One of the more interesting responses to the back and forth on Iraq between Dale Franks and myself has been the notion that it was civilized discourse we should have had before the war. In a comment on his own blog Dean Esmay says “I remember the days of the blogosphere where people like O-dub were people you could have a thoughtful discussion with. That’s all too rare now.”
Pardon me, I have to roll my eyes. We tried to have this conversation before the war. We tried to tell you this was a bad idea for the reasons I listed and more. The response on the right was to call us terrorist appeasers who were on the other side with Saddam Hussein.
When the political blogosphere took off in 2001 after 9/11 (I had been blogging since 2000 before the election), I had a decent yet civil back and forth with conservative bloggers. But as the country marched on to a war that made no sense, they increasingly made the switch to calling us on the left terrorists and terrorist sympathizers. Now, I am not from the old school of liberalism where I try to talk reason and peace when someone like Andrew Sullivan is crapping on me. I’m going to give as good as good as I’m getting, if not better. So please park the concern for civility train in the junkyard because it’s past its prime in spades.
If the Left wants to have a pertinent discussion, then it should be discussing, in detail, with intelligence reports, military and political analysis, and input from the world Muslim community, just exactly what will happen if the US pulls out of Iraq too quickly and leaves an unstable and vulnerable nation behind.
You’d think that with all the blame laid at the President’s feet for not planning a fool-proof contingency for every conceivable outcome in Iraq, that liberals would want to make sure that their plans were flawlessly reasoned and that they were prepared to swiftly and successfully deal with every significantly possible outcome.
Instead, what we usually hear is something like, “we don’t care what happens, it couldn’t possibly be worse than it is now — just get our boys the hell out of Iraq NOW.”
Um Mike, hahahaha.
You’d think that with all the blame laid at the President’s feet for not planning a fool-proof contingency for every conceivable outcome in Iraq
We lay the blame at his feet for not planning for the most likely by far of the conceivable outcomes. Instead Bush only planned for the least likely outcome that had no basis in experience, history or reality. You seem to not understand that everything that has occured in Iraq was forseeable, and according to nearly all experts THE likely outcome. Of course, the situation has been exacerbated and sped along by the legion of policy blunders of Bush and his cronies.
What honorary Bush Cronies like yourself seem to not understand is that invading Iraq has already proven to be a huge blow to the US in our war on terror. And it continues. Iraq is a recruiting ground, a training ground, and a major financer of AL Qaeda. Not to mention a target rich environment.
Name one positive benefit the US has gotten from the invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq.
“So please park the concern for civility train in the junkyard because it’s past its prime in spades.”
Yes, thats you and the left precisely: “My hate is justified!!”
Dugger,
What part of Oliver’s post, did you not get?
We tried to have a rational conversation with you. Instead of a mature response, we got distain, namecalling, and derision.
If anything, this has continued while we have been trying to remind you that this was a bad idea from the get-go. Instead of coming back to the table to lower the rhetoric, we are called “haters” because we continue to remind you just how wrong this plan was from the start.
Four years after the start of this clusterfuck when it really starts to hit the fan, you ask us with desperation, “do you have any better ideas?” When we remind you that we did, but you laughed us down, you comment that we’ve got nothing to add but “hate” for the Administration.
I hate to break the news to you, but the polls are very, very clear. A strong (and growing) majority of this country are starting to turn away from the rhetoric offered by this Administration and its followers. In November, they voted for change. This trend has only continued. Get off the “you’re only haters” and try to contribute something useful to the conversation.
yes, just call us the “70% haters.”
Instead, what we usually hear is something like, “we don’t care what happens, it couldn’t possibly be worse than it is now — just get our boys the hell out of Iraq NOW.”
So you advocate leaving them there in perpetuity, right, Mike? Why do you hate the troops, Mike?
Sorry locus. Didn’t realize you are a certified martyr, now only striking back at Republican hooligans. But then, its Ok for you guys to be haters becasue, as duros says, you are in majority.
By the way, I think your post was disdainful of me (I’m truly hurt) and demand an apology - lest I disdain a progressive in response.
When will it all end? When will it end? Sigh.
Dugger said:
Yes, thats you and the left precisely: “My hate is justified!!”
I say in response:
Well, given that regressives such as yourself have been wrong regarding just about everything, yeah, I’d say it’s pretty justified.