Sin Trek: Left Behind
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If the religious far-right wrote Star Trek, it would probably work out like this. (via)
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I like the Family Guy Rapture joke better. But this one’s still pretty good.
Pretty funny!
Pretty good. But why is VH1 doing this? Are they jumping on the anti – Christian bandwagon with the Comedy Channel?
If I say yes will you shut up about it?
Poor beleaguered Christianity. It survived the Roman Empire but now VH1 and Comedy Central give it fits of agony.
The point is not whether or not Christianity will survive — in fact, an argument could be made for the idea that if they can’t survive these pin pricks, then they shouldn’t survive.
The point is what is the origin of the attacks? What has certain people so obsessed with attacking Christians?
There are theories which come from the Christian side, but I would like to hear what leftist anti – Christians like Nimrod, for example, who doesn’t even want to hear about it, have to say about it.
What is this about?
For somebody who earlier on this board barked about people not having a sense of humor, you certainly missed the obvious satire even when Oliver pointed it out to you.
This is not an anti-Christian sketch. It’s an anti-fundamentalist Christian sketch. It takes jabs at the sort of mentality that says “I know God’s mind better than you, and God says I’m a better person and I will go to heaven and you will not. Neener neener.”
Oh, it’s an anti – fundamentalist Christian sketch!
Well, that is just so much funnier!
That changes everything…
The point is what is the origin of the attacks? What has certain people so obsessed with attacking fundamentalists?
There are theories which come from the fundamentalists’ side, but I would like to hear what leftist anti – fundamentalists like Nimrod, for example, who doesn’t even want to hear about it, have to say about it.
What is this about?
And satirizing someone’s religious beliefs used to be bad manners. It was not the kind of behavior major networks engaged in.
Because I’m sure you were just as outraged by the Danish “Mohammed” cartoons, and not one of the people saying “What the hell is wrong with these Muslims? They’re just cartoons!”
And I’d be perfectly content to leave fundamentalists alone if their beliefs didn’t so often require them to step beyond the bounds of their personal spirituality to tell me how I need to live MY life.
What has certain people so obsessed with attacking fundamentalists?
Well, Mr. Pipeline, perhaps because they are bat-shit crazy.
This whole Rapture thing got me thinking. If Christ returns to earth to call his people home, what makes fundies think that he would choose them? When he was alive there was no Christianity; he was still a Jew and a rabbi. It seems to me that if the rapture was “for reals”, why wouldn’t Christ call up his chosen people, the Jews, whom God has had a pre-existing deal with for 8000 years?
I just happen to think that a whole lot of people are gonna be very disappointed.
SpiderJ and Duros: I’m just asking a question; not starting a flame war.
I realize that VH1 thinks it’s funny, just like the Danish cartoonist thought it was funny.
Incidentally, one difference between the Islamic fundamentalists and the Christian fundamentalists is that Christian fundamentalists haven’t burned cars and buildings and killed people over this VH1 thing
So, Duros, Mr. “I’m an American and I believe in freedom of religion”, when the practitioners of a religion seem “bat – shit crazy” to you, you can lampoon them?
That’s you reason?
So far, we have two reasons: A Danish cartoons drew funny cartoons about Mohammed, and fundamentalists are bat shit crazy.
OK. I’m satisfied.
As long as it’s reasonable.
Yes, yes, I know that the Muslim fundies are crazier than the Christian fundies, for the most part. I don’t give either group a free pass based on levels of violence, so it’s a moot point.
You give respect to get it. If fundamentalists don’t want to be lampooned with relatively benign sketches like this one, it would be nice if they didn’t look down upon the non-religious as inferior beings in need of conversion.
Any group of people – left or right, religions or non-religious, that walks around and tells everyone that they have the answers, no really WE HAVE THE ANSWERS AND DON’T QUESTION US is going to come in for some well deserved lampooning. It’s no secret conspiracy by VH-1 and Comedy Central, but rather rule #1 of comedy.
“I’m just asking a question; not starting a flame war.”
No, you are wollowing in your pathetic persucution complex.
“So, Duros, Mr. “I’m an American and I believe in freedom of religion”, when the practitioners of a religion seem “bat – shit crazy” to you, you can lampoon them?”
YES! Of course you can lampoon religions, the bat-shit crazy one and the moderates. To think otherwise would make you part of the bat-shit crazies.
You don’t get a pass for being nuts just cause you call your dellusion a religion.
And I’d be perfectly content to leave fundamentalists alone if their beliefs didn’t so often require them to step beyond the bounds of their personal spirituality to tell me how I need to live MY life.
I think you’ve just described every environmentalist.
Cute. You do see the difference, right? Between somebody telling me how to behave so I can be let into their unproven, unseen mystical paradise after I die, versus people who would rather we take care of the only home we have right now?
Well, the enviros are saying that if you don’t do as we say (instead of doing what they do), you’re going to murder everyone on the planet in 5 years based upon unseen, mystical forecasts. (The same ones that said we’d have a record-breaking number of hurricanes in 2006).
And it is something of an article of faith that a planet which recovered from multiple asteroid hits, ice ages, and great thaws can’t survive. Or that a species that has seen exponential scientific breaktroughs over the last 100 years can’t figure out a way to solve this “problem”.
But to each his own. That’s what faith is all about…
Frank, do you even know what “fundamentalist” means in this context? It’s basically a synonym for “extremist”. Extremists practically set themselves up for mockery by being extremists.
Is it unfair to lampoon Scientology? Or Transcendentalism? Or even Mormons?
Depends on how seriously they take themselves I guess. You can’t go around saying that you’re waiting for our alien overlords to return from the 16th dimension and not expect a little ridicule.
“Is it unfair to lampoon Scientology? Or Transcendentalism? Or even Mormons?
Depends on how seriously they take themselves I guess.”
I disagree. It doesn’t matter how seriously they take themselves, it only matters what they believe. If it is stupid, you can call them stupid. This is true of religions, politics, sports, movies, etc.
Mocking people is an important part of the Marketplace of Ideas. If an idea can’t handle mocking then it isn’t worth holding.
“Well, the enviros are saying that if you don’t do as we say (instead of doing what they do), you’re going to murder everyone on the planet in 5 years based upon unseen, mystical forecasts.”
On the one hand, we have 25% of the American population that said Jesus will return by the end of 2007.
On the other hand, we have an overwhelming number of scientists who predict that within the next 50 years the global environment will change in such a way that it will negatively impact the standard of living for humans across the globe.
Guess which one will come true.
“(The same ones that said we’d have a record-breaking number of hurricanes in 2006).
You realize that 2006 broke many record worldwide. Just because the United States wasn’t hit by a record number of Hurricanes for one year doesn’t mean GLOBAL Warming isn’t real.
If an idea can’t handle mocking then it isn’t worth holding.
Mark this date. Probably the first time you and Frank agree on something.
If an idea can’t handle mocking then it isn’t worth holding.
Who said that?
Seriously, no one “deserves” to be mocked. If anyone deserves to be mocked, then everyone deserves to be mocked.
I repeat: Mocking other people’s religions used to be considered bad manners. While there is the occasional irreverent look at various religions (Woody Allen and Mel Brooks have done plenty; “The Frisco Kid” comes to mind), Christianity, and fundamentalist Christianity have taken quite a beating.
I am not asking whether or not they should. I am well aware of your unanimity of feeling in that area. I am asking you why you think it is happening?
Don’t you see yourselves as bigots? Do you at least see why someone else would see you as a bigot?
Do you understand the arrogance required to say that a religion practiced by billions, that has its origins 2000 years ago has to earn your respect?
Mockery is by no means “an important part of the Marketplace of Ideas”, anymore than are slander and libel. It exists and it is permissible, but it doesn’t answer the question “Why?”
Mocking other people’s religions used to be considered bad manners.
Not on the planet earth. Crack open a history book sometime. Religion of all sorts has been up for ridicule since the dawn of time.
“Seriously, no one “deserves” to be mocked. If anyone deserves to be mocked, then everyone deserves to be mocked.”
I agree. Everyone deserves to be mocked for something.
“I repeat: Mocking other people’s religions used to be considered bad manners.”
Thank god that changed. Perhaps more and more people will realize living a live based on reason and not superstition is a good thing.
“I am asking you why you think it is happening?”
Have you read the bible? It’s full of stupid things. This is why people who follow it are mocked.
“Don’t you see yourselves as bigots? ”
No. Bigots don’t like others who are different from them. We don’t like people who are wrong.
Take these three conversations:
#1
Person A: 2+2=5
Person B: No it doesn’t, you moron, it equal 4.
Person A: Bigot! How dare you mock me?
#2
Person A: The Earth is only 6000 years old.
Person B: No it isn’t, you moron. All evidence suggests it is 4.5 billion years old.
Person A: Bigot! How dare you mock me?
#3
Person A: I think green is the best colour.
Person B: No it isn’t, you moron. Red is better.
Person A: Bigot! How dare you mock me?
In the first two Person B isn’t calling Person A a moron because he believes something different. He is calling him a moron because of the substance of those differences.
On the other hand, in number 3, person B is clearly being a douche.
On a side note, even though #1 and #2 are nearly identical, some think that because a person is basing their erroneous beliefs in religion, no one should be able to tell them they are wrong.
“Do you understand the arrogance required to say that a religion practiced by billions, that has its origins 2000 years ago has to earn your respect?”
Just cause it’s popular doesn’t mean it’s right.
Just cause it’s old doesn’t mean it’s right.
People who think it does deserve to be mocked.
“Mockery is by no means ‘an important part of the Marketplace of Ideas’, anymore than are slander and libel.”
Please tell me I don’t have to explain the difference between making fun of someone and lying about them.
“It exists and it is permissible, but it doesn’t answer the question ‘Why?’”
Cause sometimes the court jester is the only one who is allowed to speak the truth.
Also:
Do you understand the arrogance required to say that a religion practiced by billions, that has its origins 2000 years ago has to earn your respect?
Do you tell your conservative friends the same thing about Islam? Because the road goes in several directions.
There is no point in this discussion until Frank learns the difference between regular Christianity and Fundamentalist Left-Behinder Arsehole Pat Robertson Christianity, which is what’s being mocked here.
Oliver: Perhaps religion has been subject to ridicule (and I am really sick of you telling me to “crack open a history book”. You’re a writer! Think of a new line) in the past, but it was never good manners, it was never institutionalized, nor was it a part of the societal fabric — except in one instance, which Godwin’s Law forbids me to mention.
I don’t know any people who are disrespectful of Islam. They point out its inconsistencies and contradictions, and most importantly, they can explain it with more than, “We can if we want to!”, or “They deserve it!”.
Cause sometimes the court jester is the only one who is allowed to speak the truth.
Telling the truth is one thing; making fun of the King would have cost the Jester his head, too.
Not always. Depended on the King. A lot of them expected the Jester to make fun of him, as long as he didn’t go too far.
“They daren’t leap into the sea like our brave French soldiers”
I use the same line Frank because you keep making the same silly historic misstatements. This is basic history 101, stuff most of us who went to public school learned early on.
Conservatives regularly conflate all of Islam with terrorism and cast stones in glass houses by pretending as if Christianity or Judaism don’t also have piles of contradictions.
The idea of poking fun at people, especially the majority with so much power as Christianity is in America, is as old as time.
as long as he didn’t go too far
Thank you. Say goodnight, Gracie
Goodnight, Gracie
Me: “Cause sometimes the court jester is the only one who is allowed to speak the truth.”
The Evil Opposite of Me, The Anti-Me: “Telling the truth is one thing; making fun of the King would have cost the Jester his head, too.”
Making fun of the King was expected. You make jokes at the expense of the powerful, not of the weak. (This confusion is why most conservative attempts at humor fail.)
Also, I would like to point out you completely ignored the rest of my post. Why is that?
The point is not whether or not Christianity will survive — in fact, an argument could be made for the idea that if they can’t survive these pin pricks, then they shouldn’t survive.
The point is what is the origin of the attacks? What has certain people so obsessed with attacking Christians?
There are theories which come from the Christian side, but I would like to hear what leftist anti – Christians like Nimrod, for example, who doesn’t even want to hear about it, have to say about it.
What is this about?
Bullshit like this.
And satirizing someone’s religious beliefs used to be bad manners. It was not the kind of behavior major networks engaged in.
This coming from someone who called my religion a joke…yeah…
Do you understand the arrogance required to say that a religion practiced by billions, that has its origins 2000 years ago has to earn your respect?
Let me play devil’s advocate here and play by your rules. Let’s give Christianity the respect you think it deserves. Oh wait, The voice is dominated by people like James Dobson and Pat Robertson, which would make any sensible person lose respect for it. It’s not a matter of “earnign” respect, it’s about “losing” it.
Riddle me this, Batman. Why should I respect extremist Christianity when they don’t respect me. What makes me so goddamned inferior?
Zython: You make it so easy. I said your so – called religion was based on a game. How many people “practice” it? What are its rites and rituals? What is its approach to morality and spirituality?
As to whether they should “respect” you, you can rest assured that number one, they believe in “hate the sin, love the sinner”. You hate the religion.
Number two, you would be treated with courtesy and respect by any “born again” Christian you met.
Finally, do you think there are only two influential voices among fundamentalist Christians?
I said your so – called religion was based on a game
What is it with you and confusing anime and “games”?
What is its approach to morality and spirituality?
The story is thus: We Haruhiists believe that Suzumiya Haruhi is God. She is omnipotent, but not omniscient. She is not even aware of her abilities. We believe it is our duty to make this world interesting, or else Haruhi will get bored, and inadvertantly destoy the world and recreate a new one better suited for her. It’s already happend 4 years ago. Haruhiists also regularly search for aliens, time travelers, and espers, as this is what Haruhi also seeks.
How many people “practice” it?
I fail to see how that’s relevent. Ridiculing a faith for its number of followers or its orgins just makes you an elitest.
You hate the religion.
No, I just hate the assholes that tell non-christians that they’re going to burn in hell and tell gay people that their way of life is wrong.
As to whether they should “respect” you, you can rest assured that number one, they believe in “hate the sin, love the sinner”
And I’m sure that the people who commit the sin of existing feel just peachy keen about that.
Number two, you would be treated with courtesy and respect by any “born again” Christian you met.
I don’t consider being told that I’m going to burn in hell for not believing in Christ to be “courtasy and respect” but I guess we’re just different like that.
Finally, do you think there are only two influential voices among fundamentalist Christians?
Excuse me, I should’ve added “and the like”.
Zombie Falwell.
Bless him, he still can’t discern Christianity in general from extremist Christianity specifically.
I said your so – called religion was based on a game
Sorry, it’s based on a cartoon.
We believe it is our duty to make this world interesting… It’s (the destruction of the world) already happened 4 years ago.
That is neither morality nor spirituality. I guess the destruction of the world took place at night. I must have been a sleep and missed it.
It was all recreated just as it was by morning?
How many people “practice” it?
Ridiculing a faith for its number of followers … just makes you an elitist.
When did I ridicule your religion?
The rest is nonsense. You’re just saying what you said over again. It wasn’t true then. It isn’t true now.
Lemme ask you this, Frank. Do you think, or have you ever thought, Don Rickles is funny?
an argument could be made for the idea that if they can’t survive these pin pricks, then they shouldn’t survive.
If an idea can’t handle mocking then it isn’t worth holding.
Are not these two statements in agreement?
If you are happy to have channels preaching belief structures and attempting to lure in potential followers then I can’t see what the big deal about having the tables turned.. First justify to yourself why it is wrong, then take a good hard look at yourself..
Look, Duros, the point here is that no one wants to admit that the real reason for this is ideological.
William F. Buckley, Jr. wrote years ago (long before there was a Christian Coalition) that anti – Catholicism on the left is like the anti – semitism of the Right.
The right long ago severed their ties with anti – semitism, but the Left?
Well, I’ve been listening to phony justifications for it for 2 days.
Well, tell the voices in your head to shut up then.
“William F. Buckley, Jr. wrote years ago (long before there was a Christian Coalition) that anti – Catholicism on the left is like the anti – semitism of the Right.
The right long ago severed their ties with anti – semitism, but the Left?”
Two points:
1.) The right is no longer anti-Semitic? Really? So a prominent member of the Christian right didn’t say all Jews were going to burn in hell? My memory must be fading.
2.) There’s no evidence that the left is anti-Catholic. In fact, JFK was Catholic and is still looked upon today as one of the best presidents ever. (Getting shot will do that to your legacy.)
The left may seem anti-Catholic to people with delusions of persecution. But there’s a huge difference between bigotry and telling someone to shut the fuck up when they say Tinky Winky and SpongeBob SquarePants are gay and are trying to indoctrinate your children.
CSS: How could it possibly take you so long to come up with such inconsequential bullshit?
Well that certainly told him.
That he’s got you beaten.
Wow that was a random video…I liked it personally…why is everyone going all wierd about this? Its a video people! They aren’t trying to force anything on you…ya’ll I’m a Christian, but I’m not being strange about this video…its a funny video….period!
Hey, Mr.ChickenShit, Pipeline: Shut The Fuck Up!
Well you se, Lizz, It started here:
Pretty good. But why is VH1 doing this? Are they jumping on the anti – Christian bandwagon with the Comedy Channel?
Then everyone went batshit.
So a prominent member of the Christian right didn’t say all Jews were going to burn in hell?
A person made a theological statement that Jews could not be saved, and this is your evidence that Republicans are anti – semitic?
Then what do you call a Democratic / liberal blog filled with thread after thread that contains anti – Christian comments? Is that evidence of the liberals’ anti – Christianity?
I say it is.
JFK was Catholic and is still looked upon today as one of the best presidents ever.
JFK is looked upon as one of the most beloved Presidents ever. While he was President, left wingers suggested that there was a conspiracy between Cardinal Spellman, John Kennedy and the Catholic wife of Vietnamese minister Nguyen Van Thieu to get us deeply involved in Vietnam.
Before he was elected, Kennedy was forced to distance himself from his Catholic faith on many an occasion to dispel rumors that he would be taking orders from the Vatican.
Was there something you wanted to add, Mr. ChickenShit PipeLine,?
“CSS: How could it possibly take you so long to come up with such inconsequential bullshit?”
What the fuck are you talking about? My response was 10 minutes after your, and completely destroyed your argument.
“Well you se, Lizz, It started here:
Pretty good. But why is VH1 doing this? Are they jumping on the anti – Christian bandwagon with the Comedy Channel?”
It’s not fucking anti-Christian, which Lizz recognized. You wouldn’t know real persecution if people were rounded up into train cars and taken away to concentration camps.
On the other hand, you and your fellow Christians would be the ones marching the people to their deaths.
Me: “So a prominent member of the Christian right didn’t say all Jews were going to burn in hell?”
You: “A person made a theological statement that Jews could not be saved, and this is your evidence that Republicans are anti – semitic?”
Two points…
1.) Do you agree that Jews are going to hell?
2.) It is when this guy has the ear of the president. When your leadership is anti-Semitic, then the organization can be called anti-Semitic.
“Then what do you call a Democratic / liberal blog filled with thread after thread that contains anti – Christian comments? Is that evidence of the liberals’ anti – Christianity?
I say it is.”
Like I said before, you would know real persecution if it sodomized your mom. Speaking of moms and sodomy… Another prominent Republican said that Hollywood Jews love anal sex and hate mothers.
“Before he was elected, Kennedy was forced to distance himself from his Catholic faith on many an occasion to dispel rumors that he would be taking orders from the Vatican.”
And it was the right-wingers making those claims, not the liberals.
Just like today it is the right-wingers calling Romney Satan and a follower of a cult, not the liberals.
Sodomizing my mom… Good one, Strowbridge!
She’s been dead since 1994, so she’s ready for you. Considering the best sex you’ve had recently is you, your left hand and your right hand, she’ll be a real treat.
I’ll send you MapQuest directions to the cemetery.
Now, stuff like you said usually gets people banned, but don’t worry. You said it about me. Your place is assured.
“Now, stuff like you said usually gets people banned, but don’t worry.”
Two points:
1.) I said it because James Donohue said the same thing about Jews. You know, James Donohue , the right-wing Catholic. I guess when you said the right is no longer anti-Semitic you were ignoring him.
1.b) I also bet you thought it was anti-Christian when the left attacked him for saying these things.
2.) You ignored 90% of my post. I guess that’s your way of admitting you were wrong. Thanks for seeing the right is clearly more bigoted than the left.
Sorry, it’s based on a cartoon.
That’s better.
That is neither morality nor spirituality. I guess the destruction of the world took place at night. I must have been a sleep and missed it.
It was all recreated just as it was by morning?
It’s tough to explain. Let me put it this way: prove to me that your memories from 4 years ago are real. Can’t, can you? It’s sort of a Philip K. Dickian/Bladerunner/Matrix type thing where your memories were artificially crafted. The reason you don’t remember the destruction of the world 4 years ago is that you were (re)created with memories that did not include said destruction.
When did I ridicule your religion?
You’re doing it right now.
Hey, Mr.ChickenShit, Pipeline: Shut The Fuck Up!
See, the reason you’re so angry is that you don’t know the true grace of our Lord, Haruhi. The sooner you accept Haruhi as part of your life, the sooner you will find true happiness. May she forever guide your path.
It wasn’t true then. It isn’t true now.
So, am I free to say that Christianity is not true? Oh wait, then I’d be an “anti-Christian terrorist” or some shit like that. Double standard Frank strikes again.
1.) Do you agree that Jews are going to hell?
Don’t you remember? He believes the Jews (past and present) killed Jesus. Of course he thinks they’re going to hell.
“Then what do you call a Democratic / liberal blog filled with thread after thread that contains anti – Christian comments? Is that evidence of the liberals’ anti – Christianity?
I say it is.”
Once again, you’re confising “anti-Christianity” with “anti-assholes using Christianity as a front”. Of course since you’re one of the latter, I’m not suprised you confused the two.
Secondly, is dominant religion in the world for 1500 years feeling persecuted? Let me get out my tiny violin.
The right long ago severed their ties with anti – semitism, but the Left?
No, you guys just got better at disguising it. (Re: “New York/Hollywood ‘Liberals’” = code word for Jew)
“No, you guys just got better at disguising it. (Re: “New York/Hollywood ‘Liberals’” = code word for Jew)”
Not always. As I pointed out above, James Donohue has come out and attacked Hollywood Jews using that term. He certainly doesn’t hide his anti-semitism and he’s still considered a representative of the right.
He still gets on the TV plenty and he’s never been denounced by a large group of right-wingers.
Well, the enviros are saying that if you don’t do as we say (instead of doing what they do), you’re going to murder everyone on the planet in 5 years based upon unseen, mystical forecasts
Case of fact here: The ‘nutty enviros’ have never predicted that. Climate change may cause localized famines and extensive property damage along the oceanfronts, but not 6 billion deaths.
Sorry, thank you for playing the Batshit Crazy Hyperbole That Undermines Your Argument Game!
He still gets on the TV plenty and he’s never been denounced by a large group of right-wingers.
That is one of my favorite lines from the left. They don’t “denounce” anybody — not Sheehan, not Churchill (Ward, that is), not Farrakhan, not Sharpton, they won’t even denounce Castro or Stalin, for cryin’ out loud!
Me: “He still gets on the TV plenty and he’s never been denounced by a large group of right-wingers.”
The Fucking Moron: “That is one of my favorite lines from the left. They don’t “denounce” anybody — not Sheehan, not Churchill (Ward, that is), not Farrakhan, not Sharpton, they won’t even denounce Castro or Stalin, for cryin’ out loud!”
When was the last time Sheehan, Castro, or Stalin were held up as the standard bearers of the left?
On the other hand, Bill Donohue is the fucking leader of the Catholic League for more than a decade.
I could understand if the left was demanding the right denounce BTK killer cause he was a leading member of the local Republican Party, but that is not the case.
And again, you ignored 90% of my two posts. How this for a deal, reply to it all, or shut the fuck up, you goddamn coward.
I am a Christian. You would probably describe me as a fundamentalist Christian because I believe the Bible is fundamentally true. Just wanted to make a couple of points:
1. I enjoyed the video a lot – we Christians are daft sometimes but if we are secure in what we believe then a little gentle fun poked at us will not be a threat
2. The Bible’s positon is that EVERYBODY (Americans, British, blacks, whites, Jews, Arabs, rich, poor, male, female – anybody human in fact) will be going to hell without Christ. A Christian is just someone who has recognised that and done something about it in their own lives.
3. God is love and has provided the means of escape from hell which is Christ. If you don’t want to jump off the sinking ship onto the lifeboat he won’t force you, but then whose fault will it be if you drown?
Have a nice day. And can we have some more of those great funny videos pleae?
How this for a deal, reply to it all, or shut the fuck up, you goddamn coward.
Touchy, aren’t we?
I’ll reply to as much or as little of your wan posts as I choose — just as you do.
You can pretend you make make the rules for this blog: Ordering me about, using “we” as if you speak for everyone here; that’s just funny.
But what’s annoying is when you think that you can do things your way, and then try to impose different rules on me. I don’t care if you respond to every single word of my comment. Hell, you ignore obvious context.
But don’t tell me I’m going to respond to you letter for letter, while you cherry pick.
Peter: The Bible’s positon is that EVERYBODY … will be going to hell without Christ
I sincerely doubt that you believe that, or that you know of a fundamentalist sect that believes that, or that you can find a reference to that effect.
Assuming that you could,and did, that is even more reason to find the Video unfunny.
I suspect you are misrepresenting yourself as a Fundamentalist Christian.
My apologies in advance, if I am incorrect.
One thing I must apologize for , Peter: I just read a Q & A which suggests that even “good” people must know and accept Christ in order to avoid Hell.
Now, I don’t know how many people believe this, or who they are, but it defies simple justice to punish people for both evil and good intentions; i.e., when people consider doing evil, they have sinned in thought, but when they act in goodness, their intentions don’t count, because they have no knowledge of the existence of Christ.
I was taught that “blaspheming the Holy Spirit” was rejection of the offer of salvation. This is fairly justified. But sentencing people to Heaven, because they don’t read or write, don’t own a television or radio, never lived in a large city, don’t speak the predominant language, or are mentally deficient, is beyond the pale.
I doubt there are many people who believe that, regardless of the denomination to which they claim they belong.
Obviously I meant “sentencing people to Hell”
Thanks for the response fd10801. I know plenty of people who believe that all are lost without Christ, and that is the motivation for mission and evangelism. After all, if you believe you know the only way out of danger, why wouldn’t you warn others? It’s not a case of forcing your beliefs on others, but it’s a genuine love and concern for the danger we believe them to be in, and a desire to get them out. OK, I guess you don’t agree with my beliefs, but if I’m right and you’re wrong, ignoring what I’m saying would be disastrous for you. Instead of listening to the emotional rhetoric that abounds on these blogs (from both sides – sorry for our lot!) you surely owe it to yourself to examine the claims of the Bible on these matters.
Me: “How this for a deal, reply to it all, or shut the fuck up, you goddamn coward.”
You: “Touchy, aren’t we?”
You’re calling me touchy. Wow, that’s a new level of hypocrisy, even for you.
You: “I’ll reply to as much or as little of your wan posts as I choose — just as you do.”
And I’ll call you a fucking asshole whenever you act like one.
And I do respond to nearly everything, when I don’t it is usually because of repetition.
You, on the other hand, make a point and ignore the counter point, only to make the same point sometime in the future and act as if it has never been challenged.
Peter: “The Bible’s positon is that EVERYBODY … will be going to hell without Christ”
The Fucking Asshole: “I sincerely doubt that you believe that, or that you know of a fundamentalist sect that believes that, or that you can find a reference to that effect.”
THIS IS WHAT IS SAYS IN THE FUCKING BIBLE, YOU PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LOSER!
Here, read this:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-only-way.html
There are plenty of bible quotes there to back it up.
Pardon me, just drifting through.
A few points (from a student of religious studies who, as it happens, is also a liberal Christian):
Peter is spot on about the Bible and salvation – where hell gets a mention, the idea is that absolutely anyone will be saved if they accept Christ, and absolutely anyone will not be saved if they don’t. That message is no more anti-Jew than it is anti-anyone else. Jesus was a Jew, Paul, Peter, etc etc. Some Christians are anti-Semitic (if that’s not a contradiction in terms), but that doctrine isn’t.
On the other hand, lots of Christians argue that hell is a late idea, not mentioned in the Old Testament (ie, for Jews, the Hebrew Bible) and that it is immoral to imagine a loving God creating such a place. These Christians typically argue that everyone gets to be with God in Heaven. This isn’t an issue on which there is any one universally-held ‘Christian’ viewpoint.
Plenty of Christians fall back on the question Abraham asks in Genesis – ‘Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?’ – and trust God not to be an asshole.
As for anime-religions: if you take your religion seriously, then I will too. I could mock you for being, like, totally stoopid, but that would just be a lazy way to avoid actually trying to understand you. The same goes for any other religious group – you can’t understand something unless you take it seriously, and mocking what you don’t understand is pretty low. I’ll probably still disagree, but if so I’ll disagree with actual reasons and from a starting point of genuine respect (unlike the rather shit video that started this whole thread).
Apologies for interrupting your catfight – I’ll go back to teaching grannies to suck eggs and let y’all get on with it.
Hi, Like Tim, I’m just passing through. I have only one question for those participating in the ‘catfight’. If your deity of choice read your post here, would they be proud or ashamed of your defense of them.
Thanks for the interesting read.
Tim has made a few good points. However, the very person who mentions hell most often in the Bible is actually Jesus himself – the one who gave his life to save us from it.
I didn’t fully answer fd10801′s point about those who haven’t heard the gospel. Sadly we must accept that they are lost, otherwise Jesus’ command to preach the gospel so people can be saved doesn’t make sense. Despite this, as Tim correctly pointed out, the judge of the earth WILL do right, so if God decides someone deserves to be saved that the church hasn’t reached, he is omnipotent enough to find another way to reach them. Of course, nobody actually DESERVES to be saved, that’s the whole point. We have all inherited Adam and Eve’s original sin, and confirmed it by wanting to run our lives our own way and without God.
I will just finish by pointing out that nobody reading this blog is in the position of not having heard, so what are YOU going to do about it for yourself? Thanks for reading.
hey, I was trying to read through all that to see if this question was asked, but ran out of juice…
What is the deal with “Still Asian and regretting every minute of it.”? I didn’t get that…