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	<title>Comments on: Make It Stop</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/</link>
	<description>Like Kryptonite To Stupid</description>
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		<title>By: Thad</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84848</link>
		<dc:creator>Thad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 03:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84848</guid>
		<description>Hang on, I&#039;ve got one.

Yoshitaka Amano.

He&#039;s a manga artist whose work doesn&#039;t look like any other manga artist&#039;s.  In fact, it&#039;s funny you mention Sandman, because he illustrated a Sandman picture-book (prose) a few years back.

I&#039;m willing to grant that he&#039;s the exception and not the rule, but still, as I noted in my previous post, ten years ago everybody in western comics drew like Jim Lee.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hang on, I&#8217;ve got one.</p>
<p>Yoshitaka Amano.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s a manga artist whose work doesn&#8217;t look like any other manga artist&#8217;s.  In fact, it&#8217;s funny you mention Sandman, because he illustrated a Sandman picture-book (prose) a few years back.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m willing to grant that he&#8217;s the exception and not the rule, but still, as I noted in my previous post, ten years ago everybody in western comics drew like Jim Lee.</p>
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		<title>By: Thad</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84847</link>
		<dc:creator>Thad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84847</guid>
		<description>(I&#039;ve tried to post this several times and gotten errors from TypePad; hopefully you don&#039;t get multiple copies.)

Arc:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Think of all the female superheroes Jim Lee has drawn. In terms of actual facial variation, not hair or costumes or skin colour, there is none.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Thanks, my point exactly.  I&#039;m no fan of Jim Lee and I think he was largely responsible for the uniformity of &#039;90&#039;s comic art (not exactly his fault he was so widely imitated, but still).  All I&#039;ve ever seen him draw is musclebound men and big-tittied women; change their hairstyles and costumes and they&#039;re basically identical.

My point is, you see a lot of dross and uniformity in Western comics and cartoons, too; I&#039;d say that quality is the exception rather than the rule no matter which side of the Pacific you&#039;re on.  Sure, for every Spirited Away there are a dozen Dragon Balls (and don&#039;t get me wrong, I like Toriyama, but I really can&#039;t think of a better example of simplistic anime off the top of my head), but it&#039;s also fair to note that for every All-Star Superman, there&#039;s...well, anything with Rob Liefeld&#039;s name attached to it.

I&#039;m not generally big on the whole &quot;give a manga look to western comics&quot; thing -- that&#039;s another &#039;90&#039;s trend that I&#039;m glad to see declining in prevalence.  That&#039;s pretty much why I never picked up Ultimate Spider-Man -- I love Bagley&#039;s work ordinarily, but I just couldn&#039;t stand Spidey&#039;s proportions in that version, and I&#039;ve never liked the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pvponline.com/article/2341/Fri-Apr-29&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;huge eyes&lt;/a&gt; (which we can largely thank MacFarlane for).

On the other hand, I DID like the Teen Titans toon -- though really what I liked about it was the Bruce Timm influence; I rolled my eyes every time they grew giant heads and ^_^ facial expressions.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(I&#8217;ve tried to post this several times and gotten errors from TypePad; hopefully you don&#8217;t get multiple copies.)</p>
<p>Arc:</p>
<blockquote><p>Think of all the female superheroes Jim Lee has drawn. In terms of actual facial variation, not hair or costumes or skin colour, there is none.</p></blockquote>
<p>Thanks, my point exactly.  I&#8217;m no fan of Jim Lee and I think he was largely responsible for the uniformity of &#8217;90&#8242;s comic art (not exactly his fault he was so widely imitated, but still).  All I&#8217;ve ever seen him draw is musclebound men and big-tittied women; change their hairstyles and costumes and they&#8217;re basically identical.</p>
<p>My point is, you see a lot of dross and uniformity in Western comics and cartoons, too; I&#8217;d say that quality is the exception rather than the rule no matter which side of the Pacific you&#8217;re on.  Sure, for every Spirited Away there are a dozen Dragon Balls (and don&#8217;t get me wrong, I like Toriyama, but I really can&#8217;t think of a better example of simplistic anime off the top of my head), but it&#8217;s also fair to note that for every All-Star Superman, there&#8217;s&#8230;well, anything with Rob Liefeld&#8217;s name attached to it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not generally big on the whole &#8220;give a manga look to western comics&#8221; thing &#8212; that&#8217;s another &#8217;90&#8242;s trend that I&#8217;m glad to see declining in prevalence.  That&#8217;s pretty much why I never picked up Ultimate Spider-Man &#8212; I love Bagley&#8217;s work ordinarily, but I just couldn&#8217;t stand Spidey&#8217;s proportions in that version, and I&#8217;ve never liked the <a href="http://www.pvponline.com/article/2341/Fri-Apr-29" rel="nofollow">huge eyes</a> (which we can largely thank MacFarlane for).</p>
<p>On the other hand, I DID like the Teen Titans toon &#8212; though really what I liked about it was the Bruce Timm influence; I rolled my eyes every time they grew giant heads and ^_^ facial expressions.</p>
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		<title>By: jimmmm</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84846</link>
		<dc:creator>jimmmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84846</guid>
		<description>It ALL looks like fucking Trixie from Speed Racer.

Fuck Manga.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It ALL looks like fucking Trixie from Speed Racer.</p>
<p>Fuck Manga.</p>
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		<title>By: ArC</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84845</link>
		<dc:creator>ArC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84845</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;you couldn&#039;t accuse their work of having the uniformity of manga.&lt;/i&gt;

Probably because it&#039;s in color.

Think of all the female superheroes Jim Lee has drawn.  In terms of actual facial variation, not hair or costumes or skin colour, there is none.

&lt;i&gt; I don&#039;t think you can say with a straight face that Batman  and Sandman have the sameness that Pokemon  and Spirited Away do.&lt;/i&gt;

Miyazaki&#039;s character designs are pretty clearly different from Tezuka&#039;s, which is different from Toriyama&#039;s, which is different from Takahashi&#039;s, which is different from Inoue&#039;s.

Actually, come to think of it, you should take a look at Inoue&#039;s &quot;Vagabond&quot; manga and claim that it looks like Pokemon.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>you couldn&#8217;t accuse their work of having the uniformity of manga.</i></p>
<p>Probably because it&#8217;s in color.</p>
<p>Think of all the female superheroes Jim Lee has drawn.  In terms of actual facial variation, not hair or costumes or skin colour, there is none.</p>
<p><i> I don&#8217;t think you can say with a straight face that Batman  and Sandman have the sameness that Pokemon  and Spirited Away do.</i></p>
<p>Miyazaki&#8217;s character designs are pretty clearly different from Tezuka&#8217;s, which is different from Toriyama&#8217;s, which is different from Takahashi&#8217;s, which is different from Inoue&#8217;s.</p>
<p>Actually, come to think of it, you should take a look at Inoue&#8217;s &#8220;Vagabond&#8221; manga and claim that it looks like Pokemon.</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver Willis</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84844</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver Willis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 05:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84844</guid>
		<description>There are certain archetypal looks between superheroes, but in manga the look is the same regardless of whether its superhero, crime, magic, etc. I don&#039;t think you can say with a straight face that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theanomaly.co.uk/wp-content/images/absolutebatmanhushcover.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Batman &lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bugpowder.com/gallery/tshirts/sandman.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sandman&lt;/a&gt; have the sameness that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sfondideldesktop.com/Images-Toon/Pokemon/Pokemon-0001/Pokemon-0001.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pokemon &lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.com-x2.com/main/animanga/sections-6/spirited-away/spirited-away-art/spirited-away-5.gif&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Spirited Away&lt;/a&gt; do.

I will admit that a lot of my negativity to anime/manga is that for 20 years they&#039;ve been hyped as superior to American comics and animation, when the truth is they&#039;re &lt;i&gt;different&lt;/i&gt; and not &quot;better&quot;.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are certain archetypal looks between superheroes, but in manga the look is the same regardless of whether its superhero, crime, magic, etc. I don&#8217;t think you can say with a straight face that <a href="http://www.theanomaly.co.uk/wp-content/images/absolutebatmanhushcover.jpg" rel="nofollow">Batman </a> and <a href="http://www.bugpowder.com/gallery/tshirts/sandman.jpg" rel="nofollow">Sandman</a> have the sameness that <a href="http://www.sfondideldesktop.com/Images-Toon/Pokemon/Pokemon-0001/Pokemon-0001.jpg" rel="nofollow">Pokemon </a> and <a href="http://www.com-x2.com/main/animanga/sections-6/spirited-away/spirited-away-art/spirited-away-5.gif" rel="nofollow">Spirited Away</a> do.</p>
<p>I will admit that a lot of my negativity to anime/manga is that for 20 years they&#8217;ve been hyped as superior to American comics and animation, when the truth is they&#8217;re <i>different</i> and not &#8220;better&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Rheinhard</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84843</link>
		<dc:creator>Rheinhard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 04:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84843</guid>
		<description>OW - has it ever occurred to you that to folks in Japan and elsewhere, there ain&#039;t all that much different looks-wise between most American superheroes either, save for the color of their spandex?  I for one get turned off by the parade of ridiculously over-muscled figures that look like sacks of grapefruit in capes. Now this isn&#039;t to say the anime/manga style doesn&#039;t have its own cliches, but they&#039;re different cliches.  And, as with American comics, the best stuff isn&#039;t what you find in the shelves at the front of the bookstore - it&#039;s the lesser known, less hyped and offbeat stuff that has the real originality.  I love anime, but recommend avoiding most of the Cartoon Network lineup entirely for just this reason.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OW &#8211; has it ever occurred to you that to folks in Japan and elsewhere, there ain&#8217;t all that much different looks-wise between most American superheroes either, save for the color of their spandex?  I for one get turned off by the parade of ridiculously over-muscled figures that look like sacks of grapefruit in capes. Now this isn&#8217;t to say the anime/manga style doesn&#8217;t have its own cliches, but they&#8217;re different cliches.  And, as with American comics, the best stuff isn&#8217;t what you find in the shelves at the front of the bookstore &#8211; it&#8217;s the lesser known, less hyped and offbeat stuff that has the real originality.  I love anime, but recommend avoiding most of the Cartoon Network lineup entirely for just this reason.</p>
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		<title>By: mdhåtter</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84842</link>
		<dc:creator>mdhåtter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 03:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84842</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m all for skin, but pink ink does nothing for me.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m all for skin, but pink ink does nothing for me.</p>
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		<title>By: mike in dc</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84841</link>
		<dc:creator>mike in dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84841</guid>
		<description>OW, you should check out Chinese comics--there are different art styles, and the detail work is amazing.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OW, you should check out Chinese comics&#8211;there are different art styles, and the detail work is amazing.</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84840</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84840</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.supermanhomepage.com/multimedia/Wallpaper-Images2/Jim_Lee_Superman.JPG&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jim Lee&#039;s art&lt;/a&gt; is awesome (as is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Wolverine/Ramos/Ramos_Wolverine.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Humberto Ramos&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.joemadfan.com/gallery/p17_sectionid/10&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Joe Madureira&lt;/a&gt;). Their work is clearly japanese-influenced but you couldn&#039;t accuse their work of having the uniformity of manga.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.supermanhomepage.com/multimedia/Wallpaper-Images2/Jim_Lee_Superman.JPG" rel="nofollow">Jim Lee&#8217;s art</a> is awesome (as is <a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Wolverine/Ramos/Ramos_Wolverine.htm" rel="nofollow">Humberto Ramos</a> and <a href="http://www.joemadfan.com/gallery/p17_sectionid/10" rel="nofollow">Joe Madureira</a>). Their work is clearly japanese-influenced but you couldn&#8217;t accuse their work of having the uniformity of manga.</p>
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		<title>By: Nimrod Gently</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84839</link>
		<dc:creator>Nimrod Gently</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84839</guid>
		<description>I feel Frank Miller should have known better than to give him seven pages of Black Canary for no reason at all.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel Frank Miller should have known better than to give him seven pages of Black Canary for no reason at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Thad</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84838</link>
		<dc:creator>Thad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 23:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84838</guid>
		<description>How do you feel about Jim Lee?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you feel about Jim Lee?</p>
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		<title>By: Nimrod Gently</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84837</link>
		<dc:creator>Nimrod Gently</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 23:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84837</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t get into anything Japanese either, but at least Post Crisis Kara Zor El actually looks healthy for the first time.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t get into anything Japanese either, but at least Post Crisis Kara Zor El actually looks healthy for the first time.</p>
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		<title>By: Duros62</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/02/12/make-it-stop-2/#comment-84836</link>
		<dc:creator>Duros62</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 23:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=6959#comment-84836</guid>
		<description>Scanitly-clad pneumatic females? And that bothers you?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scanitly-clad pneumatic females? And that bothers you?</p>
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