You are truly an idiot. The first line from Oliver’s post:

The Bush administration tries yet again to realign reality in order to match up with their propaganda.

Of course you also have to totally overlook that Oliver is quoting Pace approvingly, Pace, who also happens to be a part of the military and a much higher ranked member of the military at that.

You also still have to overlook that Bush himself has repudiated what the military briefers said on Sunday. Bush said he did not know whether the highest levels of the Iranian government were involded. But Dugger, the briefers said that they knew and had evidence that the highest levels of the Iranian government were wrong.

Face it. This administration has used the defense department’s resources to distort intelligence in the past to make their case for war. Here you have a situation where unidentified military briefers made claims that no one, not the Joint Chief of Staff or the President is now willing to back up or confirm.

Why do you think that is Dugger? Assuming you can think at all.

In your dreams. Those were military briefers Sunday that OW thinks are making up a case for war. He is impugning them.

You’re an absolute asshat. If you re-read Oliver’s original post you will see that he is not impugning the integrity of the military, he is impugning the integrity of the Bush administration which has a recent history of distorting intelligence to promote a war it wanted to have.

Second, if you have been paying any attnetion at all you will note that the report by defense department briefers on Sunday that “shipments of weapons and ammunition to Iraq’s Shiite militias were being directed at the highest levels of the Iranian government” has been widely contradicted not only by Pace but now, as of yesterday, by the president
himselfhimself, who said that “he said he did not know whether Iran’s highest officials had directed the attacks.”

That directly contradicts what his own press secretary said just days before when he implied that the Iranian government knew and approved of the shipments.

Let me just quote from the article linked to above:

A senior Defense analyst said at a briefing in Baghdad over the weekend that the effort was being directed “from the highest levels of the Iranian government.” But Gen. Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, offered a contradictory account this week, telling The Associated Press that while some bomb materials were made in Iran, “that does not translate that the Iranian government, per se, for sure, is directly involved in doing this.”

Now according to your assessment, Pace is indicting the US military. You wanna stand by that?

This administration has a track record of overstating its case — uranium from Niger, anyone? — and then backing away from those overstatements even as asshat morons continue to spread them around the blogs and the mainstream media.

Did you see the reporting that CNN did after the Sunday briefing? It was
insane.

In my mind, the only thing that forced the administration to reverse course this time and start backing away from the claims made on Sunday were Pace’s comments on Monday.

And Side A is not being as limited in its claims as you suggest. Dugger is suggesting that PAce did not contradict what the briefers said on Sunday, attempting to have his cake and eat it too, much like the administration. He has, further up the thread, advocated a military response to that “evidence” even as different people high up in our own government are contradicting one another.

Which brings us to your food for thought. Why don’t we take one thing at a time, hey, big fella?

With the current media and this administration, “responses” and “solutions” have a way of outstripping reality rather quickly. Why don’t we get the evidence first this time round and then start talking about a response.

The current debate should be about what we can prove. Not what we should did if we ever could prove anything. You see how the later sort of clouds the issue?

One side seems to want to use what they see as a pattern of behavior to indict Iran.

The other side wants to use what they see as a pattern of behavior to indict….the US military!

Side A has circumstantial evidence that Iran is supplying weapons to the Iraqi insurgency — but not enough to conclusively say that the Iranian government is orchestrating it.

Side B says that the military has lied in the past and, thus, must be lying now as well — although they also can’t say conclusively that the US military is lying.

Genuinely weird stuff.

The big question to those on Side B: you say that there’s no justification for any action against Iran because the evidence isn’t conclusive.

Fair enough. But what if it becomes conclusive? What would your suggested course of action be then?

Food for thought.

No Dugger he wouldn’t have. Because he knows there’s no fucking evidence, as per Pace, proving that the Iranian government is involved. So what does he do? He dances the dance and hopes the press will bite.

“All I can say is that the Mullahs know all and see all.” wink wink.

You’re a total idiot.

Classic. Dugger up against the wall (one he built himself through his own idiocy) and now he shifts topics to some other headache causing lunacy that has seized his brain.

“Iraq must be going well because less people have died than in World War II,” or some such nonsense.

What a moron.

Pace said, the next day, that he has seen ZERO EVIDENCE, to indicate that the Iranian government knows anything about weapons going to Iraq.

So on one hand you have unidentified people claiming government responsibility without providing any proof and other you have the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff saying he has seen no evidence of the Iranian government’s involvement period.

Add to this Tony Snow’s suggestion, that wink, wink, nudge, nudge, we all know how the Iranian government works, and you have someone trying to spin shit into gold, or, at least, another war, and it ain’t Pace.

I’ve been wrong many times and admit it. Here, I’m right. And I notice you still avoid addressing WW II casualties verus Iraq. I’m not surprised. There is no good answer for you.

“asserted with utmost confidence the highest levels of the Iranian government were involved in smuggling weapons to Iraq’

Whereas USA Today said the same people said, same day:

“Later, one of the officials, an intelligence analyst, said it would be impossible to find a “smoking gun” conclusively proving Iranian government involvement.”

Waste deep in the big muddy, amigo. I think the answer is to further out.

And Snow did not say the government was involved - no matter how many time syou say otherwise. If he wanted to say that he would have said it - pure and simple. His remarks suggests he wouldn’t be surprised if they were involved.

You’ve lost this one. The record is right in front of you. You are having to pretend people are saying things.

Let point out this specific example of your bullshit spin. Dugger, Snow was not inferring that it is “feasible” the Iranian government is involved, he’s saying they ARE in FACT involved. Here’s what he said:

“Let me put it this way,” he said. “There’s not a whole lot of freelancing in the Iranian government, especially when it comes to something like that.”

Snow’s a hack for not saying directly what he thinks but your a hack for suggesting that he’s only raising the possibility. He isn’t. He wants to plant the suggestion that Iran is actually doing what the administration says it is doing. As per Pace, again, there is no evidence that this is the case.

Dugger, ever heard of circumstantial or hearsay evidence? It ain’t “smoking gun” evidence. The briefers on Sunday had nothing concrete but they nevertheless asserted with utmost confidence the highest levels of the Iranian government were involved in smuggling weapons to Iraq. They then turned around and told reporters they could should not expect “smoking gun” evidence of their assertion, just know that it’s true.

Pace’s comments totally contradict that assertion and totally contradict the comment made by Snow who was clearly suggesting that the Iranian government knows and approves of the weapons smuggling.

As per Pace, there is no evidence that the Iranian government is involved in anything nefarious inside Iraq.

Continuing to suggest that Pace, Snow and the briefers are all in accord is ludicrous wingnuttery at its finest.