This isn’t greasing the wheels to get a road built. This is as much as $30,000,000 worth of oil being stolen every day. Anyone who complains or tries to stop it gets a dead relative in the lawn or is killed outright.

This isn’t kickbacks over contracts. This is the defense ministry taking a billion dollars from the US to buy equipment, purchasing $10 million in Soviet hand me downs and the rest of the money disappearing.

This is thousands of weapons the US sent to arm Iraqi army members and police officers that have disappeared.

It’s capital budgets not being spent. Equipment and infrastructure not being updated. Etc.

How do you install a democratic government and enforce a constitution when the very people charged with upholding the laws are more interested in raking in the money and power? Even if they have to kill anyone who gets in their way? Its essentially a fragmented government with the pieces run by corrupt mini-Husseins.

You’re good at review, midderpidge, why don’t you review your comments and frameone’s comments since then, and see where you addressed me seriously with the intent of having a discussion.

This has been going on for 7 hours, and somehow you blame me.

Now: While it is the prectice here in the US of A to use influence to grease the wheels of bureaucratic progress (I know somebody in ______, who can help me with that; in the government we called them either “godfathers” or “rabbis”), in most places of the rest of the world they use cold, hard, cash.

Frameone,you were being ethnocentric, and the both of you were wrong. What is called “corruption” here, might be perfectly acceptable elsewhere.

So not only is corruption not antithetical to democracy, but they can co-exist nicely side by side.

Good night.

You asked for supporting evidence.
You started calling everybody names in this thread.
You failed to make any argument explaining your position. Instead you were more interested in whining about the name calling you started.

And Frank, I know the Gettysburg Address is the house where Lincoln’s mistress lived, so there.

Recap:

Midderpidge: there’s rampant corruption.
Frank: prove it.
Midderpidge: here’s an article and the ISG report that lays it out for you.
Midderpidge: some of that corruption funds the insurgents.
Frank: prove it.
Midderpidge: here’s the GAO report.
Frank: you are an stupid, Tweedledum.
Midderpidge: ok TweedleGeezer.
Frank: BoooHoooo! You called me a geezer.
Midderpidge: whatever.
Frank: you can’t make an argument without calling me names.
Midderpidge: Ok, here are my points 1-2-3-4.
Frank: No, No, No, No.
Midderpidge: here’s why I say 1-2-3-4.
Frank: No!
Midderpidge: why no?
Frank: I’m not going to explain it because you are going to call me names!

Honestly. You are nuttier than a fruit cake.

I can make a statement about whether or not corruption is a roadblock to democracy without quoting a newspaper article.
You guys are doing a fine job of insulting me, and you’re not quoting any newspaper articles to do it.

Here’s a question for you: Is there anywhere in that staement an indication that I want you to produce a newspaper article to back up your statement that “corruption is antithetical to democratic processes”?

But I am enjoying reading your comments, Paul.

So many words to say so little!

Honestly, is it not on its face obvious that corruption is antithetical to democratic processes? It’s like why in the hell does this have to be explained to you? You actually want someone to cite you a newspaper article or “person of authority” to confirm that yes, corruption is bad for democracy building? Seriously?

To the extent that democracies require the public to have faith in the voting and legislative process, corruption thoroughly undermines that faith as it is a means for the few and the powerful to thwart the will of the people for their own gains. This is obvious. Hell, this is why they call it CORRUPTION! It’s CORRUPTING!

For crying out loud. You’re a total idiot.

(naturally you’ll only acknowledge that i called you an idiot, which you are, and completely ignore the rest of this comment)

You guys are doing a fine job of insulting me, and you’re not quoting any newspaper articles to do it.

You both are fundamentally mistaken, but I’m not going to point it out to you while I’m ducking for cover.

See, insulting is all you can do, frameone.

Meanwhile, midderpidge might actually believe I’ve never heard of the Gettysburg Address; he might even believe it’s a legal document.

So,carry on. I hope at least one of you is having a good time, because your usual hangers on seem to be otherwise occupied.

But I’m reading your posts. Yes, and they are revealing.

See Frank, Democracy is supposed to be government of the people by the people. What Iraq has is government of the powerful to line their own pockets at the expense of everyone else.

I don’t need a newspaper article to back up my posiiton … Hilariass! So what you’re saying is that rampant corruption isn’t a roadblock to democracy because you say it is?

mercy, frank, mercy …

Enjoy yourselves.

Okay, great frank. Corruption is not inherently anti-democratic. Sure. Whatever you say.

It’s simply astonishing how far conservatives will go to protect their fantasy worldview. We now have frank on the record arguing that corruption poses no serious threat to a democratic society all because he wants to defend some ridiculous idea that everything is going just swimmingly in iraq.

It really is fascinating how the conservative mind works.

Some of that money goes to terrorists and insurgents who buy guns and bombs and other weapons and use them to create chaos. Not a roadblock

We train Iraqis to eventually take our place, but the militias pay better so some, after training, join the militias. Some stay in the Iraq army by day and run with the militias at night. Not a problem.

We provide billions of dollars in support to that army. We provide them with guns and weapons many of which aren’t accounted for and are probably in the hands of terrorists and insurgents. Not a roadblock.

And we haven’t even talked about the reconstruction money. Reconstruction that hasn’t been accomplished despite the hefty price tag. Billions of dollars have simply disappeared. Inflated costs, overcharges, overruns, work charged and not done, equipment bought but not delivered. Things are going well.

In Frank’s delirium, it simply isn’t happening. And because it isn’t happening it can’t be a roadblock. That and the beautiful ponies.

Swell.

Must every one of your comments include an insult?

You’re a real piece of work.

When you have to be given basic citizenship and civics lessons, you really have to get off the koolaid my dumbfuck friend.