He was armed to the teeth.
Virginia State Police say they’re nearly done with their on-scene investigation at Virginia Tech. But inside the classroom building, investigators say they found a surprising number of handgun magazines, or clips — 17. Some, officials say, were high-capacity magazines that hold 33 rounds. That means, investigators say, that Cho may have fired at least 200 times during his killing spree on Monday.
In the photos Cho sent to NBC, he showed some of his ammunition — hollow-point rounds, purchased, officials say, in the weeks before the shootings. Law enforcement officials say hollow-points are generally considered more lethal.
Joseph Vince, a retired ATF agent, agrees.
“It’s not something that you would need for home protection, because what you are trying to do is eliminate an immediate threat,” Vince says. “The idea of killing is what this ammunition portrays to me.”
No, we need hollow points for target practice and hunting. We need high capacity clips for target practice and hunting. And definitely, the founders back in 1789 totally had hollow points and high capacity clips in mind.
You believe these things if you’re a gun nut or an idiot (essentially the same).
This was a dangerous, disturbed, twisted kid that was probably going to kill someone at some point. But the easy availability of these killing machines made it easy for him to kill a lot of people.
Oh, I’m a gun nut, and I absolutely believe these things should be openly available.
… just as long as you jump through a lot of hoops. I think acquiring guns and ammunition should be more, not less, difficult than getting permission to own and operate a car – a lot more difficult. As in, proof of operating ability, registration, licensing, background checks, et.
Hey Wilbur, I suppose Oliver saying that the NRA had a “role” in the VA Tech tragedy is that clear rational thought that we don’t see at National Review Online.
Willis, this is low, even for you.
Um, Jay, who’s the organization who has fought the hardest and with the most money to defeat any and all regulation of guns?
Hint: it rhymes with NRA.
Oliver, what law would have prevented this crime?
Name it.
It turns out one of the guns was purchased illegally.
The other gun sale was only permissible, because a loophole wrongly prevented his diagnosis and legal assessment from showing up on his background check.
Numerous people at the College were aware of the fact that this guy’s behavior had gone well beyond that of a beanie – wearing frat boy, but they didn’t have the gumption to confront him or the college about it — long before he was BOTH and dangerous.
But blame the guns.
Both *armed* and dangerous
“if you’re a gun nut or an idiot (essentially the same)”
Woo … Oliver, those are some pretty heavy words to levy at your brothas in the hood …
Well, you do know that the males in urban hip-hop gansta culture are the true gun-obsessed nuts in America, don’t you?
Think about it. Ever hear a country singer go on about how big his piece is, or how he is going to pop somebody who gets in his way?
And here’s another funny thing. If you ever go to a gunshow, count how many gangstas you see. That’s right, it’s next to none. But somehow the hood is flush with guns.
The the largest percentages of murders and victims in America are black males.
Go ahead. Explain how inner city black males became the new gun nuts and why crime has been steadily high in New York City, Washington D. C. and Los Angeles since they all have strict gun control laws.
Ever hear a country singer go on about how big his piece is, or how he is going to pop somebody who gets in his way?
Well, Johnny Cash (”I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die”) immediately comes to mind.
Numerous people at the College were aware of the fact that this guy’s behavior had gone well beyond that of a beanie – wearing frat boy, but they didn’t have the gumption to confront him or the college about it — long before he was BOTH and dangerous.
Ah yes, the John Derbyshire argument: Guns don’t kill people — wussy American males do.
Frank, why should society bear the burden of proving that this guy was too crazy to own a gun?
Seems like it would make a lot more sense for the burden of proof to be on the individual, or an expert, to determine who is sane enough to handle a hand gun responsibly.
We all agree that there are reasonable limits on the first amendment, so why can’t we agree that there are reasonable limits on the second amendment too?
Way to go,Mike! Reaching back to, what, 1969? He kicks off a long, long list of gun obsessed tunes from the Country Music world.
It makes me want to LOL out loud!
Frank, why should society bear the burden of proving that this guy was too crazy to own a gun?
Because you want “reasonable limits on the second amendment”. That is one.
One of the limits on the First Amendment is that you can’t stand on a street corner haranguing people with insults,epithets, and curse words.
Should we wait for an expert or a professional, before we report him to the police?
All I am saying is that there was a process in place which, had it worked, would have stopped him cold…
I have suggested other actions that would make it easier to stop people like this, BEFORE they’re armed.
What you’re suggesting is like the old schoolhouse trick, “Because Johnny didn’t do his homework,I’m going to give the whole class extra homework”.
Why can’t we rely on other
people for prevention?
You want take away everyone’s right to own a gun.
Personally, it’s easy for me to sympathize with you. I wouldn’t care if no one had a gun — beat cops included.
But, philosophically, that right exists for a reason. That reason has never gone away. I have already suggested in another thread steps that might be taken, which might go a long way towards preventing incidents of this kind.
From today’s Times:
TEST
“Oliver, what law would have prevented this crime?”
Ah yes but conceal and carry legislation, that would saved the day …
Actually, there are several laws, in place,which would have gone a long way towards prevented this, had been properly applied and implemented.
And since THAT could occur, at anytime (aside to frameone: even more often than police messing up in a shootout), then why take away everybody else’s guns?
Shooting shows gaps in U.S. mental health safety net
I am not making this up
I love the racist angle, that hasn’t been tried before… Listen up: we have too many guns in America, whether that’s in Washington D.C. or Okoboji, Iowa. It doesn’t matter if you’re black or white or asian or whatever. Too many people, be they good ole boys, street toughs, white suburbanites or buppies, fetishize guns.
We’ve got a country that allows pissed off people of all sorts of mental illness and impairment to walk into a store and buy a machine designed for mass killing. We shouldn’t.
See, I did that without being racist like Mike! I must be “one of the good ones”.
Ass.
Frank. You have to fix your BLOCKQUOTE.
“Listen up: we have too many guns in America”
Hell yeah. Guns are too easy to get and too hard to keep out of the wrong hands.
I really don’t think having a mental health check is a bad thing if someone wants to own a gun. And this isn’t something banned by the 2nd Ad. Some restrictions are allowed, otherwise violent felons would be allowed to own guns.
Thanks for fixing it
We’ve got a country that allows pissed off people of all sorts of mental illness and impairment to walk into a store and buy a machine designed for mass killing. We shouldn’t.
Again, I will ask:
What law would have prevented this crime?
You keep going on and on like there is such a simple solution. You should have a simple answer.
I really don’t think having a mental health check is a bad thing if someone wants to own a gun.
If he had been forced into a hospital for his condition, that would have come up on the background check and he wouldn’t have been able to purchase the guns.
But I don’t see anybody blaming the magistrate who instead of getting him into a hospital told him to seek out-patient therapy. I don’t see anybody pinning any blame on those who didn’t file charges against Cho after two separate stalking incidents. I don’t see anybody blaming a system that doesn’t allow a school to be notified by the courts and psychiatric authorities that a student was in a mental facility.
Of course, Rich Lowry questioning why Va Tech allowed this guy to stay in school despite all that was known about him is out of bounds and beyond the pale.
No, its all the NRA’s fault.
i had previously posted a simple solution jay. ban all handguns except revolvers. ordinary citizens can still defend themselves and wackos like cho can’t take out as many people.
have you ever seen a speedloader brif?
I am a semiauto guy, but I have seen guys put dozens of rounds downrange with a revolver and a speedloader in seconds.
And everytime Ollie speaks on this all I can he is “baaaaa, baaaa,baaaa weapon of mass murder!”
The ATF officer is full of shit, Oliver. Did you possibly think of that option?
If hollowpoint ammunition is suitable only for killing, then why is that the ATF ONLY carries hollowpoints in their pistols, their submachineguns and their carbine rifles? Does the ATF want to only kill people?
Or maybe they carry hollowpoints for the same reason I carry hollowpoints: So that when I am lethally threatened, I stop the threat as fast as possible. That is logical.
You, on the other hand, are a hyper-emotional cry baby looking for any excuse to blame this on anyone or anything but the murderer.
pedro i have never seen a shooter of cho’s limited experience do that.
And everytime Ollie speaks on this all I can he is “baaaaa, baaaa,baaaa weapon of mass murder!”
Translation? Anyone?
I am weary, frustrated, and angry that Mike and others of his ilk think that guns — like drugs, prostitution, and check-cashing stores — just somehow magically pop up in African-American communities. As if African-Americans have some irresistible attraction for these activities! As if! The placement of gun dealers, dope peddlers, whore mongers, and money lenders is no coincidence, merely the evidence that mainstream America is serious about the destruction of African-American life, institutions, and communities. No ifs, ands, or buts about it!
Personally, I agree with Chris Rock on this issue; You can’t ban guns outright, that genie has left the bottle. But make the ammunition harder to get. Like make bullets cost $100 a piece. Make someone think twice about “popping a cap.”
OW & You “Progressive” Commenters – You’ve obviously never handled a firearm or know anything about guns, ammunition, or your rights.
3 items that I’d like to respond to:
1 – No, we need hollow points for target practice and hunting.
Hollow Points are perfect for hunting, in they expand upon impact and ensure a quick kill. They are used everyday in deer hunting, etc, etc as they are considered a standard round. These aren’t armor piercing or military grade bullets.
2 – I think acquiring guns and ammunition should be more, not less, difficult than getting permission to own and operate a car – a lot more difficult. As in, proof of operating ability, registration, licensing, background checks, et.
I don’t recall the Constitutional right to operate a vehicle. I call B.S..
3 – I am weary, frustrated, and angry that Mike and others of his ilk think that guns — like drugs, prostitution, and check-cashing stores — just somehow magically pop up in African-American communities. As if African-Americans have some irresistible attraction for these activities! As if! The placement of gun dealers, dope peddlers, whore mongers, and money lenders is no coincidence, merely the evidence that mainstream America is serious about the destruction of African-American life, institutions, and communities. No ifs, ands, or buts about it!
No, [illegal] guns, drugs, prostitution, and other criminal activity pop-up in communities where criminals live or can operate with relative impunity. This isn’t an African-American vs Honky issue, as there are plenty of these activities taking place in neighborhoods with varying racial makeups. But, it is important that HipHop, which is primarily an African-American art, has a inordinate focus on violence, drugs, gangs, and treating women like “ho’s”. It certainly occurs in other forms of music, but it’s predominant in Hip-Hop, Gangsta Rap, etc, etc.
Just saying…
Anyone interested in the mental health issues involved in the VTech shootings, might want to start here.
Guns don’t turn people into killers.
Gun Control Isn’t the Answer
By James Q. Wilson
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2007
Los Angeles Times
Publication Date: April 20, 2007
But, it is important that HipHop, which is primarily an African-American art,
…with a primarily white audience…
Quaker: You’re not suggesting that a greater percentage of whites listen to rap and hip-hop than that of blacks — that’s absurd!
not talking about the audience, talking about the content…
You’re not suggesting that a greater percentage of whites listen to rap and hip-hop than that of blacks
You’re right. I’m not suggesting that, or stating that, or implying that.
I’m saying that the audience for rap and hip-hop is primarily white.
Of course gun control laws aren’t an easy answer to the problem of crime. No-one ever claimed it was. Because that is completely stupid.
What it is, is COMMON MOTHERFUCKING SENSE.
As of last Thursday, the good citizens of the City of Brotherly Love had killed 115 of their fellow good citizens. The Philadelphia Inquirer noted recently (wish I still had the link) that 85% of the (identified) murderers and their victims had criminal records.
Some sort of argument could be made for “reasonable gun control,” if such had ever shown itself to actually work. Trouble is, it never has.
OW – Thought you’d find this factoid interesting. The ATF agent quoted by MSNBC, the guy who idiotically stated that hollowpoints aren’t for protection, is Joseph Vince. He happens to be in the leadership for the AHSA, which is a pro-gun control group, masquerading as a hunters’ rights group.
Of course, MSNBC didn’t find it newsworthy to mention his affiliation as a LEADER OF THIS GUN CONTROL GROUP in its story, instead preferring to simply use the “Former ATF Agent” tag.
Of course, MSNBC is part of the right-wing media cabal, no?
Put that in your Media Matters bias-pipe and smoke it (or however that metaphor should be written).
