Actually, I don’t – because they’re talking about someone else.

But I have to admit I would distrust anyone who called themselves a Christian activist. Most of the churchy people I know who do any kind of outreach to the poor or work for peace or whatever, they usually describe themselves by the work rather than the religious aspect of it.

If you ask them why they do it, they may just say it is the moral thing to do, or they may say they feel called by Jesus to do it, but they tend to think it’s a bit showy and presumptuous to start off saying, “I’m a Christian activist.”

But that’s the tradition I was raised in; you sing love of God in church, but you do the work because the work must be done.

House and Senate races are not the “national stage.” Your “we won the popular vote” cheerleading is pointless. You know as well as anybody that Gore should have won handily in 2000. Instead of campaigning like Clinton, he chucked that winning strategy, bolted left and lost a good chunk of the middle. The Democrats only got worse four years later.

They’re 2 out of 7 since 1980. That’s not something to brag about.

Oliver, the fact is, Tim Kaine recognizes what faith means to people and instead of ignoring it as John Kerry did in 2004, he reached out to them and it helped him win an election in a state that Bush carried easily. Don’t sit there and attempt to tell me that Tim Kaine’s victory rested on his views regarding urban sprawl and traffic!

and it is fact the religious far right that is spitting in the face of Christianity, you did it in this very thread by claiming that progressive Christians aren’t worshipping the real god because they didn’t do it your way.

I did no such thing. There is no ‘my way’ when it comes to Christianity. I merely said that people like to pick and choose what they want to believe and the Bible quite frankly, doesn’t offer a choice. Neither did Jesus Christ. He didn’t say, “But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart…unless he’s just about to get divorced or the marriage just isn’t working anymore.”

That’s not a “religious far right” viewpoint, so give the petty insults a rest, ok?

Oh and that gaggle of little old black ladies from Atlanta you talked about? Probably far more conservative than me on their religious views. I don’t know why you think black churches would do wonders for the Democratic party when African-American Christians have stronger views on abortion and homosexuality than whites do.

If by continue to lose on the national stage you mean win the house and senate and the popular vote in 2 out of the 3 last presidential elections, thats a brand of losing I can tolerate without pandering to the least accepting segment of the population.

Tim Kaine is pro-life, but said he doesn’t believe Roe vs Wade should be overturned. However, he also said that he supports parental notification and is opposed to partial birth abortions. During his campaign he reached out to evangelicals and Christian conservatives, and it’s obvious that they didn’t buy into Kilgore’s predictions of doom and gloom.

To say that Kaine won because ’smart’ voters were busy making their choice based on sprawl and traffic is just absurd.

It’s not about ‘pandering’ Oliver. It’s about realizing that that a lot of people share the same issues and concerns and are willing to step across party lines to choose candidates that will do the best job. If you happen to think insulting them is the best bet, then get ready to see more defeat on the national stage.

I think Kaine is talking about unprovoked ad hominem attacks that are often thrown out by Democrats as red meat to their base. It’s counter-productive in that regard.

I just don’t see why some Democrats think its a good idea to piss certain people off instead of trying to draw them in.

Because thats what ends up happening.

“The second thing that Democrats have to do better on is not attacking the ‘religious right,’” he said. “I think that has been a standard bogeyman that Democrats have often used in campaigns, including campaigns in Virginia. If somebody advances an idea or position that’s wrong, then attack them for having a bad idea. But they are not wrong because they are religious.

“When Democrats kind of cavalierly attack the religious right or go after Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell, our candidates have sent the signal to a lot of religious people, ‘Well, I guess they are not interested in me.’ And I think this includes a lot of people who would fit very naturally within the Democratic Party.”

Kaine is 100% right on this. A person that watches The 700 Club doesn’t necessarily believe and agree with everything that comes out of Robertson’s mouth (or Falwell’s for that matter). But Democrats are prone to not just simply go after Robertson, they’ll blanket everybody and in doing so, turn off a considerable number of voters. Kaine didn’t do that, and in a state what Bush won easily, he wound up winning.

YOU GUYZ R H8RS!!1!! U R TEH SUCK!!1!ONE!!

Have a nice day

you are a hypocrite. liberals just HATE a different group of people. people and ideas that you HATE as well
fck your lying ilk.

have a nice day

Hell they don’t even do anything locally in many cases let alone nationally… I live in a majority black community outside Chicago. I literally have 7 churches within 2 blocks of my house, one of which could be considered a “mega” church. Yet the crime in this neighborhood (especially around my house) is off the charts!… I don’t see these churches doing anything but making money (usually to build a bigger church). What do you expect to see from these churches who can’t even do anything to keep their own backyards clean? The fact that you had to point to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to show anything “tangible” that the black church has contributed politically says a lot.

And when they do speak politically it is usually some crap against gays… Or some other white house talking point so that they can get their hands on some of that Faith-Based Initiatives money… If you ask me, from what I’ve seen, the black church is holding people back, not pushing them forward. Back then MLK and others encouraged us to fight for our rights. Now they just say pray on it and everything will be okay. GOD will handle everything for you. And if he doesn’t then he works in mysterious ways and it is his will that you are in the situation you are in. He will make a way. Just wait and keep praying.

Oliver, do you have any idea what an evangelical Christian is? Apparently from this statement, you don’t.

Exactly. Every body takes a bite at the buffet. It’s the asses who take their bite then castigate everyone else for not being real enough. I’d love for you to tell a gaggle of little old black ladies in church in Atlanta they aren’t worshipping the real God.

And who doesn’t do that?

As a militant fundamentalist agnostic, I find it funny* that so many people can claim to believe and revere the same book, yet have such a buffet-style approach to which parts of it are sacred and holy and undeniable, and which parts don’t apply to them.

* well, it would be funny if it weren’t so serious.

Christianity in America is shaking up into a four piece puzzle. Conservative Christians, Catholics, Mainline Christians and Black Christians.

Conservative Christians and Black Christians share a lot when it comes to theology and worship style, and very little when it comes to its application to real life. Mainline Christians and Black Christians are a lot when it comes to the application of Christianity to real life, and relatively little when it comes to issues of theology or worship style.

Catholics share a great deal with Mainline Christians when it comes to worship style, but are split between conservatives and mainline Christians on many social issues.

The leadership, ordained and lay, of the mainline Christian church shares almost all the values of the non-Christian left, although the pews are more conservative, especially those who attend regularly.

In politics, it is the stance of social issues that matters more than theology or worship style.

21% of self-described evangelical Christians voted for John Kerry in 2004. If you don’t think that’s a considerable number, then you’re whistling past the graveyard.

Tim Kaine didn’t win by appealing to southern evangelicals and southern evangelicals didn’t vote for Gov. Kaine (or Jim Webb).

You’re 100% wrong on the first part of that. Read here. I’ll let somebody else get the voting breakdown.

And Jay, it is intolerant, and it is wrong what many of these churches promote.

It isn’t ‘promotion.’

I say this being someone raised in a Christian household who while I may not be a churchgoer or strong believer, I still basically believe in the values and ideas espoused by Jesus. Like I wrote in the story and have before, people on the left have had religion for a long time, it just happens to be a little closer to the real thing than the mostly southern brand of evangelicalism sells to their flock.

The ‘real thing’ meaning they’d like to toss aside what it is they don’t like about the Bible and about things Jesus taught.