The Old Hotness
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Imagine if you will, a substantial group of regular churchgoing Christians. They are active in their community, they believe in God and Heaven and Hell. Their entire life is about living up to the Word of God, and when they vote that belief is a driving moral force in how their ballot is cast. These Christians are vital to their party, if they stayed home on election day there’s no way the party could win.
Surely these people are part of the “values voters” so often courted by the GOP.
Did I mention that they’re black. Because, you see, they’re Democrats. They are also the religious left nobody seems to talk about when things flare up in discussions about “the religious left” (And yes, the idea of these mythical Democrats who persecute the religious that nobody can ever name stinks to high heaven).
A conventional wisdom that took hold after the 2004 election and hasn’t been cast off yet is that Democrats lost because of “values voters”, aka right-wing Christians. Except that Kerry lost many women who were previously Democratic voters because he was perceived as weak on terror when terror trumped many of the more traditional issues that determine elections. But the conventional wisdom being what it is, caused people to panic and a cry went out across the land that said we needed to have “the religious left”.
Who is the American leader, in all of our history, who was most impactful at conjoining his religious beliefs and political action? It’s not Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell or any of the agents of intolerance on the right. It’s Martin Luther King. That is, the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. of the Ebenezer Baptist Church. I often imagine King and other leaders before and since in the black church (yes, including Sharpton and Jackson) saying “I’ve got your religious left right here”.
I think its great so many groups popped up espousing progressive religion, but I fear too many of them are in the mold of trying to appeal to conservative evangelicals – mostly southerners – who would vote for Satan before they would vote for a Democrat (I take pride in the fact that the bulk of haters vote GOP). Instead of liberals going to the existing religious left who pioneered political action and faith decades ago and saying “guide us”, people created brand new organizations that too often ain’t fooling anybody (If I hear anyone else say “we have values too” or any other empty platitude I’ll go postal) and aren’t – ironically – preaching to anyone.
The black churches of America aren’t as fashionable and sexy perhaps as these other new organizations, but they’ve been there, they’ve done the homework, and they’ve produced tangible results we see every day in our lives as Americans. If they die out or fade away as a political force, the Democratic party and liberalism is doomed. Ignoring them and what they’ve done is a travesty.
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The religious left
A conventional wisdom that took hold after the 2004 election and hasn’t been cast off yet is that Democrats lost because of “values voters”, aka right-wing Christians.
Just so we’re clear, this CW was the product of Democrats and liberals. If I remember correctly (and if I’m wrong, let me know) you were one of the ones echoing the “Jesusland” drivel.
I think what’s happening is that religious progressives (and I’m one of ‘em) are upset not at specific instances of anti-religious bigotry but at the operating assumption that “Christian” or “Religious” means “Republican,” if not in name then in thought or deed. Hell, I’m a Christian and when someone says, “so and so is a Christian activist,” I assume they’re a Republican.
It’s a frame that has been widely accepted on the right, never mind in the media, but I see the same thing in blog posts, comment threads, and conversations with friends. The result is that religious progressives feel distanced from their party and fellow activists, ignored by the media, and maybe more inclined to align with more conservative elements simply because they speak their language… which is stupid, since it’s the victory of style over substance. It’s the President saying “wonder working power” in the SOTU and then pissing on the social gospel.
That last part about language seems to be the important thing that we could take away from this – the need to look at the “languages” being spoken by secular and religious progressives and finding a way to meet on common ground. This back and forth right now is really depressing.
I think its great so many groups popped up espousing progressive religion, but I fear too many of them are in the mold of trying to appeal to conservative evangelicals – mostly southerners – who would vote for Satan before they would vote for a Democrat (I take pride in the fact that the bulk of haters vote GOP).
And then there’s this drivel. You start off with a careful analysis, bit it’s as if you feel some need to pull red meat for the masses out of your back pocket.
Consider the following states:
North Carolina
Louisiana
Arkansas
Oklahoma
Tennessee
Virginia
West Virginia
All southern states. All have Democratic Governors. Then there are the Democratic Senators and House members that represent the south.
This is why Democrats lose. They have the same mindset as you that the overwhelming majority of southern voters are nothing but a bunch of rednecks who are step away from donning a white hood and burning crosses. It’s the reason why Democrats thought they could win with a candidate (Kerry) who basically gave the south the finger, ignoring states like North Carolina and Georgia and focusing solely on Florida.
In addition, you have this distorted view that all evangelical Christians just buy into whatever Robertson or Falwell say….because they say it. The church I attend has about 800 people attend each week. Contrary to the notion that all we do is rail about homos and abortionists each week, we do things in the community that others do not.
For instance, we have a Single Moms Car Care thing we do every quarter. A local auto dealer was kind enough to allow us to use their bays to perform oil changes and things like tire rotations for single mothers. We provide free hair cuts for their children. Members of our congregation last year donated 6 cars (2 of them were bought brand new) to some of these single mothers. No strings attached. We have a food pantry that assists those with limited means. Our church provided money, clothes, shelter and other items to 4-5 families that were victims of Hurricane Katrina.
I could go on. The fact is, churches like ours are not alone in their willingness to give and help those in the community. At the same time however, you’ll walk into these churches and find a strong Bible-based message being preached each week. The same that you would dismiss as “intolerant” simply because they don’t hold the same views as you do on issues like gay rights and abortion.
In addition, many people in the South (and the churches I described) make up a large portion of what Democrats claim to support: working class people.
I remember when Howard Dean got into hot water with fellow Democrats when he said they should reach out to guys with “confederate flags on their pickup trucks.” Other Democrats blasted what he said, saying racists shouldn’t be pandered to. As is often the case with Dean, he used the wrong words but he was talking about those blue collar voters so many Democrats now think they can ignore. Of course, emboldened by wins this past November, Democrats will probably do more of the same.
You might want to try stepping out of the ivory tower.
Now that Jay has given us advice, I feel pretty safe in doing the opposite.
Why take advice from some who holds an ideology that includes hating the American ideal?
Why take advice from some who holds an ideology that includes hating the American ideal?
Thanks for proving my point.
Oh and perhaps you can enlighten everybody as to how exactly it is I “hate the American ideal”? I’m interested in knowing about myself what you apparently believe you know.
Jay, I specifically said conservative evangelicals. Southern conservatives may vote Democratic, but not the evangelicals in any considerable number.
I can’t speak to the other states specifically, but from my ivory tower in suburban Maryland I’m pretty intimate with Virginia. Tim Kaine didn’t win by appealing to southern evangelicals and southern evangelicals didn’t vote for Gov. Kaine (or Jim Webb). Moderate and conservatives voted for them, not because they were going to save all those aborted babies but because they appealed to normal middle class values without coming across as smelly hippie liberals from the big city. They’re the same people who voted for Heath Shuler, Bill Clinton, etc.
And Jay, it is intolerant, and it is wrong what many of these churches promote. I say this being someone raised in a Christian household who while I may not be a churchgoer or strong believer, I still basically believe in the values and ideas espoused by Jesus. Like I wrote in the story and have before, people on the left have had religion for a long time, it just happens to be a little closer to the real thing than the mostly southern brand of evangelicalism sells to their flock.
Jay, I specifically said conservative evangelicals. Southern conservatives may vote Democratic, but not the evangelicals in any considerable number.
21% of self-described evangelical Christians voted for John Kerry in 2004. If you don’t think that’s a considerable number, then you’re whistling past the graveyard.
Tim Kaine didn’t win by appealing to southern evangelicals and southern evangelicals didn’t vote for Gov. Kaine (or Jim Webb).
You’re 100% wrong on the first part of that. Read here. I’ll let somebody else get the voting breakdown.
And Jay, it is intolerant, and it is wrong what many of these churches promote.
It isn’t ‘promotion.’
I say this being someone raised in a Christian household who while I may not be a churchgoer or strong believer, I still basically believe in the values and ideas espoused by Jesus. Like I wrote in the story and have before, people on the left have had religion for a long time, it just happens to be a little closer to the real thing than the mostly southern brand of evangelicalism sells to their flock.
The ‘real thing’ meaning they’d like to toss aside what it is they don’t like about the Bible and about things Jesus taught.
A fair observation. Blacks in the U.S. are more likely to be Christians than whites.
Christianity in America is shaking up into a four piece puzzle. Conservative Christians, Catholics, Mainline Christians and Black Christians.
Conservative Christians and Black Christians share a lot when it comes to theology and worship style, and very little when it comes to its application to real life. Mainline Christians and Black Christians are a lot when it comes to the application of Christianity to real life, and relatively little when it comes to issues of theology or worship style.
Catholics share a great deal with Mainline Christians when it comes to worship style, but are split between conservatives and mainline Christians on many social issues.
The leadership, ordained and lay, of the mainline Christian church shares almost all the values of the non-Christian left, although the pews are more conservative, especially those who attend regularly.
In politics, it is the stance of social issues that matters more than theology or worship style.
The ‘real thing’ meaning they’d like to toss aside what it is they don’t like about the Bible and about things Jesus taught.
And who doesn’t do that?
As a militant fundamentalist agnostic, I find it funny* that so many people can claim to believe and revere the same book, yet have such a buffet-style approach to which parts of it are sacred and holy and undeniable, and which parts don’t apply to them.
* well, it would be funny if it weren’t so serious.
Like I said, Kaine attracted religious conservatives – not evangelicals. You guys don’t own all of religion and certainly not all of Christianity.
Exactly. Every body takes a bite at the buffet. It’s the asses who take their bite then castigate everyone else for not being real enough. I’d love for you to tell a gaggle of little old black ladies in church in Atlanta they aren’t worshipping the real God.
OW, I really liked your post b/c it crystallizes something I’ve kinda suspected for a while: the emphasis of a lot of black churches on compassion and on Christianity as the religion bonding a suffering but loving people is something that religious liberals can really run with. As a Catholic, although my church now seems more ashamed of its more social gospel-ish past, I think that what Jesus Christ gave us is a message of love that we need to share and make REAL for as many people as we can. Better that message than telling whole classes of people that they’re less than human, or not as human as us “good” Christians.
Like I said, Kaine attracted religious conservatives – not evangelicals. You guys don’t own all of religion and certainly not all of Christianity.
Oliver, do you have any idea what an evangelical Christian is? Apparently from this statement, you don’t.
I think the point of this post was to say that we should use the Black Church as some kind of a political force or for some political leadership. As a black man I do not see that happening anytime soon. They have already died out as a serious political force.
Hell they don’t even do anything locally in many cases let alone nationally… I live in a majority black community outside Chicago. I literally have 7 churches within 2 blocks of my house, one of which could be considered a “mega” church. Yet the crime in this neighborhood (especially around my house) is off the charts!… I don’t see these churches doing anything but making money (usually to build a bigger church). What do you expect to see from these churches who can’t even do anything to keep their own backyards clean? The fact that you had to point to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to show anything “tangible” that the black church has contributed politically says a lot.
And when they do speak politically it is usually some crap against gays… Or some other white house talking point so that they can get their hands on some of that Faith-Based Initiatives money… If you ask me, from what I’ve seen, the black church is holding people back, not pushing them forward. Back then MLK and others encouraged us to fight for our rights. Now they just say pray on it and everything will be okay. GOD will handle everything for you. And if he doesn’t then he works in mysterious ways and it is his will that you are in the situation you are in. He will make a way. Just wait and keep praying.
first time at your blog. I enjoyed this post. I agree with you that the Democrats don’t even get that they have Progressive Christian Left. That they have always had a Progressive Christian Left, but they don’t want to give them the respect they deserve. They want to minimize their religion and the importance of religion in their lives. You can see this routinely on some of the more popular progressive blogs. The attack on Jim Wallis on MyDD yesterday is a perfect example, IMO.
You take pride that most haters vote GOP.. BUt.. liberals HATE conservatives as well as a large number of christians. Making them haters.
you are a hypocrite. liberals just HATE a different group of people. people and ideas that you HATE as well
fck your lying ilk.
have a nice day
Thanks for that civility, Kent. That made me smile.
YOU GUYZ R H8RS!!1!! U R TEH SUCK!!1!ONE!!
Have a nice day
Going back to that article I linked to, here is an important passage:
“The second thing that Democrats have to do better on is not attacking the ‘religious right,’” he said. “I think that has been a standard bogeyman that Democrats have often used in campaigns, including campaigns in Virginia. If somebody advances an idea or position that’s wrong, then attack them for having a bad idea. But they are not wrong because they are religious.
“When Democrats kind of cavalierly attack the religious right or go after Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell, our candidates have sent the signal to a lot of religious people, ‘Well, I guess they are not interested in me.’ And I think this includes a lot of people who would fit very naturally within the Democratic Party.”
Kaine is 100% right on this. A person that watches The 700 Club doesn’t necessarily believe and agree with everything that comes out of Robertson’s mouth (or Falwell’s for that matter). But Democrats are prone to not just simply go after Robertson, they’ll blanket everybody and in doing so, turn off a considerable number of voters. Kaine didn’t do that, and in a state what Bush won easily, he wound up winning.
So, Jay, how does one attack someone like Falwell or Roberston for being wrong, without being perceived as attack their religion?
Because thats what ends up happening.
Except Kaine’s opponent was exactly the product of the religious far right. Jerry Kilgore went on ad nauseum about how Tim Kaine was gonna let murderers run free, raise taxes and abort babies. But Virginians are getting smarter than that. They cared more about the freaking traffic and sprawl. Ditto for Webb, who did not pander to the religious far right who supported Allen, but instead focused on the war started by our conservative evangelical president. The religious far right’s loudest voices swear that they are Christianity. But they aren’t, thank God.
Duros, when Robertson or Falwell open their traps and say something that deserves derision, they get it and nobody says, “Oh, my religion is being attacked.”
I think Kaine is talking about unprovoked ad hominem attacks that are often thrown out by Democrats as red meat to their base. It’s counter-productive in that regard.
I just don’t see why some Democrats think its a good idea to piss certain people off instead of trying to draw them in.
Oliver, if you don’t want to see the obvious and if other Democrats think like you, you’ll continue to lose on the national stage.
Tim Kaine is pro-life, but said he doesn’t believe Roe vs Wade should be overturned. However, he also said that he supports parental notification and is opposed to partial birth abortions. During his campaign he reached out to evangelicals and Christian conservatives, and it’s obvious that they didn’t buy into Kilgore’s predictions of doom and gloom.
To say that Kaine won because ‘smart’ voters were busy making their choice based on sprawl and traffic is just absurd.
It’s not about ‘pandering’ Oliver. It’s about realizing that that a lot of people share the same issues and concerns and are willing to step across party lines to choose candidates that will do the best job. If you happen to think insulting them is the best bet, then get ready to see more defeat on the national stage.
More voters voted for Kaine in VA because of sprawl and traffic, that’s just a fact Jay. It’s a HUGE issue in Virginia, whereas abortion, etc. don’t come up much in the governor’s office (and I happen to agree a lot with Kaine on those social issues, yet I’m not on the religious right – just like a lot of Virginians). I’m not insulting people’s faith, and it is fact the religious far right that is spitting in the face of Christianity, you did it in this very thread by claiming that progressive Christians aren’t worshipping the real god because they didn’t do it your way.
If by continue to lose on the national stage you mean win the house and senate and the popular vote in 2 out of the 3 last presidential elections, thats a brand of losing I can tolerate without pandering to the least accepting segment of the population.
More voters voted for Kaine in VA because of sprawl and traffic, that’s just a fact Jay.
Oliver, the fact is, Tim Kaine recognizes what faith means to people and instead of ignoring it as John Kerry did in 2004, he reached out to them and it helped him win an election in a state that Bush carried easily. Don’t sit there and attempt to tell me that Tim Kaine’s victory rested on his views regarding urban sprawl and traffic!
and it is fact the religious far right that is spitting in the face of Christianity, you did it in this very thread by claiming that progressive Christians aren’t worshipping the real god because they didn’t do it your way.
I did no such thing. There is no ‘my way’ when it comes to Christianity. I merely said that people like to pick and choose what they want to believe and the Bible quite frankly, doesn’t offer a choice. Neither did Jesus Christ. He didn’t say, “But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart…unless he’s just about to get divorced or the marriage just isn’t working anymore.”
That’s not a “religious far right” viewpoint, so give the petty insults a rest, ok?
Oh and that gaggle of little old black ladies from Atlanta you talked about? Probably far more conservative than me on their religious views. I don’t know why you think black churches would do wonders for the Democratic party when African-American Christians have stronger views on abortion and homosexuality than whites do.
If by continue to lose on the national stage you mean win the house and senate and the popular vote in 2 out of the 3 last presidential elections, thats a brand of losing I can tolerate without pandering to the least accepting segment of the population.
House and Senate races are not the “national stage.” Your “we won the popular vote” cheerleading is pointless. You know as well as anybody that Gore should have won handily in 2000. Instead of campaigning like Clinton, he chucked that winning strategy, bolted left and lost a good chunk of the middle. The Democrats only got worse four years later.
They’re 2 out of 7 since 1980. That’s not something to brag about.
Hell, I’m a Christian and when someone says, “so and so is a Christian activist,” I assume they’re a Republican.
Actually, I don’t – because they’re talking about someone else.
But I have to admit I would distrust anyone who called themselves a Christian activist. Most of the churchy people I know who do any kind of outreach to the poor or work for peace or whatever, they usually describe themselves by the work rather than the religious aspect of it.
If you ask them why they do it, they may just say it is the moral thing to do, or they may say they feel called by Jesus to do it, but they tend to think it’s a bit showy and presumptuous to start off saying, “I’m a Christian activist.”
But that’s the tradition I was raised in; you sing love of God in church, but you do the work because the work must be done.
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