I have to say, it’s not my favorite thing to do, but I think I need to do it more. In the last week I’ve seen such an amazingly appallingly bad grasp on what black people think, believe, etc. from commentators on both the left and right (who are mostly, largely, white) I just think it’s something that’s got to be done.
Frankly sometimes I wonder if a lot of these folks have ever talked to a black person.
Surely you’re not suggesting that all black people think, believe, etc. the same way.
And I’m curious–genuinely, Oliver, not in any “gotcha” manner–what your response is to this article.
Hey! I left a comment on here! Close enough!
Go for it, OW. Unfortunately, I don’t think some folks will handle it well–a lot of my fellow white guys tend to “raise shields and fire phasers in all directions” whenever challenged on biases. The people willing to listen and understand are not the people who most need to do so.
Is there a way to tell what color blog commenters are? Is it like Onstar or something?
This ought to be interesting coming from a “dumb kid.”
I can see you through the computer.
I don’t totally disagree with Whitlock but I think conflating the two issues only because they involve race is silly. And no, blacks definitely don’t see an issue the same way. When it comes to a lot of racial issues I’m way out of the mainstream of the black majority (not as far out as black conservatives, but not mainstream either).
Oliver, you don’t need to do that. Doc Anatole knows everything there is to know about race relations in American.
Crusty old whitebread cracker that he is. But he’s a liberal and that’s all that counts (to him).
Actually, as one of the “black conservatives” you like to deride, you and I are much closer than you and most black “liberals” when it comes to race.
And as far as Whitlock is concerned, think of it this way, Oliver- the terms “nappy headed” and “ho” probably isn’t something that an average 60+ year old white man came up with on his own. They came from and is used often in popular black American culture, the most powerful and creative (and most imitated) culture on the planet.
Thus when crusty old white guy radio jock uses it in a joking way, why the hell are we so shocked and offended. (Though I think Imus should have been canned for his offensiveness in regards to race and many other things a long time ago.) This is stuff we hear every day in popular culture. I have no problem with firing Imus AND calling out all the knuckleheads who contiually perpetuate this crap.
When I can go to Amsterdam and Lagos and hear the same American rappers booming out of cars as though I were in the hood, and hear some of the exact same crap that you called Michelle Malkin “stupiest” for writing about, it is almost embarrassing to hear other cultures trying to emulate the way we disrespect ourselves and women- black women in particular. You know- women like the ones that raised you and me.
Discussing race is always difficult!! And I believe that the average white person has no interest in talking to blacks about anything.
I don’t like this argument that the word “nappy headed” originated with blacks and that we are responsible for its continued use. I’ve lived in Detroit my whole life and have never heard my family, friends, neighbors use that term. I believe that its origins comes from the same place as the “n” word.
And I don’t really disagree but I still don’t see why it comes up in the Imus argument. I’m not defending that kind of music.
Oliver: I’d be interested to hear if you have anything new to say about race.
I’d be interested to hear if there any conservative blacks*, besides Bishop T.D. Jakes, that you respect.
And I think that up until this moment, all I’ve ever heard from you is “Scratch an Afro-American, and you’ll find a liberal inside”, and “Scratch a Republican, and you’ll find a racist inside”.
I’d love to hear something else.
* Any chance you’ll ever link here?
I couldn’t even finish that article by Jason. I am SO MAD WITH THIS CRAP!!!!!
I hear people blaming rappers, comedians and Jesse and Al all over the place.
My god man, a comedy show is for comedy not news. Comedy Central frequently posts warnings before shows start, Mencia and SouthPark at least.
CD”s also have warning stickers. I find that rap is poetry put to a beat and the poet has the right to use any words he/she wants. It is part of the culture and the slang and it sells. So what, don’t by it! I am a classical musician and I like rap. I find it inventive and interesting.
I have heard people now say that Imus’ comment was the fault of rappers and hiphop.
WHAT??
Imus is an old racist that finally said the wrong thing to the wrong people at the wrong time.
Check this;
Paying the Price
April 12, 2007
Op-Ed Columnist
By BOB HERBERT
You knew something was up early in the day. As soon as I told executives at MSNBC that I was going to write about the “60 Minutes” piece, which was already in pretty wide circulation, they began acting very weird. We’ll get back to you, they said.
In a “60 Minutes” interview with Don Imus broadcast in July 1998, Mike Wallace said of the “Imus in the Morning” program, “It’s dirty and sometimes racist.”
Mr. Imus then said: “Give me an example. Give me one example of one racist incident.”
To which Mr. Wallace replied, “You told Tom Anderson, the producer, in your car, coming home, that Bernard McGuirk is there to do nigger jokes.”
Mr. Imus said, “Well, I’ve nev — I never use that word.”
Mr. Wallace then turned to Mr. Anderson, his producer. “Tom,” he said.
“I’m right here,” said Mr. Anderson.
Mr. Imus then said to Mr. Anderson, “Did I use that word?”
Mr. Anderson said, “I recall you using that word.”
“Oh, O.K.,” said Mr. Imus. “Well, then I used that word. But I mean — of course, that was an off-the-record conversation. But ——”
“The hell it was,” said Mr. Wallace.
The transcript was pure poison. A source very close to Don Imus told me last night, “They did not want to wait for your piece to come out.”
For MSNBC, Mr. Imus’s “nappy-headed ho’s” comment about the Rutgers women’s basketball team was bad enough. Putting the word “nigger” into the so-called I-man’s mouth was beyond the pale.
Oliver- I just told you why it comes up. Where the heck do you think the term “ho” comes from. Did Imus just originate a new term?
No- it comes from the same brothers who would deride you and me for using proper English most of the time. It has become a part of our popular culture because of a beautiful art form that is often a moral quagmire. Do you think those white suburban kids talking “pimps” and “ho’s” and “niggas” just came up with that sh-t all by themselves? Is the old fool who makes a joke about it confused about the firestorm because the term “ho” is such a rare and frowned upon thing to say?
Hell- A group just got a friggin’ Oscar for the same kid of sh-t earlier this year.
Why would you be confused as to why it would come up in reference to what Imus said about these young black women? Do you think the Imus incident is so isolated in our culture that we can’t bring up the popular use of the words he chose?
Don’t write a blog that generalizes everything that you disagree with to paint with a very broad brush a picture of the culture around those things.
How the hell can we NOT talk about what Imus said in the context of what it means to in the American culture at large? Those of you who say it’s completely different are just kidding yourselves. A discussion about race, words, and how they are used is completely relevant to a discussion about Don Imus. How the heck can you NOT understand that?
I’ve lived in Detroit my whole life and have never heard my family, friends, neighbors use that term
So I guess you’re the white guy that Oliver was talking about, who has never spoken to a black man.
Next “Black word of the Day”: ashy
Oliver… spot on on the whole conflating issues comment. Both need to be addressed, but for pete sake folks – one at a time.
And Marty… please – are you really trying to say that “nappy headed” is a term that some “old white man” learned from Blacks… same w/ Hoes – which naturally leads to the logical(term used oh so loosely) conclusion that said gentleman also learned the use of the N word from?
As for discussing what Imus said in the context of American culture at large, fine… we need to do that, but again don’t try and conflate a variety of loosely (word choices) connected things. The reason the whole Imus thing has gone down the way it has is due to the fact that he’s been at this a long time and offended a great number of people and groups.
ROFLMAO
“As for discussing what Imus said in the context of American culture at large, fine… we need to do that…”
Wow, Kevin. That’s pretty much what I said. Just in a different way.
And that is what Oliver’s confusion was about- “And I don’t really disagree but I still don’t see why it comes up in the Imus argument.”
Of course Imus has been offending people for years which racially charged and other language. I already said he should have been fired years ago.
So BS on the one at a time thing. I gave my answer on whether Imus should be fired on day 1. I moved on to the big picture. (Walk and chew gum much, there Kev?)
And FYI, Kevin- the term “ho” is relatively new in the context of popular culture (Thank you Mr. Robinson’s Neighborhood) as opposed to black vernacular. But for the 20 something generation it may be just as common as saying hello. As for the “nappy headed” part- who knows where that originated. I heard it mostly from the black grandmothers when I was growing up (”Boy- get your nappy head in here.”). Obviously n-gger is from a whole different place, as opposed to “nigga” which has also seemed to gain inevitability if not acceptance in some corners of hip hop culture.
But the latter really wasn’t a part of this discussion until a couple of comments ago.
Glad I could make you laugh though.
I’m 48 and have never listened to rap in my life.
I’ve heard the term nappy headed plenty of times. And it was never meant to be a compliment.
Again, it all depends on context–anybody remember the ridiculous controversy some years ago over the children’s book Nappy Hair?
The local black community raised a stink over a respected white teacher reading this book–written by a black woman–to her class, ultimately leading to her transfer away from that school.
Mr. Willis,
You might be interested in a racial dialogue initiative I started at the high school I teach.
Starting next week, our black Assistant Principal and I, the dorky white guy teacher, will sit down with four hand-picked underachieving, otherwise intelligent, students.
It’s goal is to discern exactly what you bring up…what do african american students really think.
If you would like more information, feel free to email me.
Please write more about race. I am not at all sure that race is the real story of the Imus thing — Vivian Stringer probably got it right: “its not a black white thing — its a green thing.” After all, Limbaugh is still on the air because his sponsers still support him. They believe that Limbaugh can still sell debt, energy and memory loss remedies to middle-aged white men. Fine. MSNBC and CBS radio seem to have lost that feeling about Imus.One is not a criminal — until one breaks the law. Imus was not a bigot until — well, he’s been a bigot for a long time.
One down, many to go.
Me, I don’t see in color. People tell me I’m white, but I really wouldn’t know.
-Stephen Colbert
This bullsh*t these apologists and defenders of Don Imus are now spewing on the airways and throughout the blogosphere is really trippin’ me out! I can’t believe what I’m reading/hearing!
But let me get this straight:
1. Rappers are Don Imus’ role model. He copies and mimics their lyrics and mode of thinking. All 67-year old white men and their cohorts look to rappers to determine their vocabulary, their view of women, and their sense of what’s funny and what isn’t.
2. Rappers, prior to Don Imus’ notoriously demeaning characterization of the Rutgers women’s basketball team, have never been criticized for flagrant misogyny or for the use of racist terminology. Rappers are idolized by every segment of the African-American community and frequently held up as role models. Practically every African-American mother tells her child, “When you grow up, I want you to be a rapper, and not just any kind of rapper, but one who uses racist, sexist words all the time.”
3. After Jesse Jackson used the anti-Semitic phrase, “hymie town,” he went on to become President of the United States.
4. Al Sharpton has the highest level of credibility among all demographics, and Americans never bring up Tawana Brawley, except to provide evidence of Al Sharpton’s patriotism and love of this great nation of ours.
5. You can tell that racism, sexism, and classism is no longer a problem in America because African-Americans are consistently provided the best education, best housing, best employment opportunities, highest salaries, and every other means of material success and upward mobility. Because of the complete eradication of racism, sexism, and classism, drugs, guns, and prostitution are no longer found predominantly in African-American neighborhoods.
I’m sure that’s the way it is in 21st century modern America.
GaPeach103: Go, Dawgs!
I am just glad that I occasionally talk to a black person. Since black people all have each other’s email addresses, I can just talk to one. Which is nice.
I am nice. A nice white person.
Smart-ass comments aside, white people are often so far removed from black life that they don’t even get the basics. White people get the idea that there are no black elderly people. Why? Because they didn’t appear on Friends and Seinfeld and Woody Allen, the only filmmaker to succeed in removing 2.7 million black people from New York through cinematography. Young black actors barely made it on Friends and Seinfeld, if at all; they removed black people not by cinematography, but by videography, a different technology for the bleaching of a tie-dye city. But elderly black folks? Nah.
Black culture misses white people often completely. Little things. Like what jumping the broom is, or the custom of women wearing white on the 5th Sunday of the month. Or the deep – DEEP – respect shown within Black families for grandmothers, great aunts and other women of similar age, a cultural trait not unique to Black life but certainly culturally distinctive.
Miserable that white people in 1/3 Black-Maryland are usually no smarter on these things than in Vermont, where they have, what, 14 Black people? Maybe in Montgomery it’s a little better, but I don’t know.
I am just glad that I occasionally talk to a black person
We are, too, Bruce. Do you email this black person every day, or twice a week?
Have you ever actually touched a black person?
Tell us more about your multicultural experience with the Afro – American…