For the right, talk radio is often a usually good barometer to measure how an issue plays with their base. For many hardcore rightists, the only words they believe are what Rush Limbaugh and his ilk say. They are their trusted sources of information, and like lemmings they do their bidding by raising money, making money, and calling people (as well as sending e-mails, man do they like sending e-mails with cut and paste talking points!). But the downside of this is that con talk radio does not often represent mass opinion. It is a medium representing a fringe or extremist point of view on many issues that aren’t shared in the rest of America. On immigration reform, Republicans are now largely convinced that talk radio represents real outrage, but I highly doubt it does – and there certainly isn’t a significant liberal pushback to that since our caucus is not as kneejerk xenophobic or racist as the right is.
It reminds me a lot of what happened with Terri Schiavo when the MSM took their usual cues from talk radio and insisted that the nation was “divided” on the issue. If Rush Limbaugh said it, it had to be true, right? No.
Another byproduct of right wing hate speech radio is that it’s listeners no longer know how to think for themselves (if they actually were able to begin with).
As you mentioned about the copy and paste emails, the right wing hate speech radio listener has become a mere parrot of talking points, spewing and repeating the venom that the hate speech radio host purveys.
Latest poll says that Democratics are split 50/50 over immigration. Who knew that 50% of Democrats took their marching orders from Rush Limbaugh?!?
Maybe, just maybe, Limbaugh and his ilk are merely reflecting existing popular opinion, not the other way around…
Why do Dems feel lukewarm about the bill? Certainly its not because of the anti-Hispanic sentiment being promoted by Limbaugh and company.
“Latest poll says that Democratics are split 50/50 over immigration. Who knew that 50% of Democrats took their marching orders from Rush Limbaugh?!?”
Uhhh, you do realize there are plenty of reasons not to like the current immigration bill other than the amnesty aspect Rush is flailing on about, right?
Or are you so locked on an Us vs. Them mindset that you can’t conceive of multiple points of view?
Hey we have talk radio and you have the mainstream media. Both have their moments of excess, but I’m trying to remember who it was in talk radio that tried to steal an election by promulgating forged documents.
Certainly its not because of the anti-Hispanic sentiment being promoted by Limbaugh and company/
If I were David Brock, I’d ask for my money back. Because you certainly haven’t been listening to the show if that’s what you come away with. That, or a deficiency in comprehensive reasoning skills.
Oh, please. Retain some semblance of dignity, Farris.
I’m not going to bother telling that to Dugger, it’s far too late for him.
Thanks nimmer (for not bothering). Some here may accept your “its true because I want it to be true” debating technique, but I generally don’t and its rather tedious dealing with it.
Cheerio.
‘Hey, we have talk radio nad you have the mainstream media”.\
Must be great living in Limbaugh-Lala-land, huh?
You DON’T have talk radio, you numbskull. Talk radio has YOU.
Talk radio is nothing but corporatist right-wing propaganda aimed at unsuspecting Americans, and using scientifcally selected hot-button, inflammatory, incendiary tactics to get to you.
They FOCUS-TEST to see what gets your goat. Why did immigration lay fallow and untouched for twenty years? Who really cares if a gay couple declare vows of fidelity and mutual support?
HateRadio knows, these issues drive a certain kind of American up the wall.
And they know this certain kind of American like a book. They know he or she listens and pays attention religiously, they know this certain kind of American is loyal and true to a fault, they know they are by and large uneducated and ignorant of the larger world, and they know exactly how to reach them and hold them.
Behold the “Magic of Talk Radio”: Every host has screeners to hand-pick the incoming calls, every host has a hotline to the White House and to the Corporations’ PR departments, and every host has a list of topics that they hit on a daily basis.
It’s easy, when you think about it. And it needs to go down.
“Hey we have talk radio and you have the mainstream media. Both have their moments of excess, but I’m trying to remember who it was in talk radio that tried to steal an election by promulgating forged documents.”
Seek help. You obviously need to be medicated.
You are still complaining about a few forged documents in a expose that had a huge amount of evidence presented.
Sure, it’s embarrassing, but nothing compared to the lies spread by right wing talk radio, most of which never gets covered anywhere else.
We’re still waiting for that compendium of Bush Administration Iraqi WMD claims that turned out to be true form Dugger. Forged documents, anyone?
Way back a long time ago, during Gulf War I, when most of you were teenagers, I was watching a military briefing on television. As was the usual case, after a few minutes, the “commentators” came on to tell us what the military briefers “really meant” (i.e., how the briefers were deceiving us, and they knew the truth).
I turned of the sound, and put on the radio, and continued listening to the actual briefing. When it was over, I heard, for the first time, Rush Limbaugh.
He was making fun of liberals, and the things they thought and said. I had never heard such stuff before. It was fabulous!
Now, suddenly, in your eyes, he epitomizes “hate radio”. That’s funny, because it’s obvious you hate him. He hits you where you live and breathe. And you hate him.
The fact that there was no one doing what Rush was doing, led to imitators. If the average talk radio listener were repulsed, then they wouldn’t have succeeded. But they have succeeded. Of course, that upends your applecart.
So, the obvious answer is: There is something wrong with the listeners! Of course!
Thanks for letting me rant.
Back to the “whine and moan” party.
Thanks for making our point for us Frank.
Frank:
“I heard, for the first time, Rush Limbaugh.
He was making fun of liberals…It was fabulous!
Now, suddenly, in your eyes, he epitomizes “hate radio”. That’s funny…”
Challenging ideas is one thing, Lysander, “Making Fun” is another. Rush Limbaugh is not as popular and powerful as he is simply because he provides a vocal opposition to liberal viewpoints. Limbaugh is popular because, as you said yourself, he “makes fun of liberals.” People dont tune in to him to hear an opposing view (an actual debate would of course be too much to ask) on, say, foreign policy, they tune in to hear him call Chelsea Clinton the “White House Dog.” I fail to see how this is not “hate radio,” when the only place these kind of attacks can come from is personal spite.
Funny thing too is how Right Wingers are so reluctant to own up to the hate as well. If OReilley, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, et al weren’t the loudmouthed arrogant belligerant bullies they were, nobody would pay them a damn bit of attention. It isn’t their politics that draws in the audience, its the hate. It’s their only real selling point.
Talk radio is a format well suited to people who need others to form their opinions. This is a top-down approach and a useful method for dispensing propaganda. It doesn’t necessarily mean that there couldn’t be Left leaning talk radio – there are lemmings on the Left just as on the Right.
What I find odd is that you are so critical of it. Perhaps it stems from your job outside this blog and the modern concern with framing, but ultimately, the truth will win out.
Rex and OxyCon: What is it you are trying to say? That until the advent of Rush Limbaugh, no one ever mocked Republicans or Conservatives?
Or are you trying to say that looking at liberal behavior and ideology with a sense of humor is the same as “hate”?
Because in the first case, you are saying that there were no comedians who added political commentaries to their routines. We know that’s not true.
In the second case, then, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, Lewis Black, George Carlin and George Lopez are all hate mongers, because they mock Pres. Bush, as do about a hundred other comedians.
Of course, he has an “opposing view”. He practically invented the phrase “talking points”.
Check out the “Total Stack of Stuff” for June 22 2007
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_062207/content/stack.guest.html
The reason I was (and am, even though I don’t listen anymore) glad that he made fun of liberals, is because they had it coming!
Not because I hated them, but because they were so self – righteous and pompous. Someone needed to burst their balloon, and there was no one out there doing it, until he came along.
And people went for it like sliced bread.
I live in Phoenix, and I have coworkers who legitimately believe that building a giant wall and deporting 12 million people is a good idea. I like to think they’re in the minority, even here, but sometimes it’s hard to say.
Frank: “In the second case, then, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, Lewis Black, George Carlin and George Lopez are all hate mongers, because they mock Pres. Bush, as do about a hundred other comedians.”
Oh, yeah, good point, because none of those comedians has EVER mocked a Democrat.
What I find odd is that you are so critical of it. Perhaps it stems from your job outside this blog and the modern concern with framing, but ultimately, the truth will win out.
If your remark is addressed to Oliver, I pretty much agree.
However, I have one quibble.
I don’t believe politics is about the truth, anymore than law is.
Picture a wenn diagram, where the universe is American political goals.
In the “universe” are two circles: Frank’s political goals; and zadura’s political goals.
Where they overlap, everything is fine. The art of politics is to get more and more of the circles to overlap.
Many people on the right are coming to believe that it has become the objective of the left to push the objectives of the right “out of the Universe.”
That, for us who call ourselves conservatives, is not the same as “Truth will out.”
Poor me, poor me, poor me.
Not because I hated them, but because they were so self – righteous and pompous. Someone needed to burst their balloon, and there was no one out there doing it, until he came along.
…Okay, I’m trying reeeeal fucking hard to follow you here…
You’re saying that Limbaugh represented the first time that Liberal politicians were criticised in the media? The first time Liberal idealogies were challenged? Or is it that he’s to be praised for being the first to outright mock them? Are you… no you can’t actually be under the impression that political cartoons didn’t exist before Limbaugh, nor that they would have expressed a purely liberal viewpoint, nobody’s that dense…
Okay no, you’re saying Limbaugh is a comedian then on par with Carlin and Black and Maher… except he’s on the radio and not a stage… and doesn’t go after both parties the way they do and… no so that can’t be it…
No, okay I got it now. Those comedians (and likewise the cartoons I mentioned) are proof that humorous (for a certain value of humor) political commentary is not a new phenomenon on the American landscape and that in that way Limbaugh is analogous to Carlin f’rinstance and that Limbaugh is to be praised for being the… first… to… do what had been done before…
…Okay I give. What the hell are you actually trying to argue here?
No it can’t be that if he’s trying to argue those comedians are liberal. Try to keep up, ‘tater.
No it can’t be that if he’s trying to argue those comedians are liberal. Try to keep up, ‘tater.
Thad
“Oh, yeah, good point, because none of those comedians has EVER mocked a Democrat.’
Bad point. Of course they will mock a conservative Democrat (ell Miller) or they will mock a liberal Democrat when said liberal takes anything other than a core left wing position. See Joe Lieberman.
Its funny how the totalitarian mind works. Liberals dominate main stream media (check out the recent pattern of political contributions by media types – liberals overwhelmingly dominate) and so conservatives go to AM talk radio – which nobody else wanted. So conservatives begin to become very popular with the people on talk radio. Liberals still dominate all other forms of media (Dan rather is busy rtying to steal elections for leftists), but they can’t stand it. Why conservatives are talking about issues they care about and have an outlet to do so. We can’t let this go on. Any speech we don’t like is hate speech. So now they are trying to ban talk radio via the Fairness Doctrine. Just put leftists in charge and conservatives can expect the same level of fairness and intellctual openess they permit on campus (Clue: none).
What BS!
Bad point. Of course they will mock a conservative Democrat (ell Miller) or they will mock a liberal Democrat when said liberal takes anything other than a core left wing position. See Joe Lieberman.
Yeah, because Clinton Never got jokes coming from everywhere for “it depends on what your definition of ‘is’ is.” Never happened.
Actually this’ll be an interesting test. Total up all the Zell Miller jokes and Joe Lieberman jokes you can recall, then total up all the Clinton jokes and Gore jokes you’ve ever heard and let us know which list is greater. I’m ever so curious.
Liberals dominate main stream media (check out the recent pattern of political contributions by media types – liberals overwhelmingly dominate)
That’s not proof that the media is liberal, though.
In fact, the MSM has a conservative bias (as shown in the coverage of the Iraq war, the pro-Bush and anti-Gore coverage in 2000, etc). That conservative bias can’t be explained by the leanings of the reporters, because, as you point out, they’re mostly personally liberal. So we have to find some other reason why their coverage is conservative.
But the conservative method makes no sense: it’s to say that if these reporters are liberal then the MSM coverage must be liberal. Read the damn papers and watch the damn news, guys. The reporters may be liberal, but their reporting is anti-liberal.
I love how these cons pretend as if we aren’t listening to every word Rush Limbaugh says.
Frank, Bill Maher’s show called “Politically INCcorrect” was created during the Clinton Presidency. The name and the format was designed to blow the lid off of the evil Librul’s “Political Correctness” and the show thrived on picking on and mocking the Clinton administration. When he became critical of the Bushies, the right wing mob scence issued one of their Fatwas to destroy him, and as usual, the 26 percenters flooded ABC with their patented “hate speech” emails threatening all kinds of nasty things to ABC if they didn’t cancel Maher’s show.
The Daily Show again began during the Clinton administration, and won many Emmys for blasting the Clinton administraion. To this day they mock Democrats. Tune in if you want some “He was making fun of liberals…It was fabulous!”
Geogre Carlin is anti-establishment, which means all authority whether it’s “Librul” or conservative, which is why there are so many forged, anti-Librul Carlin rant emails, created by right wingers, floating around the Internet.
Finally, Rush Limpbaugh has never said one thing in his life which anyone could ever find mildly amusing. To call him a comedian is ridiculous. He’s a pussified bully with a microphone who spews his hate speech on a daily basis. Some low lifes derive pleasure from listening to him character assasinate people. If they laugh at any of it, that is because these low lifes feel empowered by the hate Limpbaugh sends coursing through their veins.
I’m so utterly worthless and without purpose I have to resort to going “DUH” at double posts. On a Typepad blog. In my underwear.
Frank: “The reason I was (and am, even though I don’t listen anymore) glad that he made fun of liberals, is because they had it coming!
Not because I hated them, but because they were so self – righteous and pompous.”
Frank, are you saying that it’s OK to mock someone who is self-righteous and pompous? I ask because the last time I mocked you, you threw a freaking hissy fit.
“Its funny how the totalitarian mind works.”
Nice. Of course we know the damage that’s been done to The Dugger Mind thanks to idiotic assertions like this: “So now they are trying to ban talk radio via the Fairness Doctrine.”
Ban talk radio? That’s what the reinstating the Fairness Doctrine would do? Seriously?
I don’t really care about Limbaugh or Hannity’s sense of humor. What matters is that they regularly spew lies and deception such as “Totalitarian Liberals want to ban Talk Radio” and their loyal listeners eat it up and spit it back out without stopping to think for one second because they’d rather have an enemy than the truth.
Ban talk radio, Dugger? You’re an idiot.
“… conservatives can expect the same level of fairness and intellctual openess they permit on campus …”
When was the last time you were on a college campus, bright boy?
Again, the formula for right-wing talk radio is simple: Damn the facts, just feed the anxiety and stoke the anger and they’ll keep coming back for their daily jolt of self-righteousness.
Wow! You guys are hyperactive!
Let’s see if I can sort this out.
…Okay I give. What the hell are you actually trying to argue here?
It was the first time I heard, on radio, a guy saying funny things about liberals. The National Review had made fun of the things that liberals said and did for years, but they were quite genteel.
Liberal politicians and liberal pundits are, in the main, humorless. When it comes to comedians who mock republicans and conservatives, I often wonder why they can’t find anything funny about government in general, let alone liberals.
OxyCon: You’re probably the only guy on earth who doesn’t know that Bill Maher, Jon Stewart and George Carlin have consistently mocked and criticized republicans and conservatives for years.
Unless you really think I never watched them, or heard of them, or something.
As for Rush Limbaugh’s sense of humor, of course you’re not laughing — he’s making fun of you!
But think of Dennis Miller. He was a favorite of many people, until he supported Bush’s stand in Iraq.
Losing fans was no surprise, but the surprise was that suddenly liberals said he wasn’t funny anymore.
Total up all the Zell Miller jokes and Joe Lieberman jokes you can recall, then total up all the Clinton jokes and Gore jokes you’ve ever heard and let us know which list is greater.
Then, we’ll total up the jokes by stereotype:
“Who’s the well-meaning-but-fallible horndog? Who’s the stuffy intellectectual?”
… verses …
“Who’s the crayon-eating idiot? Who’s the pervert who gets off on writing a titillating report? Who reminds you of a Sith Lord?”
Just because comedians make Clinton jokes doesn’t mean they were attacking his policies. I daresay 90-95% of the Clinton/Gore jokes were personality-based. That’s in sharp contrast to jokes about Republicans, where if they’re not making fun of their (supposed lack of) intellect, they get raked over the coals for their policy positions. (Look who hates “queers”!)
“Liberal politicians and liberal pundits are, in the main, humorless.”
Cuz Rick Santorum and Trent Lott, hoo wee, what hoots …
The Fairness Doctrine is a joke and anybody that supports it is an imbecile.
And Strowbridge, perhaps you can point how being opposed to the amnesty portion of the bill equates to hating Mexicans.
As for talk radio itself, can you people please stop with “the hate” nonsense? It’s intellectually dishonest to simply write off the success of talk radio as nothing more than a haven for various ‘haters’ to rally around.
What such a mindset does is nothing but accomplish two things:
1. Give yourself an excuse not to truly know why conservative talk radio is successful.
2. Gives a ready made excuse for why liberal talk radio does so poorly. “Hey, we’re not haters, therefore we don’t have that built in audience to reach out to!”
In addition, let’s not pretend that the right has a monopoly on BS. How many people saw ‘Fahrenheit 911′ only to go off repeating every claim in that film over and over despite many of them being total bullshit? Liberals were happy to have a bunch of drones running around repeating all of it and then played the three monkeys game when asked about it. “Well, I’m not a Michael Moore supporter, so there’s nothing I can do about that!”
“But think of Dennis Miller. He was a favorite of many people, until he supported Bush’s stand in Iraq.
Losing fans was no surprise, but the surprise was that suddenly liberals said he wasn’t funny anymore.
Miller was always an unctuous asshole—and an ungenerous performer (name a decent ensemble piece he ever did on SNL and read what his co-horts said about him even then) who wore out his public welcome when his post SNL career bottomed out, because lo’ and behold, it became apparent that all he could do was flip his hair and do pop-culture snark.
Additionally, he—a supposedly current events comedian, ran the same jokes in his meager appearences over a three-year span, severely damaging his “brand”.
His alliance with “the right” was a marketing decison, to stoke interest again and make him appear somehow edgy, as the “witty guy on the right”.
It failed. He tanked. In the so-called “marketplace of ideas” wingnuts go on about in their defense of Hate Radio, all his alleged talent didn’t mean shit. His star had dimmed long before his lame attempt to become P.J. O’Rourke 2.0, and his general assholishness—legendary in “the busness” is what did it.
When “Larry, The Cable Guy” is a more popular comedian than an alleged “genius” like Miller—who comes with a humor “pedigree” and has had numerous promotional opportunities handed to him (Monday Night Football, His second show on CNBC, pilot appearances on O’Reilly)—well…
“BS. How many people saw ‘Fahrenheit 911′ only to go off repeating every claim in that film over and over despite many of them being total bullshit? ”
Like what?
“The Fairness Doctrine is a joke and anybody that supports it is an imbecile.”
How civil of you, Jay. What a guy.
For the record, the Fairness Doctrine worked and made sense in the media universe of three networks and public television. Now a days it would be ridiculous.
But let’s not try to rewrite history as if it’s liberals now trying to “ban” right wing talk radio by pushing a new version of it.
The Supreme Court upheld the Fairness Doctrine on constitutional grounds but the Reagan administration FCC that began the work of dismantling it in the mid-1980s. Let’s please not pretend that this was some altruistic pursuit of the First Amendment. The then rising right wing media machine didn’t want to have to accommodate opposing views, not the other way around.
Bear in mind that the Conservative idea of humour is insults. Not even insult humour. Insults.
Conservative “humo(u)r”
http://newsbusters.org/blog/56
Game, set, match.
http://newsbusters.org/taxonomy/term/257
That’s a “better” link.
Seem to remember loads of comedians mocking Clinton policy–”Don’t Ask-Don’t Tell”, goofing on Hillary’s involvement in health care reform—et.al.
And maybe…just maybe—the reason so much of GOP policy is “ridiculed” is because it simply leaves itself open…to ridicule. And sadly, the people they employ to promote said policies inadvertently (I hope) do it in laughable ways.
If it wasn’t funny, guess what—people wouldn’t laugh.
And they’re laughing. Hard.
Okay, “Bush is Hitler and where are my socks” is a decent punchline.
Once again, Frank, Dugger, Jay, et.al. prove our points.
And once again they show they are totally unaware of how they’re manipulated and used by the masters of propaganda who designed and run HateRadio, and whose ideas and talking points they spout without realizing that their ideas were implanted!.
Liberal Radio has been an outstanding success despite the right-wing attempts to shut it down..
In less than three years, the Air America Network has grown to close to a hundred stations nationwide, and are now heard in almost as many markets as HateRadio.
Liberal hosts like Ed Schultz and Randi Rhodes regularly beat Hannity and even Rush in major markets.
And they could beat them head-to-head, but the right-wing’s darlings are PROTECTED!! In many large US markets, like NYC, they have ahold of the strongest signal, and they are supported by strong marketing monies and regular appearances and mentions on FOX and the Conservative Media, and nurtured by the Conservative welfare system of sponsored forums, books, appearances, and think-tank posts.
Billo, Sean, Boortz, Beck regularly swap appearances on FOX in front of millions of captive viewers. When was the last time you saw Ed Schultz or Randi on TV? I rest my case.
HateRadio has nothing to do with ideas, only ideology and manipulation and propaganda.
GO ahead and defend it. I am happy that people who care about the PUBLIC, not PRIVATE, PUBLIC airwaves are aware of the horrifying job Conservative money has done in creating a right-wing propaganda tool using public-access resources.
And I hope they will be strong enough to change it for the benefit of ALL Americans.
You wingnuts will still have Pajamas Media, Politico, NewsMax, the Ole Perfesser, Instaputz, HindRocket, the foetid Michelle Malkin, OpinionJournal, Investors’ Business Daily, Scarborough, Beck, Coulter, Levin, the list goes and on.
But in the trademark-typical right-wing whiny titty baby style “But Talk Radio is alllll we havvveeee!!!” the victim card comes out again: The true mark of the Conservative Movement.
How many people saw ‘Fahrenheit 911′ only to go off repeating every claim in that film over and over despite many of them being total bullshit?
Quite a few. In fact, I’d bet that it was roughly the same as the number of conservatives who ran around declaring that F-911 was a bunch of lies even though they hadn’t bothered to see the movie!
The Fairness Doctrine is a joke and anybody that supports it is an imbecile.
Were you talking to anyone in particular there, Jay? No one here was talking about the Fairness Doctrine until Dugger brought it up and you rendered your sweeping judgment.
“And Strowbridge, perhaps you can point how being opposed to the amnesty portion of the bill equates to hating Mexicans.”
I’m not saying you have to be racist to oppise a pathway to citizenship. However, the fact is the Minutemen recruit from Stormwatch, a white supremacy group, so your side is filled with racists.