But just stop a second and think. We have this big, ongoing torture brouhaha here. But its not just torture 9/10s of progressives would stop. They would not even permit any surveillance evidently.

Enlighten me, oh corpulent one.

duros

You could make a better case for lie if you showed both sides of the issue, considered context and then rendered a sane judgment.

Did you give the Bush side any cosnsidertion before he magically discovered Bush meant to lie. Did hyou consider when Bush made the remarks and about what issue. Could he have misspoke? And the biggets, did you carefully research the difference between wiretap and eaves dropping? Do you know the diffrence?

Do you ever wonder why this Pres who could ‘trick’ most of the Democratic Congress into supporting a war (this is in your world, not mine) would lie so openly that blog posters all over the world can pick it up easily?

It was in the fucking paper, ya idjit!

This was AFTER the story came out.

So, yes, assuming that he read the paper, or had someone read it to him,

HE KNEW IT WAS A FALSE STATEMENT!

AAAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!

Bush said, “We are doing everything we can to avoid war in Iraq.”

At that same time, not only had he made the decision to go to war (as shown in memo after memo), he was trying to provoke Saddam into starting a war.

So he wasn’t AVOIDING war. You don’t have to be a mind-reader to understand that he was lying. He was intentionally deceiving us into believing he was trying to avoid war. This is a lie.

If I say, “I am doing everything I can to avoid running over your cat,” and at the same time there is evidence that I am, indeed, chasing your cat down with my car, I have lied.

Plain and simple, Dugger. Good bye.

Proving my point conclusively once again. To prove Bush as Pres has lied, you first have to believe progressives are mind readers.

Duros, amazingly, knows what Bush knew. Not opinion mind you. Duros ‘knows’ the president’s thoughts were. Congratulations on your super power. Please use it for the good of mankind.

hey Media,

how ’bout that secret Bush war plan scheme you discovered, the one coordinated with the UN and announced in the media???

Except for the 29%-ers like yourself.

When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.
Sinclair lewis, 1935

Indeed, more paranoid garbage. First of all your story is old news and is just now being repackaged in a book by a Limey leftist anti-war type. The article you quote doesn’t actually quote Bush since the speaker, who you would like to think is Bush, talks about the US in the third person. Notice it doesn’t quote the memo. Also exactly how is it we would send up a fake UN plane, get it shot down and make something out of it. Wouldn’t, uhh, the UN say it wasn’t theirs if it was fake??? Did you eveer actaully consider that????

Furthermore,

IRAQI NEWS AGENCY (State-run)

February 19, 2003

The United Nations gave Iraq 48 hours notice before sending an American U-2 spy plane on its first flight over Iraqi territory in support of the UN search for weapons of mass destruction, officials said Tuesday.

Iraq agreed to the over flights last week. The agreement was followed by a decree from Presidential edict banning chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, issued hours before a key report by chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix.

Hiro Ueki, a spokesman for the inspectors in Baghdad, said the flight happened Monday with the 48-hours notice Iraq demanded.

IRAQI NEWS AGENCY (State-run)

February 19, 2003

The United Nations gave Iraq 48 hours notice before sending an American U-2 spy plane on its first flight over Iraqi territory in support of the UN search for weapons of mass destruction, officials said Tuesday.

Iraq agreed to the over flights last week. The agreement was followed by a decree from Presidential edict banning chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, issued hours before a key report by chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix.

Hiro Ueki, a spokesman for the inspectors in Baghdad, said the flight happened Monday with the 48-hours notice Iraq demanded.

Furthermore (bozo),

“February 19, 2003

The United Nations gave Iraq 48 hours notice before sending an American U-2 spy plane on its first flight over Iraqi territory in support of the UN search for weapons of mass destruction, officials said Tuesday.

Iraq agreed to the over flights last week. The agreement was followed by a decree from Presidential edict banning chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, issued hours before a key report by chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix.

Hiro Ueki, a spokesman for the inspectors in Baghdad, said the flight happened Monday with the 48-hours notice Iraq demanded.

“The Iraqi authorities were asked to ensure the safety of the U-2 flight and they accepted,” Ueki said.”

Thats your secret plan for war. Ohh, that evil Bush. Making a secret plan common knowledge and then coordinating with the UN. How clever!!!

No lies have documented re Pres Bush. That remains.

This will be the last comment I make to you, as you are obviously either a 3-year-old or an older person with the analytical skills of one.

Actually you are wrong. I have explained it. Here. Last year. I challenged everyone her to prove alie. that was one lame attempt. It is till lame. And BTW, if it were a contradiction, it doesn’t prove a lie. Get it? Lie requires intent. Do you read minds? Know Bush’s intent?

You have yet to even come close to proving a lie. No one here has.

He gave you a source. It’s those words with the line under them.

Paranoid BS, “according to a leaked memo of a meeting between the US President and Tony Blair.” Yeah okay.

Dugger, You still haven’t explained this nugget.

“Now, by the way, anytime you hear the United States government talking about wire tap, it requires—a wire tap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we’re talking about chasing down terrorists, we’re talking about getting a court order before we do so.”
George W. Bush
April 20, 2004
Buffalo, New York

What two facts? You gave me what I assume is an out of context Bush quote and then some paranoid BS about a plot involving a fake UN plane. I’ve heard Bush knew ahead about 9/11, Kennedy was set up by the CIA at Chapapquidick and that Republicans sabotaged Wellstone’s plane, but not this one. Source?

A lie requires intent. Therefore you must know (not what you might read in some progressive comic book) Bush’s intent to prove lie.

At the time, Bush was planning on luring Saddam into war with a fake U.N. plane.

Reconcile those two facts for me, and then tell me Bush didn’t lie us into war, Dugger.

Bush has not been proven to ‘lie’ us into war. Not a single lie has been documented re Pres Bush. And most all the Clintonistas are on record as saying Saddam had WMDs or programs and something needed to be done about him – pre Bush and post Bush election.

Bush also does not fund the troops. Congress does. And the progressives in that body are right now working very hard to underfund the troops – consciously.

Bush is a big spender domestically and has had an interventionist neocon foreign policy. the latter is not traditionally conservative. Perhaps you can’t get past his religion to look at what he has done.

As a Liberal, I would welcome Giuliani as an opponent in 2008. It’s what would be called in ordnance a “target-rich environment”!

I do hope he gets past the primary. I see no one in the GOP field anywhere near him right now, except for Romney, and he is going to need even more packaging than Rudy.

Not too sure where the money stands right now, but I think the days of the GOP overpowering Dems in money raising are over. Without a massive advantage in monies for message delivery and control, GOP policies just do not get elected.

If they have to spend serious money in nation-wide markets with image and packaging to refine the public’s pereception of these candidates, they are not going to have the huge go-negative money that made such a difference in ’04.

Yessss…