We are a nation of 300 million plus people. This is who NBC’s Chris Matthews chose to have on as an expert to discuss the homeland security implications of the quarantined TB patient:
Yes, Michael Brown, Bush-administration Arabian horse show expert who was put in charge of FEMA and prceeded to do such a “heck of a job” that New Orleans drowned, and people died unnecessarily. In other words there are probably a few hundred million people more qualified and knowledgeable for Matthews to have on discussing important issues but he chose the failure.
Uh- please explain to me how FEMA caused New Orleans to “drown” and how they caused “people to die unnecessarily?”
Do you even know what FEMA does?
And this bullshit that the federal government reacted slow? What a crock!
That is one of those ‘big lies’ that is repeated so often that so many people believe it’s true. Where do you think the United States Coast Guard is from? Canada?
Besides the fact that about a million and a half people were evacuated from the city before the storm (because of a warning from the Federal government) and Coast Guard and National Guard personnel rescued over 80,000 people in the first few days including 30,000 in the first 24 hours after the storm hit. (In fact, they were in position before the storm had completely cleared.)
The media failed so badly in the information they put out, its no wonder you don’t know any better. You seem to think FEMA was supposed to be there pulling people out of houses.
By the way, Oliver- exactly how many people died as a result of Hurricane Katrina? And how and why did they die? Do you have any idea? In other words, how many people died because of the actions or delayed action of FEMA? Any idea? And how could FEMA have prevented those deaths?
I am truly looking for an answer from you.
Yes, FEMA arrived right on time and in position, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. The government was on time in its response, all those people both in and outside of New Orleans, they were just tricked by lights and mirrors.
I really don’t know how you guys go to bed at night telling yourselves these fairy tales. Something like 1,300 died in New Orleans because of the storm. Surely a lot of those people would have died no matter what, but many of them died because the Federal Govt was not in place and not responsive in an appropriate fashion or speed. The problem is the people in charge of the current government believe the purpose of government is to drown it in a bathtub. The thing is most Americans don’t believe that, and think that while we don’t think the government should be wasteful it should also not have its head up its rear when a major hurricane is hitting a major American city.
But the worst is when conservatives like yourself like to pretend away these things because they’re a little too real a glimpse at true conservatism.
FEMA’s job is to help rebuild.
New Orleans is still not rebuilt.
That’s a simple fact.
Not to mention the FACT that the Bush administration gutted the Army Corps of Engineers budget to upgrade the levees that failed.
“And this bullshit that the federal government reacted slow? What a crock!”
So, which is it? Are you stupid, or do you just have a very short memory?
So many misconceptions. I’m sure I’m just wasting typestrokes, but for the record:
but many of them died because the Federal Govt was not in place
How many died because of the Federal Govt. versues how many died because of state & local “efforts”? Let’s not forget that Blanco specifically forbade the Red Cross from entering the city and in her first press conference, actually empathized with the looters! Meanwhile, Nagin waited until 18 hours before landfall (on a Sunday morning, no less) before ordering evacuation. I guess it was because the city of New Orleans didn’t have any vehicles they could have used to transport evacuees.
FEMA’s job is to help rebuild. New Orleans is still not rebuilt.
Neither is Homestead, FL. Andrew was how long ago?
the FACT that the Bush administration gutted the Army Corps of Engineers budget
FALSE.
That said, I agree that MSNBC must have a really crappy rolodex if the best they can do is Mike Brown.
I’m sure I’m just wasting typestrokes, but for the record:
No, you’re right. You are.
I guess it was because the city of New Orleans didn’t have any vehicles they could have used to transport evacuees.
They had vehicles. They had no one to drive them and no where to go.
After the Tsunami hit in the Pacific, US aid arrived on the scene the next day. Federal aid didn’t show up in New Orleans until Friday, 5 days after the storm. Sure the Coast Guard rescued people, and that’s great, but then they dropped ‘em on a highway overpass and left them there for 4 days. In New Orleans, in August.
They had no one to drive them and no where to go.
The School year had started 2 weeks earlier. The bus drivers were in town.
but then they dropped ‘em on a highway overpass and left them there for 4 days.
Wrong again. They brought them to Baton Rouge.
Nice try, though.
Oliver, I will make it simple:
You’re an idiot on this issue. You really are.
First of all, let’s look at the facts:
1. FEMA is not a first responder. They never have been. It is not the responsibility of the federal government to have hoards of supplies, people and other things just waiting around every time a hurricane gets close to the coastline. However, that being the case and FEMA knowing a 2 days beforehand what was going to happen did have medical teams, rescue squads and other helpers on the outer areas of the city prepared to help.
2. The first line of defense lies with the state and localities when it comes to hurricanes. Living in Florida, we don’t wait around for a hurricane to hit before doing anything. Preparations are made days in advance, not 24 hours before landfall. It was up to the state of Louisiana and the City of New Orleans to prepare and get the word out for citizens to prepare and they didn’t yet you conveniently ignore that information. In fact, I’ll keep going back to the fact that the most criticism you directed at Blanco and Nagin was that they “weren’t perfect.” That’s really freaking lame.
3. The damage and amount of water surrounding the city made it extremely difficult for trucks and supplies to get into the city in the days following the hurricane. In addition state homeland security officials, acting on orders from the Governors office, wouldn’t allow many agencies to get in and help.
Was the federal response all puppy dogs and ice cream? No. It was clear that communication lines broke down between state and federal agencies which caused more problems than necessary. The feds relied too much on early reports that New Orleans had not suffered extensive damage from the hurricane itself (which it hadn’t. The real problem was the storm surge and resulting flooding).
But you’ve been pimping this “New Orleans drowned and it was Bush’s fault” nonsense far too long and it’s a total crock of big steaming horseshit.
Anybody can go here and read a timeline (all linked and sourced) of the events in question.
Farris, fuck that picture of those stupid buses. It’s a nice picture but to anyone who actually wanted to sit down and think about it, at all, ever, (ie no-one on your side of the debate), it proves nothing.
August put it better than I could:
And that’s overlooking the fact that those buses - which, by the way, could have fitted, maybe, 12,000 people, which isn’t that many out of everyone in New Orleans - weren’t going to load themselves, drive themselves, figure out where the Hell to even go in the first place by themselves, and personally find people who even wanted to take the evacuees by themselves. “The School year had started 2 weeks earlier. The bus drivers were in town.” What kind of bullshit is that? I can just imagine you, typing that with your back straight and your nose tilted downward so you can literally look down it as you post. “The bus drivers were in town” is not a practical solution, it’s not a practical anything. It’s just a cynical snark designed to make you feel superior.
So please. Take that photograph, with the fantastic deus ex machina that could only exist in the movies or your head, screw it up tight, and ram it into your sphincter. It’s bollocks. It always has been bollocks, it always will be bollocks. It’s a powerful image, but to turn it into a condemnation of Nagin/defense of Bush, you have to actually forgo reality and practicality in favour of blind idol worship. Again.
Jay, re: no. 2, perhaps the reason we “completely ignore that information” is that you just made it up. The people of NOLA were prepared, as prepared as they could be considering the budget cuts the - oops - federal Government made to their levee repairs. It was on the Daily Show, for christ’s sake: “they weren’t predicting the breach of the levees so much as resigned to it.”
If you have to blatantly lie to make your point it’s not a point worth making. Pointing at the Democrat and going “he should have done it” isn’t good enough either. That goes for everyone who thinks it’s worth their time to pretend that the federal government responded to Katrina in a timely, efficent, and at all useful fashion. And remember, if this had happened, Governmental fuckups and all, under Clinton we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
Nimrod, you’re name is perfect for you. If you’re going to call people liars, you should be better prepared and not rely on comedy shows to prove your point.
One of the first myths that surfaced in the wake of Katrina was the famous, “Bush de-funded the levees!” Nothing could be further from the truth. Levee funding had been diverted by local officials (largely Democrats) for years in the New Orleans area. Projects like ‘The Big Dig’ in Boston were worthy of more money in the Clinton era than New Orleans ($15 billion)
Funding for the Army Corps projects under Bush was higher than Bill Clinton and Louisiana’s funding was higher than that of any other state. So this notion that the levees weren’t strong enough to withstand the hurricane came about as a result of the Bush administration cutting funds is total hogwash.
You want to be stooge and get your information from Colbert and Jon Stewart? Be my guest. But the real facts are out there for anybody to find.
You mean like here?
——
Learn to read.
“It was on the Daily Show, for christ’s sake”
See the last bit there? The “for Christ’s sake”? This doesn’t exhort the show as the greatest information source on Earth. Oh no. It actually expresses incredulity at the fact that you’re denying something that even made the fake news.
And yes, I am going to call people liars, when they lie to my face in order to defend other, greater liars for no reason whatsoever except basic party loyalty.
I see: so visual proof of a way out of New Orleans pre-storm proves nothing, but the Bush Guitar picture proves everything. Sorry, does not compute.
Yeah, the busses needed somewhere to go. Yeah, the drivers needed to stay behind. Yeah, they needed a plan to load people up. And that’s Bush’s fault … how?!? That was NAGIN’S responsibility, and he didn’t do any of it!!!
You’re telling me the President should usurp the authority of a minority, Democratic mayor and lead an armed innsurection in the middle of a crisis?!? No sooner than you could say Separation of Powers, you’d have have Democrats shouting for Impeachment, and rightfully so.
And just in case noone reads what Nimrod elipsis-ized:
And gee, maybe Bush had a good reason to toe the line on levee spending:
Since your first line there shows that you still insist on being ridiculously obtuse to the point of basic stupidity and ignorance in your refusal to address any points anyone has raised that could ever be the slightest bit damaging to your precious party line, I’m not even going to do you the service of reading the rest. Go play in traffic, Farris.
Shorter Nimrod: I don’t have a leg to stand on, so I’ll just insult you.
I have legs to stand on. You’re just so clearly acting like a complete and utter prick, and are so clearly determined to stay that way on this issue, that you don’t deserve anything BUT insults (which, by the way, was not the sum total of my previous post). Your complete inability to even acknowledge what other people have written bears this out. Therefore, get bent.
Because this issue hits pretty close to home for me, so I actually pay attention to the whole story instead of gleaning everything I know off of someone else’s filtered list of headlines and soundbites. And being afraid to “damage the party line”? Please: if that was the case, why did I go out of my way to rip Mr. Brown?
Meanwhile, I’ve addressed all of your points (save the one about Comedy Central) and you’ve come back with … personal insults. Which is your right, I suppose. It only makes your unpersuasive argument even less so. C’est la vie.
Like I said, that first line above proves that you’re not really interested in anything I have to say, so why should I read further? Eat a screwdriver.
And yes, I am going to call people liars, when they lie to my face in order to defend other, greater liars for no reason whatsoever except basic party loyalty.
The only problem was, is that it wasn’t a lie and you should learn to do some basic research as I pointed out instead of having your head up the ass of the writers at Comedy Central and believing myths about phantom budget cuts that prevented the Army Corps from building up those levees to hold back big bad Katrina.
And Duros, you need to post more of that article. For years and years, the New Orleans area has been a hotbed of corruption and almost outright thievery. There are loads of sources that show how much money was diverted away from levee projects and instead used for development projects and other nonsense.
The accusation that the levees broke because Bush cut funding for the projects is a BIG FAT LIE.
Shorter Jay: IS TOO INFINITY
Typical non-response from Ringo. Caught with his pants down, he resorts to pettiness.
Since that’s precisely what you did, I find that very interesting.
Really? You said:
Jay, re: no. 2, perhaps the reason we “completely ignore that information” is that you just made it up. The people of NOLA were prepared, as prepared as they could be considering the budget cuts the - oops - federal Government made to their levee repairs. It was on the Daily Show, for christ’s sake: “they weren’t predicting the breach of the levees so much as resigned to it.”
So, first you call me a liar but your ‘proof’ that I am lying is a myth. A falsehood. Untrue. A myth that was repeated on fake news shows like ‘The Daily Show.’
There were no government cuts in levee building, and further evidence shows that for over a decade, money for levee projects were being used for other purposes.
In addition, the residents nor the officials of NOLA (and the state) were not prepared as the timeline I linked to clearly shows.
So don’t go blubbering now because your BS got called out.
In a related development, despite sitting on a $2 billion surplus, the Blanco administration refuses to spend a dime on recovery.
Louisiana politicians: gotta love ‘em.
And typical of Blanco (and most Democrats), she says the federal government should pay for entire bill.
What’s the $2 billion surplus for? Probably for more developers and casino owners.
Just because you said something, doesn’t make it true, or untrue as the case may be. It may surprise you, but you’re not God.
Just because you said something, doesn’t make it true
No shit. What I said however, is supported by the facts.
It may surprise you, but you’re not God.
And the facts other people have put up against you don’t exist?
Next time avoid lying.
fix italics.
What facts? A Washington Post article that tells only h
What facts? Point me to some solid verifiable evidence that the levees busted because they weren’t built strong enough because of funds that Bush cut away.
That’s your contention:
The levees broke because the Bush administration cut funding for their construction.
Now, if have something you can point to that backs up that assertion (which somehow gives you license to call me a liar), then do so. Otherwise, go have some tea and crumpets and stop wasting my time.
…myths about phantom budget cuts that prevented the Army Corps…
but they aren’t myths and they aren’t “phantom budget cuts. This admin gave the corps of engineers less money than they asked for. Sure, LA politics is corrupt. It wouldn’t be LA if it weren’t. No, that doesn’t excuse the gov or the mayor from culpability. they should have done more at the time. but the Fed gov should not have dropped the ball the way they did. And the only inference that a reasonable person can come up with is that the Fed Gov just wasn’t that concerned.
Just don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.
Eat a screwdriver. I never heard that one before.
“The levees broke because the Bush administration cut funding for their construction.”
No. I pointed out that the Bush administration diverted funds from levee maintainence, among other things, to fund their poxy war, and that certainly didn’t help.Duros then posted supporting testimony, which you’ve barely acknowledged.
Unlike you, we are capable of seeing and saying things as more than just two opposing extremes.
By the way, I don’t go on about hamburgers and pickups and Miller Pilsner, so let’s leave the tea and crumpets Ringo shit out, shall we?
I find this sick guy who is saying the response to katrina was.. I won’t even say it due to his utter lack of humanity. Say that to all those people.. ALL THoSE PEOPLE!!! Those Beautiful Americans who were failed by this administration and this country and are still being screwed. But yet they have a heart and are riding through this utter devastating situation STILL with their heads up high. Not like you who should have your head chopped oFF1!!! Seriously!!!!