As I’ve noted before, I don’t have a really strong position on immigration reform. As the child of immigrants who came here the legit way, I’m troubled by giving a pass of any sort to people who “cut” in line, but I also know it’s kind of dumb to think we’re going to deport all of those people.
I do think its interesting that so much of the Republican elite really doesn’t care what their grassroots think and instead are more interested in giving big industries the cheap labor they want. It’s another version of their abortion and gay marriage strategies where they talk a good game up until election day then forget it all after that.
But why does the Republican base act with so much revulsion at any sort of immigration deal short of closing America?
a) They don’t like hispanics
b) They don’t like all immigrants
c) They’re afraid increased immigration means more Democratic voters?
I’m honestly asking.
Racism. Terrified of an invasion of Greasy Mescans.
Seriously – you know that’s it because the reaction is so utterly visceral and over the top.
It also makes no sense – there’s no reason to it.
There are three choices:
1) Deport 12 million people. (not possible)
2) Let them all stay illegally. (REAL stupid)
3) Figure out some way that those who are productive and contribute to society can become legal. Which one you gonna take?
Hey – WE ignored the immigration laws for 25 years. Isn’t it a little much to damn THEM for ignoring them when they could see that WE did?
Well, some folks (like Pat Buchanan) would prefer an isolationist strategy – close the borders and don’t let anything in or out…
This bill is being hailed as a bipartisan victory, but I really feel it puts us back at square one.
The bill requires that illegals pay $5000, go back to their country of origin, get in the back of the line for citizenship, and learn english. I don’t anticipate a lot of volunteers willing to pay the 5 grand plus all that other stuff – they’re going to stay in the shadows as they always have…
Another thing – illegal immigration has never been high on my priorities, but I do favor some sort of reform because the illegal immigrants are basically indentured servants and at the mercy of those seeking ill-gotten gain on their backs.
With reform we must be prepared to accept that the cost of everything will go up, from fruits and vegetables to homes. I’m cool w/ that because I’d like the idea of everyone making a decent wage.
Sorry for the stream-of-consciousnous rant – good day for it being Friday -n- all.
Cheers,
Spiff
Two – two! – false choices for the price of one.
For the first, there are other options, such as enforcing the current laws in order to encourage many who are here now to leave voluntarily and also to reduce future flows.
For the second, there are obviously other choices. Here’s one: massive IllegalImmigration is an indicator of massive PoliticalCorruption, and many conservatives, unlike the Dem leadership, realizes just how dangerous that is.
There’s so much illegal immigration because legal immigration is nearly impossible to do in a timely manner. The country needs immigrants to survive and since you can’t control who gets in with illegal immigration, you are screwing yourself over twice.
Why do all Americans act with so much revulsion at any sort of immigration deal short of closing America?
d) Most Americans are less tolerant of immigrants than they pretend to be.
It’s funny that those little authoritarian thugs who followed Bush off a cliff, have their panties in a twist on this issue. Don’t they understand the big money b’hoys rule the party and they demand cheap labor?
Wade into the river, through the rippling shallow water, steal across the thirsty border, bracero
Come bring your hungry bodies to the golden fields of plenty
From a peso to a penny, bracero
Welcome to California
Where the friendly farmer will take care of you
Closing the borders may help, but it doesn’t address the problem of what to do about the 12 million who are here already.
The current laws are part of the problem. They are poorly thought out, and unenforceable. You have people who are here legally, and their wives and kids are illegal. You can’t do that and expect it to be enforced. You have people who have been here since they were toddlers, and have never known any other country, and they are illegal.
A law which is unenforced is unenforceable. You can’t ignore your own laws for 25 years, while people come here, get jobs, raise families, buy property with no problem, and then suddenly turn around and put the hammer on them as though they were horrible criminals. They aren’t. Most of them are just trying to get a better life for themselves.
Or could it be that the people who have come here illegaly have broken the law and conservatives just want the law enforced. I would have no problem kicking every illegal irishman in Yonkers out of the country either.
Why don’t you have the courage to say you want an open border. Instead you tag anyone who wants enforcement, something every nation is allowed to do, as racist.
Go check out Mexicos border with Central America. They have sealed harder than crazy glue on someones ass.
Clearly this country needs an influx of labor. These people who are here will have to be assimilated, but why do you belittle people who want the border shut as of now?
It’s racism, Oliver.
Vic is correct.
It is not racism to want people who don’t fit the “American” mold – as real or as unreal as that mold may be — to go home and come back legally.
Or could it be that the people who have come here illegaly have broken the law and conservatives just want the law enforced. I would have no problem kicking every illegal irishman in Yonkers out of the country either.]]
Who would work in all those places on McLean Ave.?
If WE ignore the laws, it is unreasonable to expect THEM to hold them sacrosanct.
When I was in Jamaica, we were told “ONLY Jamaican currency is legal in Jamaica.” As soon as I got off the plane, though, it was IMMEDIATELY obvious that EVERYBODY accepted American money, and, in fact, preferred it. Including lawbreakers like MacDonald’s. So, of COURSE I ignored the written law. It was de facto legal, and that was obvious.
That’s what we’ve had for 25 years. You’re getting mad at the wrong people. These folks are being hired, not just privately as nannies, but by our most respected and utterly American corporations. Why the hell wouldn’t they think it was tacitly okay? Our finest citizens treat it like it’s okay.
I’m willing to uproot a few white people if we can get rid of all those dirty Mexicans.
Obviously, the most directly affected are the most angry. I live nowhere our border with Mexico, so I don’t see them “run by my window” (literally or figuratively).
But is the issue, “What are we to do about illegal immigration?”, or is it, “Are the Republicans on the ‘tough side’ of the immigration issue because they are a) Anti – hispanic (absurd) or b) Jingoistic (maybe) or c) Afraid that the benefit accrues to the Democrats (possible)?
Consider the mirror of the question, from the Democrats’ perspective: a) is absurd; b) if the Republicans are jingoistic, does that mean the Democrats are “un-American”, or c) Are the Democrats cynically political, who actually care nothing about Mexican immigrants?
高血脂 冠心病 心律失常 心肌病 中风
I think the answer to Oliver’s question is “C”. But this statement makes no sense: “I do think its interesting that so much of the Republican elite really doesn’t care what their grassroots think and instead are more interested in giving big industries the cheap labor they want.” If Republicans were just interested in cheap labor, then why would they want to stop illegal immigrants from coming here?
I think Iggy nailed the heart of the problem:
Sure it’s amnesty. Sure no one will really be deported. This bill will fail to stop illegal immigration just like the bills in 1986 and 1965 failed to stop it. (By the way, that makes Ted Kennedy a 3 time loser on immigration reform.) But the last time we literally sent the National Guard down to guard the border and haul illegal immigrants back to Mexico was fifty years ago. These people are now a part of America. Some have been here for decades.
But I think this brings up an interesting question — should we have a different standard for those from Mexico who simply walk across the border than we do with those from, say, Yemen or Nigeria or Iran who entered our country on visas but now have expired visas or are otherwise here illegally?
I’m not a Republican but to most Republicans I speak to it’s about securing the borders.
to most Republicans I speak to it’s about securing the borders.
Because terrorists would never dream of coming to the US through Canada. Being unwhite and all, they would naturally come through a country of unwhites.
It ain’t just one thing. It’s a combo-plate.
At its core, I think it’s “Q: Look, shiny!” American workers know they’re getting screwed and their income relative to the past and to their bosses is stagnant at best. The guys who represent their bosses pick a scapegoat, Mexican workers. Their bosses’ representatives — the Bush Administration corporatists — also gain support from complete xenophobes, so this shores up support from them.
The Bush Administration and the bosses, however, have a problem: they want a large pool of unorganized workers so they can drive down wages and benefits. Thus, they need to speak out of both sides of their mouths, and pass legislation that is basically feel-good nonsense (and, knowing the Bush Administration, includes a few kickbacks for their buddies thrown in good measure).
Meanwhile, the exploitation of American workers and immigrant workers continues, and the guys who are offering solutions are the guys who are causing the problem. A real solution, whatever it is, would start by punishing the guys who are profiting from this crass screwing of the general populaces of America and Mexico, but since they’re running the show and basically own both parties, that not only ain’t gonna happen, you can’t discuss it.
I think it’s just another fake wedge issue.
In Florida, the Hispanics come in two varities: Puerto Ricans and Cubans. The Puerto Ricans are citizens. The Cubans are legal if they’re have “dry feet”.
Most of the outcry seems to be directed at Mexicans. (Ironically the complaints are loudest in those states that used to be Mexican territory.)
I don’t think either party is really interested in enforcement. The Dems don’t want to upset minorities, the Reps like the cheap labor.
What I don’t get is the republicans trying to paint it as a Democratic problem. From 9/12/01 to 2006 GWB had a blank check and a rubber stamp congress. If there was ever a time to secure the borders, that was it. That nothing was done is just another opportunity squandered.
That nothing was done is just another opportunity squandered.
You could say that about March 1933 – May 2007
To the extent that the Freepers represent the Republican Base, it’s definitely anti-Latino bigotry.
This issue, as it is currently framed, has nothing to do with borders or enforcing immigration laws or protecting U.S. jobs. It’s simply politically expedient to use xenophobia to distort and inflame the populace, much as terrorism has been reduced to “Muslims” that “hate our freedoms.”
Take a moment and consider why anyone would want to immigrate to the U.S. from Mexico. Is it because life is so good here or so bad there or a mix of both? Is some half-assed effort to close the border going to improve conditions in Mexico? Is it even going to be possible to do such a thing while maintaining commercial access? What about NAFTA and the effect of massive agricultural subsidies on Mexican farmers? Illegal immigrants can hardly be said to be having a major impact on the majority of U.S. jobs. What about corporate outsourcing, with many companies not merely seeking cheap foreign labor, but lax foreign oversight as well, with many moving their company wholesale overseas to avoid U.S. taxes and laws? War profiteer Halliburton, anyone?
U.S. wages stagnant or losing ground to inflation? Blame the immigrants. Crime on the rise after years of decline? Blame the immigrants. Education and health care problems? Blame the immigrants.
See, it’s easy.
Of course, the ultimate irony comes from the pages of history. California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, and Texas were all Mexican territory once. Anyone remember just exactly how they came to be part of the U.S.?
It is not racism to want people who don’t fit the “American” mold - as real or as unreal as that mold may be — to go home and come back legally.
Haw! Translation anyone?
Oliver, see what you think about what I put on my blog…
Quakerin a basement: You could have looked it up: Americanism Education League.
If you don’t know what it is, that’s not funny.
I started to answer, but then got too long-winded and realized I didn’t want to waste all that verbiage over here, so I got a full posting out of it over at Wizbang:
http://wizbangblog.com/2007/05/19/if-the-law-is-a-ass-then-kiss-my-laws.php
J.
Yeah, I know I’m going out on a limb built of presumptions here – but: The irony of the photo used to illustrate the story is amazing… presumably we have a women with her mixed race child. Go back about 30 years, and it would’ve been people who look just like her – heck, perhaps relatives, bemoaning race mixing and civil rights for “coloreds”.
What’s even worse is how the child of color is being used to promote this clearly bigoted stance…
Don’t get me wrong – I believe in legal immigration – but you can discuss, debate and protest without resorting to base delineations of nationality and by implication race.
To much of the disucussion in this nation is stunted/prevented/polluted by purely racist arguments and bias.
1. enforce existing laws by cracking down hard and broadly on employers.
2. streamline the immigration process–15 years’ wait just to get in? AYFKM?
3. Find other ways to stimulate the economy of Mexico and “encourage” the leadership/wealthy of that country to do something to alleviate the plight of their poor and jobless.
4. Since we can’t deport 12 million people, we pass a semi-amnesty, giving folks a chance at citizenship–but make it effective 3-5 years from now, after we’ve had 3-5 years to crack down on employers.
5. We need more African immigrants–they’re the best educated, most economically successful of recent immigrant groups.
6. Stop the English-only crapola. Not necessary, and way too divisive.
PS: I’m a progressive, not a conservative.
I real question for African Americans in this debate is:
How will this immigration policy affect our quality of life?
The current meme/lie being passed around for all to take a puff is the argument that these illegal aliens do the jobs that other Americans won’t do. That corporate America is afraid that it won’t have enough workers to do these jobs. With unemployment in the African American community at more than 12 percent, and many of these jobs are not even offered to African Americans because they are not bilingual, the question begs, how is this immigration going to impact upon the already outrageous employment levels in the African American community.
We have not heard a whimper from the Congressional Black Caucus as a group on how these will impact the constitutents they say they represent. when an illegal alien is given a job over an African American even if that is the so-calleed low-paying job that in many academics and politicians is only a drop in the bucket, it has a chilling effect upon that African-American and his/her family and they pursuit of the American Dream, that these illegals are also trying to enjoy.
Being selfish you would ask yourself, how can you take care of somebody else, when you haven’t taken care of family first.
All this talk of caring, compassion and reunification of families should be looked at inwardly toward American citizens who have yet to be included in this dream of opportunity for all, the land of the free and the home of the brave.
Get real and tell the God’s honest truth!
Would Mexico accept African Americans, listen to their demands that their “rights” be honored, and allow them to emigrant if the roles were reversed? We know the answer to that.
Only when we sincerely confront the racism that is so systemic in corporate America will things change. This is being set up as an “us against them” with the bottom line being the almighty dollar for the few “winners.”
When will we learn?
Stop supporting an issue where we will not be the winners.
Notwithit: You’re getting a taste of what it felt like for the Italians and the Irish in the 50’s when they were no longer the “minority du jour”.
Any idea what to do about it?