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	<title>Comments on: Way To Go, Lapdog Media</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/</link>
	<description>Like Kryptonite To Stupid</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: midderpidge</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83687</link>
		<dc:creator>midderpidge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83687</guid>
		<description>According to Dugger, you'd just have the makings of the front row of a Lynyrd Skynyrd concert.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to Dugger, you&#8217;d just have the makings of the front row of a Lynyrd Skynyrd concert.</p>
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		<title>By: Duros62</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83686</link>
		<dc:creator>Duros62</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83686</guid>
		<description>By extrapolation, I take it to mean that if they find 3 hands and 4 feet and nothing else after a suicide bombing, it is fair to assume that at least 2 people were killed.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By extrapolation, I take it to mean that if they find 3 hands and 4 feet and nothing else after a suicide bombing, it is fair to assume that at least 2 people were killed.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: midderpidge</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83685</link>
		<dc:creator>midderpidge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83685</guid>
		<description>Aside from how stupid Dugger is, what have we established:

More Iraqis per year die under US occupation than under Hussein.

More Americans died in Iraq last year than the number of AMericans that died in Los Angeles County, despite a wide disparity in numbers of Americans.

Dugger still has some questions to answer:

Why were there so many unidentified bodies in the Baghdad morgue last year?

How many Iraqis would have been killed under Hussein over the last 4 years if the US didn't invade?

Now that your two favorite talking points have been demolished what will be next?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aside from how stupid Dugger is, what have we established:</p>
<p>More Iraqis per year die under US occupation than under Hussein.</p>
<p>More Americans died in Iraq last year than the number of AMericans that died in Los Angeles County, despite a wide disparity in numbers of Americans.</p>
<p>Dugger still has some questions to answer:</p>
<p>Why were there so many unidentified bodies in the Baghdad morgue last year?</p>
<p>How many Iraqis would have been killed under Hussein over the last 4 years if the US didn&#8217;t invade?</p>
<p>Now that your two favorite talking points have been demolished what will be next?</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83684</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 02:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83684</guid>
		<description>Ha! Maybe you can get a quote from "moderate," "middle of the road" Joe Lieberman while you're at it, Duggsy!

"Firstly, the survey appeared to be based on an extrapolation technique rather than a detailed body count."

Note the implication that the only valid methodology would be an actual body count. Lucky for them it's a war zone, and there's no way to actually do a body count, huh? What are the odds?!?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha! Maybe you can get a quote from &#8220;moderate,&#8221; &#8220;middle of the road&#8221; Joe Lieberman while you&#8217;re at it, Duggsy!</p>
<p>&#8220;Firstly, the survey appeared to be based on an extrapolation technique rather than a detailed body count.&#8221;</p>
<p>Note the implication that the only valid methodology would be an actual body count. Lucky for them it&#8217;s a war zone, and there&#8217;s no way to actually do a body count, huh? What are the odds?!?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: midderpidge</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83683</link>
		<dc:creator>midderpidge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83683</guid>
		<description>Keep trying, that one fell way short.  Maybe you can get the results of a poll of Welsh Fisherman to post new better totals.

The Prime Minister of Great Britain who links his legacy to the invasion of Iraq doesn't like the numbers?  Oh gosh.  Telling.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep trying, that one fell way short.  Maybe you can get the results of a poll of Welsh Fisherman to post new better totals.</p>
<p>The Prime Minister of Great Britain who links his legacy to the invasion of Iraq doesn&#8217;t like the numbers?  Oh gosh.  Telling.</p>
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		<title>By: Dugger</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83682</link>
		<dc:creator>Dugger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83682</guid>
		<description>
AO, WaPo, now the dastardly Brits:


“Asked if the Prime Minister was concerned about a survey published today suggesting that 100,000 Iraqi civilians had died as a result of the war in Iraq, the PMOS said that it was important to treat the figures with caution because there were a number of concerns and doubts about the methodology that had been used. Firstly, the survey appeared to be based on an extrapolation technique rather than a detailed body count. Our worries centred on the fact that the technique in question appeared to treat Iraq as if every area was one and the same. In terms of the level of conflict, that was definitely not the case. Secondly, the survey appeared to assume that bombing had taken place throughout Iraq. Again, that was not true. It had been focussed primarily on areas such as Fallujah. Consequently, we did not believe that extrapolation was an appropriate technique to use.”

More conspiracaes boys.  Better comfort each other or the ol' Bushey Man will get you.  How 'bout a great big group hug.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AO, WaPo, now the dastardly Brits:</p>
<p>“Asked if the Prime Minister was concerned about a survey published today suggesting that 100,000 Iraqi civilians had died as a result of the war in Iraq, the PMOS said that it was important to treat the figures with caution because there were a number of concerns and doubts about the methodology that had been used. Firstly, the survey appeared to be based on an extrapolation technique rather than a detailed body count. Our worries centred on the fact that the technique in question appeared to treat Iraq as if every area was one and the same. In terms of the level of conflict, that was definitely not the case. Secondly, the survey appeared to assume that bombing had taken place throughout Iraq. Again, that was not true. It had been focussed primarily on areas such as Fallujah. Consequently, we did not believe that extrapolation was an appropriate technique to use.”</p>
<p>More conspiracaes boys.  Better comfort each other or the ol&#8217; Bushey Man will get you.  How &#8217;bout a great big group hug.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83681</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83681</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Wilbur. Perhaps some wii tennis will take the edge off.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Wilbur. Perhaps some wii tennis will take the edge off.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83680</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83680</guid>
		<description>Wow, that's even worse, Midderpidge. Amazing. And yet, you know Dugger'll be back in a month, ranting about the "discredited" Lancet survey as if it's true. There is simply no evidence that can change that fanatic's mind.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that&#8217;s even worse, Midderpidge. Amazing. And yet, you know Dugger&#8217;ll be back in a month, ranting about the &#8220;discredited&#8221; Lancet survey as if it&#8217;s true. There is simply no evidence that can change that fanatic&#8217;s mind.</p>
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		<title>By: midderpidge</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83679</link>
		<dc:creator>midderpidge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83679</guid>
		<description>Oh my god.  I was wondering why Dugger didn't provide a link (as usual) so I searched up his article.  The median estimate of  9,890 Iraqi civilian casualties he put up in quotes and seems to base his math on is from a poll of American citizens, not mainstream non-paranoid sources as he claims.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my god.  I was wondering why Dugger didn&#8217;t provide a link (as usual) so I searched up his article.  The median estimate of  9,890 Iraqi civilian casualties he put up in quotes and seems to base his math on is from a poll of American citizens, not mainstream non-paranoid sources as he claims.</p>
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		<title>By: midderpidge</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83678</link>
		<dc:creator>midderpidge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83678</guid>
		<description>Two of his favorite talking points demolished in one thread.  Poor Dugger.  Now he has to bake some new troll-cakes.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two of his favorite talking points demolished in one thread.  Poor Dugger.  Now he has to bake some new troll-cakes.</p>
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		<title>By: Duros62</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83677</link>
		<dc:creator>Duros62</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83677</guid>
		<description>If symptoms persist, feel free to use all 3 options in succession. Repeat as needed.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If symptoms persist, feel free to use all 3 options in succession. Repeat as needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Wilbur</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83676</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilbur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83676</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Is there an actual ignore function, Wilbur? That would be sweet.&lt;/i&gt;

Easy, Dr. A.:  Every time you think you've got to beat your head against that wall of frozen manure, do one of the following instead:

1) Go find a loved one and give him/her/it a big hug.

2) Go pet a companion animal of your choice (dog, cat, ferret, iguana, guppy, boa constrictor)

3) Pour yourself two fingers of fine island single-malt, and enjoy it straight-up.

The urge will soon go away.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Is there an actual ignore function, Wilbur? That would be sweet.</i></p>
<p>Easy, Dr. A.:  Every time you think you&#8217;ve got to beat your head against that wall of frozen manure, do one of the following instead:</p>
<p>1) Go find a loved one and give him/her/it a big hug.</p>
<p>2) Go pet a companion animal of your choice (dog, cat, ferret, iguana, guppy, boa constrictor)</p>
<p>3) Pour yourself two fingers of fine island single-malt, and enjoy it straight-up.</p>
<p>The urge will soon go away.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83675</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83675</guid>
		<description>And once again, Dugger slurs the 2004 Lancet/2006 JHU studies as non-mainstream and paranoid without any logic or evidence.

Classic Scumbag Dugger.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And once again, Dugger slurs the 2004 Lancet/2006 JHU studies as non-mainstream and paranoid without any logic or evidence.</p>
<p>Classic Scumbag Dugger.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83674</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83674</guid>
		<description>Dugger's not assuming you think "everybody but Lancet is lying" because he's merely sloppy, Midder. It's because he is literally incapable of making a good-faith argument. The strawman is the only friend he has left.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dugger&#8217;s not assuming you think &#8220;everybody but Lancet is lying&#8221; because he&#8217;s merely sloppy, Midder. It&#8217;s because he is literally incapable of making a good-faith argument. The strawman is the only friend he has left.</p>
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		<title>By: midderpidge</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83673</link>
		<dc:creator>midderpidge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83673</guid>
		<description>Lying?  Who knows?  What you are dealing with is estimates because theree aren't many hard numbers.  Some of that is deliberate.  US forces deliberately understate civilian casualties and the IRaqi government has banned officials from releasing casualty figures.  Despite that, we have a few hard numbers.  16,000.  That is a hard number from the Baghdad morgue and does not even include all of its total, and indeed is only a fraction of the bodies from Baghdad.

16,000.  It's a hard number from 2006 and has to serve as a minimum.  So if the majority of your examples estimates are less than 16,000, we can safely conclude they are so badly off as to be worthless.

Example, we have a stack of 100 US currency bills.  We know they are all genuine US paper money currency.  We can't see all of them, but we can see the top bill.  The top bill is definitely a one hundred dollar bill, no question.  Now we ask 100 people to estimate how much money is in the stack, and show them the stack and tell them there are 100 US paper currency bills.  After surveying the 100 people the median estimate is $75.  From that we can conclude the people surveyed have no clue how to add or make an educated guess.  Just like your median estimate example.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lying?  Who knows?  What you are dealing with is estimates because theree aren&#8217;t many hard numbers.  Some of that is deliberate.  US forces deliberately understate civilian casualties and the IRaqi government has banned officials from releasing casualty figures.  Despite that, we have a few hard numbers.  16,000.  That is a hard number from the Baghdad morgue and does not even include all of its total, and indeed is only a fraction of the bodies from Baghdad.</p>
<p>16,000.  It&#8217;s a hard number from 2006 and has to serve as a minimum.  So if the majority of your examples estimates are less than 16,000, we can safely conclude they are so badly off as to be worthless.</p>
<p>Example, we have a stack of 100 US currency bills.  We know they are all genuine US paper money currency.  We can&#8217;t see all of them, but we can see the top bill.  The top bill is definitely a one hundred dollar bill, no question.  Now we ask 100 people to estimate how much money is in the stack, and show them the stack and tell them there are 100 US paper currency bills.  After surveying the 100 people the median estimate is $75.  From that we can conclude the people surveyed have no clue how to add or make an educated guess.  Just like your median estimate example.</p>
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		<title>By: Dugger</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83672</link>
		<dc:creator>Dugger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83672</guid>
		<description>Well, I will settle for you thinking everybody but Lancet is lying.

Mainstream, non paranoid sources indicate Saddam killed at roughly four times the current rate.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I will settle for you thinking everybody but Lancet is lying.</p>
<p>Mainstream, non paranoid sources indicate Saddam killed at roughly four times the current rate.</p>
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		<title>By: midderpidge</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83671</link>
		<dc:creator>midderpidge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83671</guid>
		<description>Furthermore, the median is so far off, deliberately bad estimates have to make up the majority of the data set.  Fact: the Baghdad morgue reported 16,000 unidentified dead bodies last year.  Therefore any tally under 16,000 is immediately suspect.  And since the Baghdad morgue admits that number does not account for many or most of the deaths in Baghdad, and number around 16,000 is immediately suspect.  Since the median is significantly below 16,000 (which makes up an unknown assumedly low percentage of the total) we can conclude that most of the estimates that median is based on are pure crap.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Furthermore, the median is so far off, deliberately bad estimates have to make up the majority of the data set.  Fact: the Baghdad morgue reported 16,000 unidentified dead bodies last year.  Therefore any tally under 16,000 is immediately suspect.  And since the Baghdad morgue admits that number does not account for many or most of the deaths in Baghdad, and number around 16,000 is immediately suspect.  Since the median is significantly below 16,000 (which makes up an unknown assumedly low percentage of the total) we can conclude that most of the estimates that median is based on are pure crap.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: midderpidge</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83670</link>
		<dc:creator>midderpidge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83670</guid>
		<description>And you'd be wrong.  Every lowball estimate is solely based on deaths that are &lt;i&gt;reported&lt;/i&gt;.  Most deaths aren't reported.  US death tallies are deliberately lowballed.  Look at the IBC number you tout.  IBC readily admits it does not account for most or many of the bodies, and that they can't based on their methodology.

If we applied the same methodology to your Saddam number, he would be responsible for about 500,000 simply because Iraq admits that is about how many died in the IRaq-Iran war.  The rest of the deaths wouldn't count because they weren't officially reported or tallied.

Damn, that was easy.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And you&#8217;d be wrong.  Every lowball estimate is solely based on deaths that are <i>reported</i>.  Most deaths aren&#8217;t reported.  US death tallies are deliberately lowballed.  Look at the IBC number you tout.  IBC readily admits it does not account for most or many of the bodies, and that they can&#8217;t based on their methodology.</p>
<p>If we applied the same methodology to your Saddam number, he would be responsible for about 500,000 simply because Iraq admits that is about how many died in the IRaq-Iran war.  The rest of the deaths wouldn&#8217;t count because they weren&#8217;t officially reported or tallied.</p>
<p>Damn, that was easy.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83669</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83669</guid>
		<description>Is there an actual ignore function, Wilbur? That would be sweet.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there an actual ignore function, Wilbur? That would be sweet.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/24/way-to-go-lapdog-media/#comment-83668</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6863#comment-83668</guid>
		<description>The AP did say that. But the AP is not twisting your arm into knowingly misrepresenting what they've said. It's your dishonesty that compels to you dishonor yourself in that way, Dugger. When will you begin to act like a man?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The AP did say that. But the AP is not twisting your arm into knowingly misrepresenting what they&#8217;ve said. It&#8217;s your dishonesty that compels to you dishonor yourself in that way, Dugger. When will you begin to act like a man?</p>
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