I am saying, that Bush presented false, dated, dubious, or misleading data to make his argument that Hussein had WMDs and to get the war that he wanted from the day he entered the white house.

No one should have voted for that resolution. The Republican Majority Leader said that voting for that resolution was a horrible mistake and that he let his party and country down by letting it come to a vote.

Resolution aside, it achieved what Bush claimed was necessary: forcing Hussein into compliance. Inspectors were on the ground, they showed all US leads to be garbage, and Bush still chose to go to war. There were no WMDs, Bush has no credibility, Bush fucked the war up failed to plan for the aftermath, failed to adapt, and enacted policies like torture that have made Iraq into an unwinnable situation for this country, as well as flushing the credibility and moral high ground of the nation down the toilet.

And lastly, quoting someone who says there is evidence from 4 years ago or however old that quote was, is not providing a list of Bush Administration promoted and presented claims that turned out to be true.

I seem to recall armageddon aluminum tubes, vacuum cleaner engines of destruction, and ice cream trucks of doom. THere was the forged paper Yellow Cake from Hell. And on and on and on. Tell us the claims that were actually true. “We know where the weapons are”, and MUSHROOM CLOUDS!!!!

And is your argument really that Democrats aren’t accountable for their votes – Bush is????????

Second, what was the source of the “unmistakeable evidence”. I would guess Bush.

Duros, Did you want me to verify Dem or Rep claims. There are tons of both.

“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years … We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.”
-Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

My recollection is that Clarke said he did. I’ll have to research.

Ahhhhh, the good ‘ol days when pedugger was rendered speechless for weeks.

where does the buck stop?

Tune in for as many more Novembers as it takes you to figure it out.

Talk about nutjob Conspiracy Paranoia.

You are aware, right, that Bush critic Clarke was the one who personally authorized the Saudi departure. Please say you know that and you don’t believe Bush was helping 9-11 plotters or enablers.

O’T

Recycling old Mikey Moore paranoia:

“In December 2004, Turki was awarded libel damages from Paris Match for its claims that he was connected to the attacks. In 2005, a US federal judge ruled that Saudi officials including Turki were immune from the lawsuit. Turki has severely criticized al-Qaeda, calling it an “evil cult.”

He left his position as General Intelligence Directorate for Saudi Arabia on September days before September 11th and was quoted suggesting that September 11th was an Israeli plot within days of the attack.

Nonetheless, this did not prevent him from becoming the Saudi ambassador to the U.S. between 2005 and 2006.

There is a definite double standard for Saudi’s. This guy has more connections to Al Queda than half the Afghani farmers (handed over by warlords for $) now rotting in Guantanamo.

Agreed, but

it would have been nice to have asked them (The Saudi’s flown home on 9/12 and 9/13) what they knew before flying them home… while the rest of us were stuck at the nearest airport for 3 days.

So, yes Dugger, in your brave new america being the relative of someone suspected of mass murder should actually gets you a free pass? or only if you are Saudi?

I’m not ready to go into Iran, guns blazing. Only if hard intel tells us they are nuke ready. And then surgical – not Iraq III.
The Lebanon reference merely refers to the compelte lack of government control over private citizens or private citizen groups. The same thing seems to be happening in Pakistan to a lesser extent. The Saudi ‘dictatorship’ is completely different from the classic, pervasive totalitarian dictatorship that controls every aspect of life.So I question whether the Saudis control all of their rich princes and what they do with their money.

And nimmer, (as I have said before) I probably would not have invaded Iraq in the first place. My positions are based on the reality of our being there. And I refuse to ignore the larger perspective of the issue: that probably the country is better off long term. I do question if its worth the price we have paid and are paying (I don’t know).

I don’t see too many people here talking realistically about they would do about Saudi or even Iraq. Do you acknowledge the consequences of just quitting in Iraq (I know you may think we better off doing that, but do you see the negatives?) How do we handle Saudi – considering our economic posture in this country and the straegic importance of our Saudi bases? Whats the answer today? Not ten years from now. Gonna ay ’screw’ the Saudis cut relkations and do withiout the oil. Maybe we get Jimmy Carter -like unemployment. That OK? Hint” this is why mainstream Democratic politicians aren’t out there bragging about taking down the Saudis.

Do you mean The Lebanon?

Why is Typepad dragging its ass across the carpet?

Funny how you’re more nuanced about the Saudis than the Iraqis.

Very defensive on rooth’s behalf. I merely asked if he/she and an independent verification of the assertion. I buy it as his/her opinion, not as certified, genuine fact. Do you have a source, yourself, for the assertion?

duros,

My mind is open to Saudi malfeasance. I just need to see it documented and outside of a heated domestic political context involving Bush and Republicans. My take is that the Saudi government would like to be our allies (hence the bases, etc) but that there is a strong grass roots level anti-US, religious oriented hatred of the US in certain circles. Seems to me that the charges of Saudi ‘evil’ that I ahve heard are really more of a nature, truly, of why did the Saudi government let their citizens do this – rather than the Saudis did this. So, the degree of freedom of and Saudi government control over individual Saudis is the question. Seems to me than at many eastern and mid eastern countries have trouble controlling the actions of their citizens. Many could be potential ‘Lebanons’.