I’m not surprised. Doing business with the people you are fighting is not a big deal considering the screw-ups in the past.

(It is important to note the plans discussed in that link are not the same as what actually happened. “Limited military action,” is not the same as regime change.)

On the other hand, the links are even less than convincing that the US needed 9/11 to attack Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Osama bin Ladden had attacked the U.S. before 9/11, in fact, he attacked the U.S.S. Cole less than a year before. And the US had fired cruise missles into Afghanistan in the past.

So to claim 9/11 was an inside job to start the war is a joke.

C.S.: “No, shit for brains, they were doing business with Afghanistan…”

Actually, C.S., they may have been doing both.

Link

Then why aren’t they dispearing? Any yes, you fucking idiot, you would know about it because these people have friends and family, they would notice if their brother / son / co-worker disappeared one day. There would be reports on the Internet over their disapperances.

(Of course, you freaks would probably blame UFOs or Bigfoot.)

“Look at the airline manifests, which have to be absolutely accurate for insurance purposes…no Arabs.”

How would you know? The information you are looking for has not been made public.

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/passengers.html

“It has been claimed that the names of the hijackers were on the airlines’ flight manifests. However, there is no public evidence of this. Researchers who have attempted to obtain this information from the airlines have been rebuffed.”

Maybe you guys should get your lies straight. The information has not been made public, so you are making claims without evidence.

“this tape was debunked (point by point) virtually days after it was released”

Yes, debunked by the same people who think lighting a fire under some chicken wire proves the WTC were destroyed by a controlled implosion.

“same government that was planning to attack Afghanistan *before* 9/11 took place.”

No, shit for brains, they were doing business with Afghanistan, they were planning on attacking Iraq.

“Look, there’s a whole gigantic list of sites”

And you should watch Opération Lune. Maybe then you realize how easy it is to paint a conspiracy where none exists.

Not too quick on the uptake, are you. There are mega-millions who doubt the official 9/11 tale but they’re gonna focus on me? I was suggesting that there are unknown numbers of people in “secret” prisons…perhaps some of them are a greater *threat* than I am.

the list of victims would not include the hijackers because, and this is confusing logic here so pay close attentions, they are not victims?

Oh Jesus! I’ve had this conversation with more than a few people but not one of them were desperate enough to try this one! Look at the airline manifests, which have to be absolutely accurate for insurance purposes…no Arabs. You think the Army excluded the “hijackers” because they weren’t victims? Read the report again, there are no exemptions like that (no matter how badly you wish it were so).

By the way, what do you make of the tape where Osama Bin Ladden discusses the success of their plans to attack the WTC?

Good grief! Take a GOOD LOOK at that “Osama”. See anything different?
He’s a completely different man, this tape was debunked (point by point) virtually days after it was released by the same government that was planning to attack Afghanistan *before* 9/11 took place. You DO know that war plans were sitting on his desk on 9/11, right…they don’t even bother to deny that.

Look, there’s a whole gigantic list of sites you need to be visiting to see this stuff, rather than hiding your head in the sand. If you check it out and you still think it’s bogus, well….at least you looked into it.

Cause you are still posting. You would think your exposure of their plan would be enough to get you killed or sent off to GitMo, but it hasn’t. So either your evidence isn’t as Convincing as you think it is, or there’s not conspiracy here.

“I’m a “kook” and a “crazy”, right?”

Yes.

“What danger could I pose to them when a mind as razor sharp as Oliver’s puts up a wall and refuses to even *look* at the evidence?”

I have looked at the evidence. Just like I’ve looked at the evidence for the second gunman in the JFK assassination. It looks convincing cause there are always a few details left out.

For instance, did it ever occur to anyone that the list of victims would not include the hijackers because, and this is confusing logic here so pay close attentions, they are not victims?

The FoIA doesn’t mean you get all the information you ask for.

Me: “You just described the Iraq war (nearly) perfectly.”

The True Believer: “No shit? Did that fly right past you or do you now get that these guys (“Please don’t kill me…”) are cold blooded murderers that don’t care how many people die at their hands? That the deaths of American citizens mean nothing to them?”

Serious question, how dumb are you?

You said I refused to believe the evidence because I couldn’t accept these people killing innocent people for political goals. I just said that I believe they are killing people in Iraq for political goals. Therefore that is not the problem. The problem is the evidence.

“Sometime, eventually, you’ll “get” what actually happened”

I would say the same of you, but no amount of evidence will persuade the true believer.

By the way, what do you make of the tape where Osama Bin Ladden discusses the success of their plans to attack the WTC?

Umm…how would we know? Who’s in Gitmo and all of those CIA secret prisons? Do you know? Anyway, why would they worry? They’ve got people like you so convinced of their bizzare anti-Arab drama that people like me are marginalized. I’m a “kook” and a “crazy”, right? What danger could I pose to them when a mind as razor sharp as Oliver’s puts up a wall and refuses to even *look* at the evidence?

Of course, I’m not involved with the plot. If I were, I’d be runnin’ scared:

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20020212_991.html

http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/local_news/article/0,1426,MCA_437_985827,00.html

http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/local_news/article/0,1426,MCA_437_1016243,00.html

Funny thing, that.

You just described the Iraq war (nearly) perfectly.

No shit? Did that fly right past you or do you now get that these guys (“Please don’t kill me…”) are cold blooded murderers that don’t care how many people die at their hands? That the deaths of American citizens mean nothing to them?

Here’s the problem, what you’ve given us has no backing.

No backing? Are you out of your fucking mind??? I told Oliver I would spare him the thousands of links that I could provide because I figured his readers had at least a passing familarity with Google! You need the FOIA documents? Sure, I’m happy to provide them:

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/02/article_tro.htm

I’ve gone out of my way to be civil about this and have kept this comment section as link-free as possible. Like I told Oliver, I wanted him to actually think about these things, rather than providing the entire chain of evidence (which has been done plenty of times elsewhere and is usually just deleted rather than actually pursued by *avoidists* like yourself).

Sometime, eventually, you’ll “get” what actually happened and all of this bullshit you’ve tossed into the air to shield yourself from the truth is going to seem rather pathetic to you, which, yeah…it is.

Shut the fuck up, you ignorant loser. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about when in comes to statistics if you blast polls like that. And when the actually voting happens and Ron Paul gets 2, may 3 percent you will be shocked and I will laugh.

“You can’t handle the thought of it. I can understand your panic.”

How’s this for logic? You are claiming Cheney, Bush, et al killed 3000 Americans, but they decided to let you live and spread the ‘truth’ about them.

If they are willing to kill that many people, they are willing to kill you to keep it quiet. Yet I don’t see a rash of Truthers out there ending up dead.

“No one wants to think that their government lies to them, sends their own citizens to their deaths and tries to pin it on a convenient enemy”

You just described the Iraq war (nearly) perfectly.

“If I’m such a half-wit wacko it ought to be child’s play to show me where I’m wrong.”

Here’s the problem, what you’ve given us has no backing. I can’t argue about the FoIA documents because you gave none. You gave almost no name, no information, no details. Nothing of substance.

You go no counter-argument, because there’s nothing to argue against.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think I’ve ever seen “Loose Change”…maybe I should track it down. It’d be nice if you could point to somewhere in my post where I was “talking patent nonsense” as what I wrote is all verifiable. Need a link to something? Let me know, I’m here to help.

For what it’s worth, your reaction is fairly standard for folks on liberal blogs (which I find a bewildering facet of my fellows). I don’t mind that *avoidance* is so prevalent, it’s the inability to recognize the avoidance that I find frustrating. This is a very difficult thing we’re talking about, I know. No one wants to think that their government lies to them, sends their own citizens to their deaths and tries to pin it on a convenient enemy, but it happens. Even students of history have a hard time grappling with the fact that history repeats itself, that we’re not in some golden, saintly era where such things would never take place. Unfortunately, human nature remains pretty consistent (and yes, that’s almost too depressing).

Yeah, you can brush me off by telling your audience that I’m not capable of participating in a logical conversation but the truth of the matter is that you’re unwilling to participate in one. If I’m such a half-wit wacko it ought to be child’s play to show me where I’m wrong.

Ok.

You can’t handle the thought of it. I can understand your panic.

Reports have him around $5 mil, plenty at this point for a thrifty campaign. There are multiple groups in nearly every state that already have organized plans to hit up the early primary states, conventions, caucuses, straw polls and whatever other event is happening. You can check out what many of them are up to over at meetup.com.

Most right wing bloggers were spouting this crap a month ago.

I cannot have a logical conversation with someone talking patent nonsense.

I’m more real than you’ll ever be.

You can live in your little internet land, but I’ve been to the Ron Paul flash-and-lood meet-ups. Hardly anybody there was a truther, but there were a couple. There were Democrats, Republicans, Independents and Libertarians. Men and women, veterans, a Congressional candidate, financial advisers, and a welfare recipient. Black, white, Mexican, Asian.

We’re uniting people without legislation. Imagine that!

What, based on a few paid-for, un-scientific telephone polls of an extremely small percentage of Americans? Go ahead and base your perception on those polls while accusing others of lacking logic. Hilariously ironic.

It doesn’t matter. Onlu 1% of Republicans support him. That’s less than the number of Democrats that support Bush.