You mean like how defense as a percentage of GDP is completely irrelevant, because the actual money the government can spend in the budget- the Federal discretionary funds- has over 65% devoted in 2008 to the DoD? Yeah, I can see how that would suck to you, what with it proving how utterly full of shit you are.

I was waiting for the juvenile pseudo-Libertarian “only a small part when you use math even the government doesn’t” bullshit, and you truly did not fail to disappoint.

I owe SaveFarris an apology. To have thought that was fucking stupid….

While I concede your point regarding the tyrrany of the majority to a degree, if you’re insisting that the idea of providing govt funds to a medical research project when the majority of the public supports it, then are you trying to suggest that, for instance, Govt funding going to curing cancer is tyrranical? Seriously I’m kind of drowning in the cognative dissonance here.

Wendeler, I curse because I’m not a strong enough person to deal with your brand of idiocy without getting so annoyed as to lose my desire to talk civilly to you and your ilk. I suppose its a personal problem.

“Have 75% income tax at the state level and reduce fed inc taxes to what state taxes are today. People in each state would be able to choose what “government services” they want to “invest in” and the Feds would only be involved in the Common Defense and other enumerated powers in the Constitution.”

That’s not what we’re debating here, Wendy. We’re debating the topic of federal funding for stem cell research within our current system. If you want to talk about federalism on a broader scale (e.g., not pertaining solely to stem cell research), and talk about a massive revolution in the United States’ tax codes… well, I think we can find more common ground there than you might think. But again, that’s not what we’re talking about.

“And, keep in mind that there is a heck of a lot more social spending in the fed government budget than defense spending.”

—What’s your point, man? This has little to nothing to do with what we’re supposed to be talking about. Stop all the diversion.

“Instead, you want to decide what’s best for everyone. How arrogant.”

Yes, like a parent telling their 4-year-old kid to eat their vegetables… I’m telling everyone what’s best for them. That may be arrogant, but its also right.

Arguing with you people is like a Martian talking to a fungo.

Or, Screw you Guys, I’m going home.

And Mambo, why not let federalism be your guide, instead of imposing some one-size fits all solution?

Have 75% income tax at the state level and reduce fed inc taxes to what state taxes are today. People in each state would be able to choose what “government services” they want to “invest in” and the Feds would only be involved in the Common Defense and other enumerated powers in the Constitution.

So, you could move to Vermont or Washington D.C. and create your socialist utopia with all the social programs you want. “Free” healthcare, “free” abortions on demand, “free” needles, “free” condoms, etc. (Free’s great as long as you can afford it.)

Meanwhile, all the Christo-fascists could move to Jesusland, marry their 1st cousin and avoid lifesaving cures like the plague.

Instead, you want to decide what’s best for everyone. How arrogant.

And, keep in mind that there is a heck of a lot more social spending in the fed government budget than defense spending. In fact, if you were to compare each of the categories at that site to the GDP for each year, I think you’d see that Defense spending is declining as a % of GDP while social spending is constant or increasing as a % of GDP.

Facts… they suck.

Well?

And with that, I give up. I get it. Chimpy McBushHitler stops those noble scientists from doing the research he wants. Got it.

A Majority of people in the 1800s approved of slavery, even though it was morally wrong (then and now). Does that mean that the federal government should have subsidized it? I mean, a majority likes it.

That’s called the tyranny of the majority. One of the reasons we have a Republic is to mitigate such tyranny.

Public funds do go to cancer research.

Public funds do go to alternative energy (with lackluster results, unfortunately).

Public funds do go to subsidize wasteful & idiotic agriculture (sugar)

Public funds do go to Stem Cell Research.

And regardless of what the majority wants, Stem Cell Research (embryonic and otherwise) is currently happening. And the feds are even funding some embryonic stem cell research.

Oh, and MamboChick - You say that you’re a scientist in one comment, yet you swear like a 12th grader. What gives? Most scientists I know write and speak more intelligently than anything you’ve written here.

Yeah. Right on! Except maybe if there was more funding for it then scientists could develop said life-saving cures.

Why do you (Farris, Brian, Wendeler) think that embryonic stem cell research should be held to a different standard than other types of research that ARE federally funded? Why should ridiculously unpopular and wasteful “ideas” like the Iraq war deserve federal funding, while embryonic stem cell research does not? Why should I, as a taxpayer wholly disapproving of everything this administration has strived to do, pay taxes to the federal government for the funding of this activity in lieu of programs I actually WANT my tax dollars to go to?

I don’t know the answer to the first two questions, but I know the answer to the third: because that’s the way our fucking system works. Some of your tax dollars are gonna go to places that you don’t want them to go. That’s the way it is, and the way it has to be. Chaos and a wholesale lack of tax revenue is the other option, if people were to give just what they wanted in taxes.

Anyway, my point… you guys are dicks.

I said potential majority simply because this topic is not on the radar screen of most voters. So while polls may show that voters support government funding of stem cells, that doesn’t mean that they support it so much that they will “throw the bums out” over it if they don’t override a president’s veto, etc.

Most people if given a choice between life saving cures on one hand, and pretty much anything else on the other are going to choose the life saving cures. Even though there’s not a single life saving cure thats been developed with embryonic stems cells.

Hint to the Democratic party, put these initiatives on state ballots like Missouri did, there’s an argument to be made that Senator Jim Talent lost due in large part to this measure.

“Potential” Majority my aching ass, firstly. Secondly, um, I’m not sure how to say this that doesn’t come off condescending, but see the thing is thats kinda how representative government works. If the majority of the people want it and want it funded with their money, it should get funded. Beats the opposite paradigm with Iraq, where the majority have to fund the war that only about 1 in 4 people want anymore, but thats a seperate discussion. If 60% of the people support funding for embryonic stem cell research(and an undecided 5% doesn’t seem to mind it enough to oppose it) then why shouldn’t it get funded.

St Wendy: I’m trying to make sure I’m following here, you’re arguing that the existence of capitalism proves that science is a conspiracy?

Or okay, I’ll try to be fair. Are you arguing that, since its possible for potentially life-saving medical research to yield comercially viable products, that no public funds should ever support such projects, even when the public at large in fact does support them? No public funds whatsoever then to, say, cancer research? To alternative energy? Disease prevention? Nothing? You want to leave all medical research to whatever is so deemed necessary by the existing commercial demand for it?

…well if I’ve gotten that wrong let me know. Or if I’ve gotten it right, I hope all the Enzyte, Zoloft and Propecia helps take your mind off all the heart attacks.

Stem Cell Research (embryonic and otherwise) is occurring every day in this country.

Really? It seems that a potential majority are trying to have everyone else buck up. Under the silly theory that only the federal government could fund this sort of research.

An often expressen opinion, which on its face seems to ignore that the majority of tax-paying Americans support Stem Cell Research, and support using taxpayer funds to finance research into it. We, the majority, are trying to buck up, like you say, so if you could, please don’t stand in our way.