I raised the Chelsea Clinton point to show you just how absurd, how indecent, how WRONG it is to inflict punishment on children for the “sins” of their parents. And make no mistake about it — what you’re talking about is punishment, because you’re depriving them of their freedom to choose how they live their lives and instead making them proxies for their parents. You’re denying them their freedom, their self-identity, their very individuality and making them extensions of the policy-makers you loathe so much. And if you can’t grasp the fundamental wrongness of that, I don’t know what to say.

On the Limbaugh matter… a few corrections. He was NEVER a “conservative hero” BECAUSE of his attack, but REGARDLESS of it. He lost some credibility with some of his supporters, others ignored it, but virtually no one lauded him for it.

I said I “forgave” him. The Clintons did so long ago, but I kept the grudge. It was his reaching out to Ed Morrissey on a purely personal basis that let me get over that, and see he might be a decent guy nowadays. That he might not be quite the same guy who called her a dog on national television — which I saw, by the way, and stopped watching/listening to him that instant.

But I’ll never be a fan of his. Never be a supporter. Never a defender. But I no longer despise him.

Oh, and if you’re wondering just what he did that so impressed me… http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/007236.php

It was a class act by someone I thought had no class.

Oh, and Oliver, I dunno why I’m playing your little game, but a few questions re: Chelsea Clinton’s planned deployment:

1) What vital US interest was served there?

2) Why are they still there?

3) When will they be able to leave?

J.

That you have forgiven Limbaugh means nothing to me. He called their daughter a dog and is a conservative hero for it. That I continue to be as hardline as the right in these fights drives you guys crazy – you expect me to fold like so many other liberals do.

If Chelsea had been of military age at the time of those conflicts, it would be a viable topic of conversation

Oliver admits that Chelsea should have joined the military!

Chelsea was born in Februrary 1980.

When did we start military action in the Balkans?

Oh, yeah…AFTER Chelsea was 18.

OW, do you ever get your facts straight before you post?

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said I lost all respect I ever had for Limbaugh the instant that happened, and how I carried a grudge over that longer than the Clintons. In fact, it was only in the past year or so that I said Limbaugh had redeemed himself for that deed with a single display of a very courageous, selfless, generous, thoughtful act, and I could finally put the Chelsea/dog incident to rest.

But while we’re on the subject of my being wrong and apologizing, I am sorry that I thought an appeal to your decency would have the slightest shred of effect on you and your lackeys. That you actually might have a sense of shame. I should have known that the instant I made that case, I was dooming it.

But if you want to play your little game, might I point out that Chelsea Clinton is not much older than the Bush twins, and we STILL have troops in the Balkans? You remember, when they first went there, Clinton promised us that his “exit strategy” would have them home by Christmas. How many Christmases have passed since then?

I’m just playing devil’s advocate here. I’m just applying your principles to the prior administration (and those stupid enough to be their child). I have no problems with Chelsea living her live however she sees fit; she owes none of us nothing.

I don’t know your religious beliefs, Oliver (I’m an agnostic myself), but there’s a Biblical stricture against punishing the child for the sins of the father. There’s also a Constitutional ban on “corruption of the blood,” which means that you can’t punish children for the crimes of the parents. I guess neither of those principles mean much to you.

J.

And I think you, of all people, who has been called out by me and others for the factual inaccuracies of your allegations but who never corrects them is the last person who should be holding himself up as the bearer of “real facts”. LOL.

Then again, my dad’s not a habitual liar, and I respect him. I realize not every family’s like mine.

God, I feel dirty just typing this.

To use the old elementary school saying, Oliver, “pick on someone your own size.”

FYI, Jenna Bush spent a year as a teacher in a DC charter school, and is now a UNICEF intern in Panama. Barbara has been working with AIDS patients in several African countries. Meanwhile, Chelsea Clinton is pulling down six-plus figures working for a hedge fund company.

Amazing what one can discover when one actually decides to find out the real facts, and not just engage in what can only be charitably be called “bullying.”

J.

1) We send Chelsea Clinton off to the Balkans or Somalia.

2) We shut the fuck up about the children of politicians who have never run for office and never done anything to deserve public scorn and ridicule other than “choose” who their parents were.

I vote for #2, myself. Attacking people through their children is one of the most chickenshit things around.

J.

I’m also glad not to be in his shoes, as I feel much of the war has been very poorly executed.

I also think that Jenna and not-Jenna’s behavior in this is a) understandable, and b) completely shameful to the Preznit.

Mary Cheney is also eligible (though she is now pregnant.)

“Dad, look at the pretty birdie!”