“Hillary Pledges to Lift Ban on Stem Cell Research as President.” On the flip-flop flip side, Mitt Romney is still trying to smooth talk his way through his pretzel-like position on the issue.
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It’s not a ban! It’s just a funding restriction thingy! You’re a no good lying liar! Etc!
Hillary Clinton would allow federal funding of embryonic stem cell research.
Close your eyes and repeat:
Embryonic
Funding
Embryonic
Funding
Embryonic
Funding
Embryonic
Funding …
Right, it’s a ban.
If there was really big promise in that area, every investor in the country would be lining up behind it.
Anyway, as a recent Romney column pointed out, recent developments put us very close to finding a solution that will allow us to do this kind of research WITHOUT the ethical controversy.
Destorying life to EXPERIEMENT with it is inhumane.
If there was really big promise in that area, every investor in the country would be lining up behind it.
Most scientific research doesn’t net high returns, so no, not really. And don’t both mentioning drugs, that only works because of patent laws that specifically pertain to medicinal drugs.
Destorying life to EXPERIEMENT with it is inhumane.
Prove that it’s life.
Matt-A: “Destorying life to EXPERIEMENT with it is inhumane.”
Yeah. They should throw the embryos in the trash, the way Jesus would want it. That’s the humane way to go.
We should just ban all federally-funded scientific research altogether and hope that one day, if we legislate enough roadblocks, the United States will become a net technology importer!
We want to be absolutely sure that if any babies are dying — even the slimmest chance — we’re in on it.
Newest plank in Democratic Platform for 2008
We want to be absolutely sure that if any babies are dying — even the slimmest chance — we’re in on it.
Newest plank in Democratic Platform for 2008
ND: Let’s pretend we’re going to wash them, then gas ‘em and burn ‘em.
Oh, wait… Been there,done that.
Prove that it’s life.
Hmm…my comment here has been ignored. I wonder why.
ND: Let’s pretend we’re going to wash them, then gas ‘em and burn ‘em.
Oh, wait… Been there,done that.
Wow, speaking as a Jew, I find that comment really offensive. How dare you compare stem cell research to the Holocaust. How dare you use the suffering of my people for a political cheap shot. That’s lower than low.
Also, Frankie, what do you propose we do with the embryos that aren’t going to be used? You want them?
fix italics
I seem to remember that this “Frankie” person to whom you refer was offended in perhaps a dozen or more ways. I don’t remember you leading the charge to defend his delicate sensibilities.
The advice he was given most might work for you: Stop whining!
Let me know how it works. I’d be interested.
BTW, zarathustra, or whatever your name is, when did you convert to Judaism?
A few days ago, I recall, you were a devotee of Zahurism, or Haruri, or something like that. What happened?
Offending a single, thin-skinned baby simply by existing isn’t the same as offending an entire race of people by using the fucking Holocaust as a cheap shot against scientific research.
However, having done so, and if you harbour designs on being at all a decent human being, you have two choices: apologise, or get out.
I have a third choice, Master - at - Arms.
Legalized abortion is a holocaust, and far more lives have been sacrificed on the altar of feminism than were taken by the Nazis.
So my third alternative is to tell you, Nimrod Gently, to enjoy a steaming hot cup of Shut The Fuck Up.
Okay, you’re completely insane and incapable of talking and, presumably, thinking rationally. Thanks for the heads-up. Now go away.
Legalized abortion is a holocaust?
Equal rights for Blastocyst-Americans!
Frank, you really should get some Prilosec or something for that Bullshit Reflux disease you have going.
I’m not a jew and I am also offended by your false equivalence. That was a cheap shot and not at all an equal comparison.
Though I suppose your chest freezer is packed with frozen embryos, isn’t it?
Here’s an alternative to destroying embryos.
Now will you set your sights on Islamofascists instead of innocent occupants of the womb?
You know, Nimrod, it was annoying enough when you (obviously in a fever brought on by dedication to freedom of speech - for liberals) told fd10801 to go away over and over, and over and over, and over and over, and over and over, and over, and over and over — well, you get the picture.
Don’t be so stupid and annoying to me now. Just comment, or don’t comment.
You don’t tell me to go away, and I won’t tell you to go away.
I continue to be amazed at some people’s open willingness to assist America in losing its competitive advantage. Whether the issue is creationism, global warming, or embryonic stem cell research, etc., it is almost like they are clamoring for the day that we take orders from more advanced countries just as we give orders today. Thankfully, I think such people are in the minority.
Say what you will about abortion, I think most of us here agree that we could’ve used one more of ‘em.
Now will you set your sights on Islamofascists instead of innocent occupants of the womb?
Yes, of course, because Right-to-Life ends at birth.
Poor little Frank. Stop talking bollocks and being a deliberately provocative twat, and everyone will stop reacting to it.
Nimrod Gently, respect your elders and remember this is Frank DiSalle’s (aka Lysander Spooner II) Comment Blog merely hosted by Oliver Willis.
BTW, zarathustra, or whatever your name is, when did you convert to Judaism?
A few days ago, I recall, you were a devotee of Zahurism, or Haruri, or something like that. What happened?
I never converted TO Judaism, I was born Jewish. Secondly, who says that I can’t be both? They’re not mutually exclusive. Thirdly, even if they were, I still respect and take pride in my Jewish blood and heiritage. OF course, I don’t expect a creep like you to understand any of this.
By the way, you have yet to answer this simple request.
Prove that it’s life.
How conveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenient.
Say what you will about abortion, I think most of us here agree that we could’ve used one more of ‘em.
Funny, I count about three, on this thread alone.
I have an idea: Let’s pretend that none of you have anything to say, so you simply waste your time attacking me.
Oh, wait…
We’re doing that.
Do you think your childish behavior impresses me?
Worse, do you think it impresses your buddies? Is that what this is about? “Let’s see who can level the coolest insult at Lysander Spooner II*?”
See, here’s how it works: You guys are like the “Dark Side” of liberalism. You have no compassion, no tolerance, no open mindedness. You know just about as much as anybody does about anything, but you act like you have super secret data, and inside sources of information that clue you in on everything.
You sincerely believe that what you believe is a fact, and people who disagree with have uneducated opinions. Those unfortunate few will change their minds as soon as they have read a sufficient amount of New York Times articles.
You expect all kinds of sensitivity from public figures, and of course, from me, yet you call me vile names, and wish me dead, and worse; and, yet, you see no inconsistency.
Assholes.
* Do you think I changed my handle to trick you? I changed it to give you a chance to stop this time wasting bullshit, for which Oliver was constantly blaming me. You rose to the occasion.
wah.
Waaaaaahhh.
WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH.
ou have no compassion, no tolerance, no open mindedness.
Yes, how DARE we not have compassion, tolerance, & open mindedness for making light of the holocaust, torture, homophobia, and misogyny. How DARE WE!!!!11!11!1one!111!!1
Lysander Spooner II | Jun 16, 2007 9:38:08 PM
“Do you think your childish behavior impresses me?”
“Worse, do you think it impresses your buddies?”
“Assholes.”
“I changed [my handle] to give you a chance to stop this time wasting bullshit, for which Oliver was constantly blaming me. You rose to the occasion.”
Thank you for a great laugh, Frank. It doesn’t matter what your handle is. It’s easy to guess your identity by reading the content of your comments.
squirrel: And I can guess your handle by the lack of content of your scribblings. Not to mention the fact that I already said that I had no intention of fooling anyone.
How’s that “Is water wet?” experiment working out?
Now when you’re done fucking around, children, does anyone have a comment?
“It’s not a ban! It’s just a funding restriction thingy! You’re a no good lying liar! Etc!”
It is a ban. If you do Embryonic Stell Cell research, you get no money for anything that can be used to do Embryonic Stell Cell research. This includes buying test tubes.
It is a defacto ban.
“Legalized abortion is a holocaust, and far more lives have been sacrificed on the altar of feminism than were taken by the Nazis.”
Thank you. Now I can completely ignore you, you fucking idiot.
Legalized abortions save lives because, as it says in the bible, the unborn are people and therefore aren’t lives that need to be saved.
Now I can completely ignore you
If only you would. Please. PLEASE.
the unborn are people and therefore aren’t lives that need to be saved.
No. I mean yes. Er,no… Wait, I mean, yes.
Huh?
No. I mean yes. Er,no… Wait, I mean, yes.
Huh?
Hey, it’s no more confusing than the garbage that you type. Though an elaboration would be nice.
Nimrod, cut it out
Uh, that last one was me. Don’t know what happened there.
Zython, cut it out.
“the unborn are people and therefore aren’t lives that need to be saved.”
“No. I mean yes. Er,no… Wait, I mean, yes.
Huh?”
Damnit. That’s what happens when you type too fast.
According to the Bible, the unborn are not people and can not be murdered. They are property. In fact, they are property of the man, and not the woman they are currently in.
According to the Bible, the unborn are not people and can not be murdered.
I’m glad you cleared that up. You’re wrong, you ignorant bastard.
“Jewish” is a race as well as a religion, Frank. The majority are both, but plenty of people are one and not the other. Walter Sobchak for example.
Nimrod Gently: Are you commenting seriously?
To me?
Why,in God’s name would you do that?
Is there some reason why every one has a handle but me?
Is there some reason why you can tell me to shut up and / or go away, about half of the time, and then actually say something serious to me?
What the hell is wrong with you?
And isn’t Walter Sobchak a character in a movie?
Leave me alone, Nimrod…
Make an old man happy.
Frank, it’s you. You’re the problem, not me.
I’m glad you cleared that up. You’re wrong, you ignorant bastard.
Exodus 21:22. You can submit your written apology to C.S. either by mail or by fax.
Or directly to the Canadian embassy in DC.
That verse is about a miscarriage suffered while someone else is in a fight. What could that possibly have to do with abortion, or the humanity of a fetus?
Try here
and here
and here
This is basic stuff for any person who is pro-life. That’s why I knew CSS was wrong in an instant.
You’re the problem, not me.
That verse is about a miscarriage suffered while someone else is in a fight. What could that possibly have to do with abortion, or the humanity of a fetus?
*sigh* The punishment for “killing” a fetus in that verse is a monetary fine. This equates “killing” a fetus to property damage, which means that according to that verse, fetus != life. I understand why you didn’t get it. Understanding the law in that regard requires common sense, which isn’t so common these days.
Zython: Spare me the “sighs” you ignoramus. The person in the bible citation is not even accused of murdering the child.
And, you conveniently left out the next verse: But if she is seriously injured, the payment will be life for life
*sigh*
Did you read the THREE links, chock full of Bible citations that indicate that life exists in the womb?
Did you?
And, you conveniently left out the next verse: But if she is seriously injured, the payment will be life for life
That’s because the woman herself was seriously injured. Typical “pro-lifer”, scrambling to find the slightest trace of personhood in a fetus while dismissing the personhood of the woman entirely.
Did you read the THREE links, chock full of Bible citations that indicate that life exists in the womb?
Did you?
Yes, and I think I can break them up into 3 categories.
1/3 of the quotes can be genuinely interpereted to be pro-life.
1/3 of them seem to be grasping at straws.
1/3 of them come from the book of Luke in the New Testiment, so I didn’t care either way*.
All you proved with that is that the Bible contradicts itself. BIG SUPRISE!
*Hey, would YOU care if I quoted pro-choice material from the Talmud?
First of all, I would be amazed if you could find pro - choice quotes in the Talmud (you are aware that that is not the Bible, Jewish or otherwise?)
The Bible is the Bible. I don’t care if you accept it or not (although I suspect you accept none of it, and this is all bullshit).
You’re trying to defend CSS’s incorrect statement, and you don’t even know what Biblical references he intended to use. You have classified one third of the citations as “grasping at straws” without support, and you claim that the Bible contradicts itself without support.
Give it up while you are way behind.
Me: “According to the Bible, the unborn are not people and can not be murdered.”
Frank: “I’m glad you cleared that up. You’re wrong, you ignorant bastard.”
Nope. According to the bible ‘killing’ the unborn is a property crime.
Frank: “The person in the bible citation is not even accused of murdering the child.
And, you conveniently left out the next verse: But if she is seriously injured, the payment will be life for life”
Oh my god! Fucking hell, Frank, you just proved my point.
‘Killing’ the fetus is a property crime worthy of just a fine. Killing the mother is murder punishable by death. And it can’t even be a property crime if the woman asks for the procedure to be done. (Unless you are going to claim it is the man who gets to make these decisions. And I’d love the anti-abortion movement to be that transparent in their claims.)
As for you fucking links, they are full of the same bullshit logic.
Link: ‘God knew this person before he was born. Therefore life begins and conception.’
However, the Bible states that god knew Samson before he was conceived. Does that mean every sperm and eggs are living people who can be murdered? If so, every man is a mass murdered and every woman is a serial killer.
If so, every man is a mass murdered and every woman is a serial killer.
Straw man! Straw man!
As to the Exodus citation, anyone who knows anything about Bible study, or for that matter, the interpretation of any literature, knows that you don’t take one sentence out of a work, and say IT somehow outweighs the meaning of several other excerpts from all over the same work.
Those web sites barely scratch the surface of the Biblical support for opposition to abortion.
But you keep waving that verse around.
Me: “If so, every man is a mass murderer and every woman is a serial killer.”
Frank: “Straw man! Straw man!”
Prove it.
“As to the Exodus citation, anyone who knows anything about Bible study, or for that matter, the interpretation of any literature, knows that you don’t take one sentence out of a work, and say IT somehow outweighs the meaning of several other excerpts from all over the same work.”
I’m not, Frank. The Bible is clear. The unborn are property. Children are property. Wives are property.
You ignore all of that cause you think a fetus is a man’s property and worth more than the woman it’s in.
The conversation ends here. The Bible does not condone abortion on the basis of one verse from Exodus, compared to dozens of other verses, which you have chosen to disqualify.
The “sperm / egg” argument is bogus for two reasons. First of all, God is omniscient, and is therefore aware of the future of those eggs and sperm cells.
Second, it requires conception for the life making process to begin.
Two other points worth pointing out. There is now a process in existence to recreate blastocyte like tissue. Using embryos is no longer required.
One more thing: I don’t care for the “when does life begin?” argument anymore. I assume that life exists in the womb.
But, setting that aside, the end result of pregnancy is childbirth. We have no right — not men or women — to thwart that process.
You can talk about Internet entertainment all you want, Clem, but you don’t know Jack about the Bible.
“One more thing: I don’t care for the “when does life begin?” argument anymore. I assume that life exists in the womb.”
That’s right, Frank. You don’t care, you’ve already made up your mind and nothing will change it. A book that says the punishment for raping an unbetrothed woman is marriage trumps all other considerations when it comes to morality.
“You can talk about Internet entertainment all you want, Clem, but you don’t know Jack about the Bible.”
I know the punishment for swearing at your parents is death.
I know it says you can murder 100 people and still get into heaven, but if you are a male-female transexual you can never get it.
I’ve read the Bible, that’s why I am an atheist.
As to the Exodus citation, anyone who knows anything about Bible study, or for that matter, the interpretation of any literature, knows that you don’t take one sentence out of a work, and say IT somehow outweighs the meaning of several other excerpts from all over the same work.
What the hell are you talking about? Your ilk does it with opposition to homosexuality all thie time.
“What the hell are you talking about? Your ilk does it with opposition to homosexuality all thie time.”
The same verses that attack homosexuality attack shellfish. You don’t see Fred Phelps picketing Red Lobster.
The Bible is a long book that was written by dozens, and perhaps hundreds of men over 1000+ years. It is full of contradictions and vagueness and you can quote from it to justify any action you want. Which is why you should never quote from it for anything.
Any book that says every life is sacred and you should kill 1000 virgins as a sacrafice to god is worthless when it comes to morality.
Hey, Clem! You brought up the Bible, not me…
Legalized abortions save lives because, as it says in the bible, the unborn are[n't] people and therefore aren’t lives that need to be saved.
Jun 17, 2007 12:29:57 AM
“Hey, Clem! You brought up the Bible, not me…”
So are you telling me you don’t use the Bible as a source for morality?
No, I was reminding you that YOU said, “Any book that says every life is sacred and you should kill 1000 virgins as a sacrifice to god is worthless when it comes to morality,” but you brought it up.
That’s either inconsistent, contradictory, or hypocritical.
I didn’t mention the Bible, you did. Are you telling you brought up the Bible for no reason?
“but you brought it up.”
Cause it’s the book you base you morality on. It is the book that every Christian bases their morality on.
I’m just pointing out that even in the Bible you can find a pro-Choice message.
I’m just pointing out that even in the Bible you can find a pro-Choice message.
What you found was a citation that could be used by pro-abortion people to support their cause.
Hence, Shakespeare’s famous line: “The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. “
Me: “I’m just pointing out that even in the Bible you can find a pro-Choice message.”
Frank: “What you found was a citation that could be used by pro-abortion people to support their cause.
Hence, Shakespeare’s famous line: “The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.”
And there’s a reason for that, Frank. The bible isn’t the word of god, but merely the writings of hundreds of men over thousands of years. Men with political goals that affected what they wrote. It is no more useful in determining morality than MacBeth.
Cheating Is, is not Unacceptable!
I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen. I’ve just been letting everything wash over me. I can’t be bothered with anything recently.
I feel like a fog, not that it matters. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing , but eh. Today was a loss. I haven’t gotten much done for a while.
Sex offenders should be, should not be castrated
Help the homeless down the street and persuade them to look for work
Gay couples should be, should not be allowed to marry