And Australia and Canada have lower infant mortality rates. So how can this claim of theirs be true? It might make a smaller difference, but not enough.

“Now will you admit you are fucking wrong, Clem?”

And what does that link prove? You can do a search without coming up with an actual article to prove people come to Canada to get drugs that are not FDA approved. Cause that was your claim, you liar.

“That happens in the United States as well. It’s a common occurrence during a record breaking heat wave.
14,802 deaths — “only about 20% of general practitioners were away during the heat wave.”
Happens all the time in backwards America, eh, Clem?”

The event was unprecedented in France. It would be like a volcano suddenly erupting in several major cities, at the same time. The result would be a disaster relief problem, not a health care crisis, you fucking friendless moron.

“The French Doctors were on vacation, and they weren’t going to interrupt their vacances for a piddling 14,000 deaths.”

What would ending their vacations do? Were there supposed to return to wave fans at the elderly?

“Now I will show how to ask a serious question:
Your comment was: Only the United States is without universal health care. The United States also pays more for its health care, and that’s just counting government spending
Now, with even a basic knowledge of US Government, how could you expect the cost of health to get cheaper?”

Cut out the middle man. That alone would reduce costs by 15% using the Canadian system as a model.

Then you could also bargain for better prices. That could save millions more.

But if you’re suggesting I’m lying, that no longer troubles me. It’s who you are — it’s what you do. It’s called 21st Century liberalism.

The next time you have erroneous FTD Pens, or A/C Interest you think is unfair, and an IRS employee tells you “Interest can’t be abated”, don’t call me.

I just make shit up. Just like I’m making up the part about representing taxpayers on my own after I left the IRS – for three years.

You’ll be moving all right, because your house will look like charcoal briquets.