Why? I said you shouldn’t go in there in the first place because I knew this was how it would turn out. I also know that nothing the States does short of dropping 500,000 troops into the region will change the situation, and even then, 500,000 more troops might just make the situation worse.

The best thing you can do now is to leave and learn from your mistakes.

All the car bombs, all the executions, all the rapes happening in Iraq right now are the result of a Republican government who refused to listen to the evidence and right-wingers like you who voted them in. This is your mess and some day soon it is going to explode on American soil and on that day remember you are responsible for 1000s more deaths.

My numbers stand. $421 billion. The portion of that for reconstruction has been totally wasted or stolen. 4,000 dead americans, 600,000 dead Iraqis, 1.6 milion displaced. Corruption and violence rule the land. Sunnis fighting Shiites. Al Qaeda trying to stir the pot so we waste more resources there.

Diplomacy would be sitting down and trying to reconcile the SUnnis and Shiites and Kurds, or at least get them talking. Solve some of their differneces, engage other countries in the region, involve them, solve problems etc.

ANd Frank, those women and children are already being slaughtered. 21 were recently executed because John McCain visited a market.

I pass. Let the Iraqis go to hell. If there is a spark of conscience in any of you, it will be on your conscience.

And midderpidge, this isn’t a word game or a high school debating contest, you dick. Real people and real lives are at stake. I know to you they’re just numbers, but I knew real people. And you know why this war is like Vietnam (and you’re calling me ignorant)? Because we’re losing our nerve — again. We’re showing the world we’re a paper tiger — again. We’re showing the Third World, that if “You ain’t white, you ain’t alright” — again. We’re showing the terrorists that if they hang on, we will give up — again.

And if that’s ignorance, educate me. What did I miss?

While you’re sitting by the pool in the backyard this summer, you can think about some 19 year old kid taking a bullet, just before the last day on the Democrats’ timetable, or women and and children being slaughtered by Islamic fanatics because they had the temerity to make friends with GI’s.

But don’t worry, there will be a special on PBS about Right wing violence. You can just turn that Iraq shit off.

Okay Frank, you want to act this fucking stupid, that’s your business. But let’s be clear, the Iraqis want the Americans out of there. Every poll shows this to be true.

And guess what, the American intelligence agencies, all of them, say that being in Iraq is making America less safe and Americans want the Americans out of there as well.

Got that?

You only defense is complaining that Reid says doing what the American people want will win votes for the Dems. That’s it. Oh no. How terrible can he be?

Your are defending a plan that is helping no one by the terrorists you are pretending to fight. You couldn’t be helping Osama bin Laden more if you were on the other side.

…

Let me rephrase that last part.

You couldn’t be helping Osama bin Laden more if you were officially on the other side.

You mean we should recognize the Ambassador from AlQaedia?
Or the Diplomat from Terrorististan?
Pure fucking ignorance, Frank.

As much as most war supporters insist Iraq is nothing like Vietnam and run from any comparisons, frank can’t seem to seperate the two.

Let me repeat myself (for the “smart” one): “Even if they were fired because they weren’t fighting hard enough to prosecute Democrats … what does that have to do with Sen. Reid’s statement that are ‘votes to be won’ by pulling out of Iraq”.

You mean telling all those American men and women over there, that they’re wasting their time, telling the Iraqis, “Fuck you! You’re on your own”, is simply politics as usual?

Holy crap! That takes the cake. Firing political appointees you have every right to fire is the same as abandoning a country and its people to the wolves.
If we have to lose the war on terror, just so people like you stay alive, then fuck it.

Who cares.

Because, obviously, you don’t.

Oh fucking hell. Can someone here translate English into Dumb for me?

Never mind, I’ll try it myself.

…

It’s about hypocrisy.

You are claiming Reid is doing this for political gain. Of course, attacking a POLITICIAN for being POLITICAL seems a might bit strange.

The eight DAs that were fired were fired for political reasons. The justice department was manipulated for political reasons. Choices made in the JUSTICE department were made for POLITICAL reasons.

See the problem? Of course you don’t.

You are attacking Reid for being political, even though he has a mandate from the people to move in this direction. Yet you think bringing politics into the law is just fine.

You are a hypocrite.

4000+ American lives — wrong

600,000+ Iraqi lives — wrong

And no diplomatic effort underway to speak of
You mean we should recognize the Ambassador from AlQaedia?
Or the Diplomat from Terrorististan?

This is the same crap the antiwar left was trying to sling during the Vietnam war, when the [North] Vietnamese had exactly one bargaining chip: Pull out all American troops or we won’t surrender.

Who’s got what to offer us? The Palestinians have reneged on their promises to rein in their terrorists since Carter’s Presidency, yet he continues to denounce the Israeli’s recalcitrance.

What happens when Syria or Iran promises (with their fingers crossed) to stay out of Iraqi affairs if we leave, and then we leave, and they make a move?

Of course, it will be justified with, “You are just infidels! We don’t have to keep our promises to you”.

What do we do then? You know what will happen then

The real plan is: Get the fuck out — yesterday. Fuck the Iraqis, and just forget about the whole thing. Keep up the security checks at the airports, and wait for the next big thing to blow up. I guess you’re planning on not being near it, eh?

There’s an apocryphal story about a man who after World War I, wanted no more to do with wars. He thought, “I won’t live in Europe, or Asia, North America, or even South America or Africa”.

He moved to Pearl Harbor, in Hawaii.

And, if you can’t answer the question, just type, “I dunno”, and be done with it.

Considering you raised the point, and you haven’t answered the question, I would reckon it’s you that seems stupid.

But I’m prepared to hear how you tie the firing of the attorneys to the war in Iraq. It’s not going be like one of those “Six Degrees of Separation from Kevin Bacon” things, is it?

Are you really that stupid? Yes you are.

“Even if they were fired because they weren’t fighting hard enough to prosecute Democrats, a point which hasn’t even been formally made,”

Yes it has.

“let alone proved,”

That’s only because investigations take time and Gonzales repeatedly lied to congress about the issues.

It’s funny how you say we can have homeland security like Israel does, given that your wonderboy George Bush treats domestic anti-terrorism priorities like a red-haired step child. Proof: New Orleans.

Just for the record,
We haven’t spent $400,000,000,000 in Iraq
We have not lost 4,000 American lives in Iraq, and We have not taken 600,000 Iraqi lives in Iraq.

And there were no other “ways to take care of Saddam that didn’t involve destroying their country” (None that had worked to date, anyway)

Of course, if we leave, we’ll never be able to calculate the difference between the lives lost by our presence, and the lives lost by our absence.

Then again, the “bean counting” will end, because it won’t be American lives.

{Pop quiz: How many Vietnamese and Cambodians died at sea trying to escape?}

ND: You have exactly one thing right: We can supply the Iraqis with support, aid, assistance and advisers after we leave.
The question is: Will we?
What would be our motivation?
Wouldn’t the objections of your left wing buddies hold true (civil war, sectarian violence, waste of money, American lives)?
Of course, it would…
You know it, and I know it.
I would love it, if we just pack up and split — the guys and gals come home, back to their stores and offices and schools and families; but there’s a saying: In for a penny, in for a pound.

This isn’t the Cold War, where the other side has a stake in their own preservation.
There’s a story about a conversation between Stalin and Mao: Stalin tried to “muscle” Mao (before he had a nuclear weapon), by saying “We will get our way, because we have the A – Bomb”, and Mao replied, “You don’t want to trade dead with the Chinese”.

That algorithm is not the same with Islamic radicals. We can kill enough of them to make joining the jihad less attractive. We can have homeland security like Israel does — no one has hijacked an El Al airliner.

It can be done. Do you want to say Pres. Bush is not the guy to do it? OK, let’s debate that. Do I wish it was someone else, right now? Yes. But he’s who we’ve got.

Do you want to debate our need to be in Iraq? That I will no longer do. I remember Vietnam. I remember it personally. I know that my friends were killed or placed in re – education camps because they worked for the Army. That must not happen again.

And yes, it is about President Bush. He has essentially wasted 4 years, $400,000,000,000, 4,000 American lives, 600,000 Iraqi lives, the readiness of the US military and the entire country of IRaq with nothing to show for it. It took him 3 1/2 years to admit things weren’t going well. He has a disconnect from reality and wants more money and lives to waste.

At best, extending the US occupation would only buy time for a diplomatic solution. That becomes harder every day and every act of sectarian violence. And Bush has ZERO diplomatic ability. He is unwilling and unable to solve the problem.

Iraq is about the civil war. It is in this chaos that Al Qaeda is able to sit back and join the various factions in sniping at pinned down US forces.

It matters whose fault it is because why should we trust the incompetent criminal self-serving dill-holes who got us into the quagmire to get us out of it? Bush already admitted that it will be the next president’s problem. Seems he’s content to just set the war on cruise control until he can high-tail it back to Crawford or wherever the fuck he’s going to slither off to.

“Iraq will be destroyed, if they get away with it.”

As opposed to the immaculate condition we’ve got it in now? Maybe another “Shock And Awe” campaign will help. How about more Depleted Uranium? Maybe we can pump raw sewage through the streets until everyone just gets tired of the smell and stops hating us being there.

And if you’re arguing that the Congressional Democrats screwed South Vietnam by cutting off their aid after we left, then wouldn’t it be OK for us to pull out of Iraq, as long as we continue to (or start to) provide them aid after we leave?

“And don’t tell me how peaceful Iraq was before we got there.”

I’m not saying it was peaceful. It was a sovereign country that hadn’t attacked us and posed no threat to us. There were ways to take care of Saddam that didn’t involve destroying their country. But you don’t give a shit about that, do you? Of course not. As long as we don’t blame Bush, it’s all good.

Even if they were fired because they weren’t fighting hard enough to prosecute Democrats, a point which hasn’t even been formally made, let alone proved, what does that have to do with Sen. Reid’s statement that are “votes to be won” by pulling out of Iraq. He did say that, you know.

midderpidge: The war in Iraq is not about President Bush. It. Is. Not. About. President. Bush.

It is about the War on Terror. Just like people were wrong to say that in Vietnam we were in a civil war, it is wrong now to say that this war is about Sunnis versus Shiites, and wrong to say that it is about Muslims versus Jews, and wrong to say that it is about Democrats versus Republicans.

This war is about an organized, equipped and financed group of Islamic fanatics who want to bring down the Great Satan,the USA.

That, and nothing more. Not WMD’s, not Hussein’s role in 9/11, and not keeping Pres. Bush in office.

We can go over mistake by mistake, wasted dollars, missing dollars, dead soldiers, growing violence, chaos, growing terrorism, etc etc etc, but the fact remains Bush’s own history of failure has allowed and nearly dictated that the Democrats undercut him in Iraq.

You have got to be fucking kidding me. The Republicans are about nothing more than politics, or have you forgotten about the fired D.A.s already? Everything NeoCons do is about keeping the party strong, even if it hurts the country.

“by abandoning the Iraqis but the Democrats?”

The Iraqis want you out of there, so how can you call it abandoning them?