David Broder Libels Democrats

Davidbroderliar

David Broder, the most insider of Washington insiders, perpetuates a lie and smears the Democratic party in "reporting" on this past weekend’s meeting of the DNC.

One of the losers in the weekend oratorical marathon was retired Gen. Wesley Clark, who repeatedly invoked the West Point motto of "Duty, Honor, Country," forgetting that few in this particular audience have much experience with, or sympathy for, the military.

That’s just a boldfaced lie by Broder, no two ways about it. I happened to be in attendance at the speech in question, just a stone’s throw away from General Clark when he gave it. What David Broder is saying here is an absolute lie. The crowd in attendance stood on their feet, clapped their hands loudly and strongly time and time again when speakers - including Gen. Clark - invoked the service and sacrifice of America’s fighting men and women.

In fact, in the very speech Broder cites as his reasoning for Democrats not supporting the military, Gen. Clark asked for a moment of silence (see the video here) to reflect on the sacrifices being made by the troops currently serving. The auditorium was silent, and many bowed their heads in prayer.

David Broder is a filthy liar, and the Washington Post ought to correct the slander he’s published in their pages. For too long the Republican party and the conservative movement has smeared Democrats and liberals as not supportive of the troops, when time and time again it is the right who does not look out for their interests as Democrats and liberals time and time again fight for good foreign policy, veterans benefits, and the basics of body armor for our troops.

Again I say, David Broder is lying.

MORE: David Broder is, like much of the media establishment, no stranger to deception.

Related
The Only Thing I Feel Like Noting About David Broder’s Deranged Column In The Post
David Broder’s Zombie Columns
From Broder’s Pen To The RNC’s Heart

143 Responses to “David Broder Libels Democrats”


  1. Gravatar Icon 1 pedromd07

    As McCain has put it, if you really think the war is as bad as all that, then the democrats (and few R’s) should vote to not fund it anymore. It is the only moral thing to do.

    But let’s allow an active duty soldier explain to Oliver and his ilk exactly what it is they do when they “support the troops, but not the war”…

    People like Cindy Sheehan are ignorant. Not just to this war, but to the results of their idiotic ramblings, or at least I hope they are. (snip) . And every day, the enemy changes…only now, the enemy is becoming something new. The enemy is transitioning from the Muslim extremists to Americans. The enemy is becoming the very people whom we defend with our lives. And they do not realize it. But in denouncing our actions, denouncing our leaders, denouncing the war we live and fight, they are isolating the military from society…and they are becoming our enemy.

    Democrats and peace activists like to toss the word “quagmire” around and compare this war to Vietnam. In a way they are right, this war is becoming like Vietnam. Not the actual war, but in the isolation of country and military. America is not a nation at war; they are a nation with its military at war. Like it or not, we are here, some of us for our second, or third times; some even for their fourth and so on. Americans are so concerned now with politics, that it is interfering with our war
    http://www.newmediajournal.us/guest/e_jeffers/02012007.htm

    So I guess it is the troops that don’t actually think the democrats support them either….

  2. Gravatar Icon 2 JWG

    You mean like when you write, “All People Who Still Support The Iraq War Are Idiots” that you are really not insulting the troops who still want to complete their mission?

  3. Gravatar Icon 3 mambochicken23

    What a douchebag.

    That is all.

  4. Gravatar Icon 4 larry thurston

    You have some idiotic trolls on here.

  5. Gravatar Icon 5 doggril

    Jeebus. Do these trolls have rocks in their heads? The leaders of Enron did some crappy things. They cheated a lot of people. They pulled some despicable shit. That doesn’t mean that the rank and file, most of whom believed that the company was a good company (because they were deceived), were also crooks. They weren’t the bad guys. They simply worked for an organization that was run by assholes. Same thing with the military. The people who got us into this godforsaken war are a bunch of lying assholes. They should be held accountable for pulling an enormous deception over, not just on the American people in general, but our military in particular. The kids (and a lot of them over there are just that) fighting in this mess aren’t the ones who got us into this mess; so, as a war opponent, I have no beef with them. But I think the assholes who cooked the intelligence books (and it wasn’t the CIA, but those who ignored the CIA) to get us into this mess should go to jail.
    It’s not that hard a concept. But the dumbass rank and file in the Republican party who would rather have a bunch more kids die than admit they (the dumbasses) were had by a bunch of crooks at the top continue to read from their dumbass script that says that war dissent equals treason. That’s their dumbass story and they’re sticking to it.

  6. Gravatar Icon 6 kent

    Like it or not, we are here, some of us for our second, or third times; some even for their fourth and so on. Americans are so concerned now with politics, that it is interfering with our war

    I have doubts about the authors service, but take his eliminationist rhetoric seriously.

    Dude, It is the war mongers who are playing politics with the soldiers, and no misreading of history is gonna change that.

    That said, you would be advised to check under your bed every night for which ever BoogieStrawMan or StrawMen scares the bejeebus out of you.

    It they, he, she or them, were probably not there when you went to sleep, but they might be there tonight……Under. Your. Bed!!
    .

  7. Gravatar Icon 7 norbizness

    To be fair, looking at Broder, it’s entirely possible he forgot the entire conference seconds after it ended and filled in the gaps with some old Randolph Scott movies.

  8. Gravatar Icon 8 JWG

    The troops are adults. They volunteered. They keep reenlisting. The majority want to complete their mission.

    But to OW and his “We support our childlike troops” commenters, the troops who support their mission are “idiots”.

  9. Gravatar Icon 9 ProfessorPlum

    “They keep reenlisting. ”

    Even when they are forced to, by stop-loss. Funny, that.

  10. Gravatar Icon 10 John

    Ollie, your knickers are in quite a twist. A little sensitive on this issue / fact, perhaps?

  11. Gravatar Icon 11 midderpidge

    Geez Pedo, we didn’t know you served in Iraq. Good for you. If you are still there, keep your head down.

  12. Gravatar Icon 12 MasonMcD

    I think it’s time to repost the “Who has Served?” list:

    http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

  13. Gravatar Icon 13 frank fucking rizzo

    The majority want to complete their mission.

    And what is their mission, exactly? (I thought it was “accomplished” years ago.)

    the troops who support their mission are “idiots”.

    Well, if they think they can bring democracy to the Iraqis by killing them, then yes, they are idiots. And if they think this war is in any way winnable . . . well, I wouldn’t call them idiots for that, but I would suggest that perhaps they lack perspective.

    And for the record, if I have to support the war in order to support the troops, then I most emphatically do not support the troops. But I reject that false dichotomy.

  14. Gravatar Icon 14 OtherDoug

    Considering the number of vets who were just elected to Congress I’d have to say there are more Democrats with military service records than Republicans there now. Further, most of those Dem vets campaigned in opposition to the Iraq War. Broder is wrong on nearly all points. The right-wing commenters here also seem trapped in a Ramboesque view of the politics of service people.

    My brother served in Iraq. He’s solid conservative. He supported the invasion. He now wants us out. I think his views are more typical of vets than what the commenters are putting out. Military Times polling showed support for the “Surge” at only 38% amongst active duty military.

  15. Gravatar Icon 15 michael

    Pedro: America is not a nation at war; they are a nation with its military at war.

    For a short time, this country was utterly united and ready to follow the President anywhere.

    So he told us to go shopping, and then attacked a country that hadn’t attacked us.

    He’s asked for sacrifice from NOBODY except the military. There’s no rationing, no war bonds, no tax increase, no calls from the President for all able-bodied Americans to pick up arms and fight.

    And somehow this is the Left’s fault.

  16. Gravatar Icon 16 John

    Most of these comments support Mr. Broder’s thesis quite nicely.

  17. Gravatar Icon 17 Jay

    Even when they are forced to, by stop-loss. Funny, that.

    Really? What evidence do you have that they are “forced to”?

    I know personally, two people who put their two years in and are done. They weren’t ‘forced’ to re-enlist.

    Oh and saying, “What’s with the trolls” is nothing more than a translation of, “Well, I don’t have a response that contains any semblance of intelligence, so I’ll just call them trolls and snicker.”

    Posting a comment that disagrees with Oliver’s point of view does not make one a troll. If somebody left a comment that said, “Oliver, you’re stupid”, that would be the mark of a troll.

    Get it right folks.

    And I’m sorry, but JWG is 100% right. This “We support the troops” bullshit that comes from the left is complete nonsense especially when all they hear from such simps is that our troops are “dying for nothing” and also very subtle accusations that those troops, the majority of which support the President, “really don’t know what’s going on.” Translation: “They’re stupid, don’t know any better and are just doing what they’re told.”

    All those should go watch this video. Of course, that’s the opinion of just a few of those “stupid” troops you wholeheartedly claim to “support.”

  18. Gravatar Icon 18 JWG

    Even when they are forced to, by stop-loss. Funny, that.

    Stop-loss is not considered reenlistment. Reenlistment is at high rates.

    Get your facts straight. This is typical of the inability of too many democrats to understand how the military works.

  19. Gravatar Icon 19 Bhaal

    I’ll never understand how the ‘leaders’ who continually place the military in harm’s way with no clear mission/exit strategy (not to mention proper equipment) are said to ’support the troops’.

  20. Gravatar Icon 20 El Cid

    I served in the military. And I’m one of those awful nutcase extreme liberals.

    And you know what? While I was in, I wasn’t a baby. I didn’t walk around every day constantly afraid that some civilian wasn’t ‘appreciating’ me enough.

    I didn’t collapse into morale-busting tears if a politician disagreed with another politician.

    I wasn’t sent to Gulf War I, but my fellows were, and you know what? They also didn’t cry if there was an anti-war protest or if some politicians disagreed with the need for a war.

    For some reason, those who don’t serve seem to think they have an obligation to see all military service personnel as petulant infants.

    They portray our service members as whiny babies who freak out when there’s an argument over politics and policies. NEWS FLASH: OUR TROOPS ARE NOT INFANTS, THEY GREW UP HERE IN THE U.S.A. AND THEY DON’T CRY WHEN POLITICIANS ARGUE OVER POLICY.

  21. Gravatar Icon 21 lower tiberius

    Broder gets more out there every passing day. Note to Broder: please hurry up and die.

    What concerns me more are rightwing neo-conic killers who in a heart beat would and who apparently fully intend to turn on the american people “they so generously sacrifice to defend” as the next carnal biscuit to chew through in the adrenalin rush they seek like sharks who never sleep or stop searching for the next cellophane enemy of their own making after being buzzed up with phoney intel they dont even care to examine for veracity. Some people think a crew cut and throwing in with Rush Limbaugh will pave over the potholes in their character or that decent people wont figure out why they hide behind the mask of murderous, mindless mayhem in non-stop hostility toward anyone and anything. Dick Cheney prefers shooting 73 priviously penned birds in a setting, not because he’s a sportsman it’s because somethng that takes skill like skeet (clay pigeons) wont bleed and die for him. face the facts … Commander a Chief is a zero and people like pedromd07 followanyone who will allow them to butcher to impress.

  22. Gravatar Icon 22 Geeno

    Well said, El Cid. That’s the thing about the whole “Support the Troops” tripe. It’s not pro-troops; it’s anti-american.

  23. Gravatar Icon 23 JWG

    The last congress (109th) that was seated in 2005:

    31% of Senate were veterans
    25% of Representatives were veterans
    13% of general public were veterans

    I don’t know the Rep/Dem breakdown.

    I also don’t know the current (110th) statistics.

    But it’s interesting that our congress has more veterans than the general population.

  24. Gravatar Icon 24 Horatius

    Man. If all these chest-thumping war-mongering morons enlisted, we would have a lot of bodies to throw into the meat-grinder in Iraq.

    But then it would reduce the average IQ of our army to below that of the Commander-in-chief and that may probably be classified as “not supporting our troops”

  25. Gravatar Icon 25 Horatius

    Here’s another republican talking point.

    Throwing our troops into the meat-grinder is “supporting our troops”

    Cutting veterans benefits back home is “supporting our troops”

    Now, let me try to reconcile that.

    Oh!! I see it now. We support our troops “there” so we don’t have to support them over “here”.

  26. Gravatar Icon 26 pseudonymous in nc

    Stop-loss is not considered reenlistment. Reenlistment is at high rates.

    And the choice is between taking the re-up bonus or being stop-lossed or called up out of the reserves — active or inactive — anyway.

    Really, don’t piss on our backs and tell us it’s raining.

  27. Gravatar Icon 27 Jadegold

    Jay C’s military experience: 0

    JWG’s military experience: 0

    The recent Military Times (Dec 06) poll puts a kibosh on the meme that the troops want to “complete the mission.” A Zogby poll of deployed troops in Iraq drives a stake through the heart of the meme.

  28. Gravatar Icon 28 jim

    I fully understand and support our troops while they do their assigned ‘mission’.

    Unfortunately the ‘mission’ has morphed multiple times since the inception…far away from the authorization granted by Congress.

    I applaud our troops for defending their brothers in arms and returning time and time again to keep their brother safe. However..our troops are now the armed referees in a civil war that, because of inept leadership at the highest level, they basically caused.

    Yes…the strife in Iraq is the fault of the US…but not of our troops themselves….just our lack of vision by our leadership…the same lack of vision that is keeping them unjustly in harms way in a created country that wants to dissolve back into factions….egged on by neighboring countries using Iraq as a proxy for their fight….over oil.

    Oil…we are fighting for the Saudi’s while they are gouging our pockets with their companies reporting record profits….. while US blood lies spilled…but not Saudi blood.

  29. Gravatar Icon 29 Jay

    Man. If all these chest-thumping war-mongering morons enlisted, we would have a lot of bodies to throw into the meat-grinder in Iraq.

    Another lazy ‘argument’ forever used by the left.

  30. Gravatar Icon 30 Bill in Portland Maine

    I read that this morning, too, and my jaw dropped. Not because, as you say, the crowd was enthusiastic, but just the notion that liberals don’t have experience with, or sympathy for, the military.

    I believe it’s a Republican who is in the process of destroying our military, Mr. Broder.

    -

  31. Gravatar Icon 31 Horatius

    You wanna support our troops Jay-boy?

    Take half the money you spent on this stupid cluster-fuck and distribute it among our troops.

    Maybe, I’ll persuade some of them to stand guard outside your room as you sleep at night, so you don’t wet your bed thinking about all them terr’ists.

  32. Gravatar Icon 32 Dave G

    Democrats:
    —————-
    John Murtha: 37 years in the Marines.
    Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
    David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
    Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
    Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
    Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
    Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
    John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
    Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
    Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star,Vietnam. Paraplegic from war injuries. Served in Congress.
    Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
    Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
    Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
    Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
    Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars,and Soldier’s Medal.
    Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
    Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
    Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
    Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
    Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
    Chuck Robb: Vietnam
    Howell Heflin: Silver Star
    George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
    Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but received #311.
    Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
    Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
    John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and AirMedal with 18 Clusters.
    Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.

    Republicans
    ——————
    George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard duty; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
    Dick Cheney: did not serve. Five deferments.
    Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
    Tom DeLay: did not serve.
    Roy Blunt: did not serve.
    Bill Frist: did not serve.
    Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
    Rick Santorum: did not serve.
    Trent Lott: did not serve.
    John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
    Jeb Bush: did not serve.
    Karl Rove: did not serve.
    Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. “Bad knee.” This is the man who attacked Max Cleland’s patriotism.
    Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
    Vin Weber: did not serve.
    Richard Perle: did not serve.
    Douglas Feith: did not serve.
    Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
    Richard Shelby: did not serve.
    Jon Kyl: did not serve.
    Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
    Christopher Cox: did not serve.
    Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
    Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
    Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non- combat role making movies.
    B-1 Bob Dornan: Intentionally enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
    Phil Gramm: did not serve.
    John McCain: Vietnam POW, Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
    Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
    John M. McHugh: did not serve.
    JC Watts: did not serve.
    Jack Kemp: did not serve. “Knee problem,” although he continued in the NFL for 8 years as quarterback.
    Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
    Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
    George Pataki: did not serve.
    Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
    John Engler: did not serve.
    Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
    Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

    Pundits
    ————————-
    Sean Hannity: did not serve.
    Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a pilonidal cyst.)
    Bill O’Reilly: did not serve.
    Michael Savage: did not serve.
    George Will: did not serve.
    Chris Matthews: did not serve.
    Paul Gigot: did not serve.
    Bill Bennett: did not serve.
    Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
    John Wayne: did not serve.
    Bill Kristol: did not serve.
    Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
    Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
    Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
    Ralph Reed: did not serve.
    Michael Medved: did not serve.
    Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
    Ted Nugent: did not serve.

  33. Gravatar Icon 33 carla

    Stop-loss is not considered reenlistment. Reenlistment is at high rates.

    Re-enlistment rates are high mostly due to huge signing bonuses. However in order to maintain its recruitment numbers, the US military has had to lower its standards of entry, specifically the “morality” standard.

    Individuals who have been convicted of serious crimes such as theft and rape are now wearing the uniform, where just a few years ago this would have been prohibited.

    Incidentally, please spare us the “Democrats don’t understand the military” garbage. Many Democrats have served in the military and many have family members serving.

    One’s party affiliation doesn’t come with an automatic understanding of any topic, including the military. Frankly, there are many serving in the military right now who believe that Iraq is a complete mess and that the “mission” is nonexistent.

    To pretend that most or all of those serving are of one mind on this issue is ludicrous and untrue.

    And while I’m at it–David Broder is a disingenuous, lying hack.

  34. Gravatar Icon 34 carla

    I read that this morning, too, and my jaw dropped. Not because, as you say, the crowd was enthusiastic, but just the notion that liberals don’t have experience with, or sympathy for, the military.

    Cuz nothing says “sympathy for the military” like sending them off to a country with virtual targets painted on them..without the necessary tools to fight back and protect themselves.

  35. Gravatar Icon 35 Bruce/Crablaw

    I get the idea that there must be some pool of dumbasses who just desperately WANT to believe that Broder is somehow a sober, reliable and responsible commentator.

    In NW Baltimore, there is a noted “spiritualist” named the Rev. Sister Faye. Rev. Sister Faye has maintained her place of business at the corner of Park Heights and Northern Parkway near Pimlico for at least 25 years (I am 37 and she was doing spiritualist counseling there when I was in the 6th grade.) People desperately want to believe that this fortune teller knows the truth. So they pay her. And she thrives. Unlike stock brokers but like Broker, she is constitutionally exempt from regulation or reliability for her advice and analyses under the free exercise clause of the 1st Amendment (freedom of speech and of the press for Broder.)

    So that’s it. Broder is the Georgetown, West-of-the-Park crowd’s equivalent of Sister Faye.

  36. Gravatar Icon 36 ed

    Gosh, in only Clark had sat out the Vietnam War snorting cocaine, shirking cushy ANG duty, and binge drinking. Or maybe he could have gotten a series of deferrments.

    Or perhaps he could have joined the 101st Fighting Keyboarders, who are valiantly letting others serve abroad while they fight the Most Awesomest War Ever from behind a keyboard. (I think some are chiming in here. Good job men, you’re not a bunch of total fucking pussies–all bark and no bite— like that wimpy fraud Wes Clark. Keep it up!)

    Then he’d have some real War Cred. Ah, what might have been…

  37. Gravatar Icon 37 JWG

    JWG’s military experience: 0

    What a surprise. Jadegold is back with his proven lies.

  38. Gravatar Icon 38 benj

    Ahh, the new troll method - just straight up LIE and pretend that you’re an enlisted soldier who just happens to read lots of blogs and leave lots of comments spewing right-wing idiocy. Do you all not see how transparently desperate you are? Last real poll of the military I saw showed a majority wanting to end the “mission” and go home, so suck on that. Not to mention the vast majority of Americans and an even more vast majority of Iraqis.

  39. Gravatar Icon 39 Dugger

    Broder, a leftist, is correct. Progressives strongly dislike the military - always have. Don’t forget Wm Arkin’s little anti-military diatribe. That epitomizes the left’s hate of the military.

  40. Gravatar Icon 40 Grand Moff Texan

    So I guess it is the troops that don’t actually think the democrats support them either….

    “Troops”? Uh, no. That would be one “troop,” supposedly.

    You really are dumb enough to be a conservative, pedromd07.
    .

  41. Gravatar Icon 41 global citizen

    Dave G. has it exactly right and the trolls that got in early on this thread are undoubtedly in the ‘pundit’ category in terms of service. But the even more important point is who serves those who serve better those for whom war is a last resort or those for whom war is a fratboy game with other people’s lives.

  42. Gravatar Icon 42 Horatius

    The one and only “General” is right.

    This is an Eternal War to Resubjugate the Brown People (c) — Jesus’ General

  43. Gravatar Icon 43 JWG

    Last real poll of the military I saw showed a majority wanting to end the “mission” and go home

    That was not a scientific poll. It was a mail-in survey. The publisher even said it couldn’t be used as a valid indicator.

  44. Gravatar Icon 44 midderpidge

    I think the only reason Republican leadership pretends to like the military is for the big contracts awarded to their donors. When it comes to benefits for vets and soldiers they just seem to be disengaged.

    And Dave G, you left out GW Bush’s biggest TANG assignment: as escort to Nixon’s daughter. TANG Gigolo.

  45. Gravatar Icon 45 lawguy

    You have the best trolls Oliver. Whenever I read about the need to listen to the troops and just to do what the troops want, I just go back and read General Smedly Butler’s speech, about how little independant thought he had while in the military. You know the guy who won 2 Medals of Honor.

  46. Gravatar Icon 46 JWG

    Great work, OW!

    Broder writes that few people in the audience had military experience or understands the feelings, desires, motives, and actions of the troops (i.e. sympathy).

    Commenters on your blog give us:

    soldiers are children meme - check
    Troops reenlist because of money - check
    chickenhawk meme - check
    calls for Broder to die - check
    AWOL/cocain Bush - check
    Rush Limbaugh mentioned repeatedly - check
    Fears that dissent = treason - check
    Claiming the Right is “anti-American” - check
    the “Brown People” meme - check

    OW brought them all out!

  47. Gravatar Icon 47 PD100

    You forgot -

    Shorter JWG: I have no life.

  48. Gravatar Icon 48 matt

    Check out all the nonresponsive, fact free right wing morons posting in the comments here. Seems to me like some Giuliani-style cleanup is in order.

  49. Gravatar Icon 49 tree

    Here’s a Zogby poll from a year ago. The majority of the troops wanted us out within the year.

    http://www.zogby.com/NEWS/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

  50. Gravatar Icon 50 Mike the Mad Biologist

    No Penalty For Lying

    Over at Hullabaloo, Tristero describes this conversation with a respected journalist about the manufactured smear of

  51. Gravatar Icon 51 pedromd07

    Completely ignore the words of the active duty soldier who says the leftists are hurting the war effort, except to suggest that he doesn’t exist without any basis in fact.

    Check

  52. Gravatar Icon 52 michael

    To be fair, Pedro, you didn’t put quotes or anything around any part of that post, so it was hard to tell where your ramblings left off and his began.

    But it sounds to me like your active duty solider doesn’t think he’s fighting Muslim extremists so much as he’s fighting discouraging words at home. I guess when the objective of the war has changed over and over again, he can be forgiven for forgetting exactly what he’s doing over there in the first place.

  53. Gravatar Icon 53 Rex Mundane

    Broder is part of the horseshit echo chamber, where the fact of his saying that teh librulz dont care about the troops is not simply supposed to be self-evident, but self-perpetuating circular logic. The mere speaking the meme grants it legitimacy, and the legitimacy of the meme gets it spoken more. So in spite of the applause Clark recieves, Broder, without evidence (in deed in spite of it) claims that Democrats basically dont like the military.

    But surely there is truth in the argument itself that doesnt need to even be addressed right? Surely the argument is so self evident that the rightward leaning trolls here dont need to even argue it and can instead just repeat the basic thesis of “teh librul hatez teh troops” right?

    Well okay then, let me ask, if I am a progressive, what exactly about me makes me a troop-hater? Is it how I object to our presence there in the absence of any stated military objectives? Is it how I object to Bush’s cutting of veterans benefits? Is it how I object to Bush claiming he listens to the generals one minute then says he’ll decide whatever he likes in spite of them? Is it how I want to make sure they have adequate body armor and equipment to complete whatever job theyre still over there to do? Is it that I’m concerned about their ability to address real threats from, for instance, Iran and Syria (to say nothing of Al Qaeda) when they are stuck in Iraq?

    Or is it that I just disagree with the President that proves I hate the troops? Is that all it takes? That I have the temerity to question him as he issues orders that few if any of his generals agree with and his country does not, by and large, support? Is it the fact that I agree with the majority of Americans that means I hate the troops? Is that what it takes to make me an enemy of America?

  54. Gravatar Icon 54 JWG

    Is it how I object to Bush’s cutting of veterans benefits?

    What benefits were cut?

    “teh librul hatez teh troops”

    Where did Broder make this point?

  55. Gravatar Icon 55 Seeing the Forest

    They Destroy Our Leaders

    Most of the Democratic leadership are veterans, and all the veterans who ran for Congress or the Senate in this last election ran as Democrats. I think no Republican leaders except McCain ever served in the military. But that doesn’t…

  56. Gravatar Icon 56 pedromd07

    sorry for the quote problem michael, I forgot that liberals rarely actually follow the links to the primary document before going off half-cocked about how wrong the author (whom the critic never actually READ) was…

    And rex, I don’t think it is self evident that liberals hate the troops, but I did in fact link you to an active duty soldier in Iraq who does.

    See, we conservatives like to back up our arguments with factual data, rather than just reverting to childhood taunts

  57. Gravatar Icon 57 michael

    An opinion column doesn’t count as factual data.

  58. Gravatar Icon 58 bg

    “31% of Senate were veterans
    25% of Representatives were veterans
    13% of general public were veterans

    I don’t know the Rep/Dem breakdown.”

    Guess we’ll have to use Dave G.’s stats.

  59. Gravatar Icon 59 Rex Mundane

    What benefits were cut?

    Mostly medical and housing.
    WashPo-2003: Support for Troops Questioned

    Bush’s opponents say he has rewarded American troops’ heroism by skimping on their housing benefits, their tax cuts, their health care and education for their children.
    A new report by the Democratic staff on the House Appropriations Committee this week asserts that Bush, by cutting about $200 million in the program that provides assistance to public schools serving military bases, would pare education funding disproportionately for children of soldiers who fought in Iraq. That adds to several complaints the staff has assembled: Bush’s signature on the latest tax cut, which failed to extend a child tax credit to nearly 200,000 low-income military personnel; a $1.5 billion reduction in his 2004 budget, to $9.2 billion from $10.7 billion, for military housing and the like; and a cut of $14.6 billion over 10 years in benefits paid through the Veterans Administration.

    See pedro, we tehlibruls like to back up our arguments with analysis and studies, not with opinion columns. But then its a democratic report, and they cant be trusted because they hate the troops, right?

    Where did Broder make this point?
    When he said that Democrats have no real sympathy for people who put themselves in harms way in the name of protecting the American citizenry I think.

  60. Gravatar Icon 60 lutton

    I write letters:

    ombudsman@washpost.com:

    In a column dated Tuesday, February 6, 2007 (Page A17), David S Broder says, “few in this particular audience [DNC meeting] have much experience with, or sympathy for, the military.”

    It is ridiculous and highly inappropriate for him to suggest that only a few attendees of the Democratic National Committee meeting have “sympathy for the military.” Does he have any proof of such a statement. Did the DNC hold a secret vote expressing a lack of sympathy for the military?

    Please review this column and let us know what has been done to correct this outlandish statement.

    (lutton)
    Philadelphia, PA

  61. Gravatar Icon 61 Col Bat Guano

    That was not a scientific poll. It was a mail-in survey. The publisher even said it couldn’t be used as a valid indicator.

    As opposed to your “the troops support the war because I say so” scientific survey.

  62. Gravatar Icon 62 arthurize

    interesting about cutting benefits. Didn’t Arkin just write a column about how members of the military are supplied with an outrageous amount of largesse? I wonder which it is. No doubt its both.Oh well–since we should only attack countries which attack us, refresh me about the attack on the US by the Kosovars? My newspaper subscription was lapsed, I think.

  63. Gravatar Icon 63 Grand Moff Texan

    See, we conservatives like to back up our arguments with factual data

    Bullshit. When do conservatives ever do that? Conservatives don’t do empiricism, which explains their positions on evolution, climate change, weapons of mass destruction, free-lunch economics, education, and the entire reality based community, right?

    This is why you cited a sample size of one and thought you’d made a point. There’s nothing left of conservatism but a dumb cult that can’t get anything right.
    .

  64. Gravatar Icon 64 JWG

    Guess we’ll have to use Dave G.’s stats.

    Err…did you even look at who is listed?

    Mostly medical and housing.

    Cuts in specific areas were more than balanced by increases in medical and housing elsewhere. You can’t point to any year in which Veterans Benefits did not see an increase in overall funding.

    When he said that Democrats have no real sympathy

    He didn’t label all Democrats or even most Democrats, just the ones in the room.

    Additionally, sympathy means to share or reflect the feelings of another. Which feelings of military personnel were those in the room reflecting?

  65. Gravatar Icon 65 Duros62

    Hey, man, I support the troops. Any of them need a ride somewhere, just let me know.

    And no, I don’t have a yellow magnet on my car.
    OT: where do those come from? How does buying a $2 magnet help “support the troops?” The proceeds could be funding AQ for all we know.

  66. Gravatar Icon 66 cal

    Way past time from Broder to retire.

    As always,uninformed and leaning to the right.

    As I recall there are more Democrats (in Congress) who’ve served than Republicans.

    Broder and his class are a good share of the reason we’re in the current bind.

  67. Gravatar Icon 67 freD

    There’s nothing left of conservatism but a dumb cult that can’t get anything right.

    Heh. And even their Professional Liars suck!

  68. Gravatar Icon 68 Duros62

    He didn’t label all Democrats or even most Democrats, just the ones in the room.

    And yet, that seems to be what you guys are doing; painting with broad strokes.

  69. Gravatar Icon 69 JWG

    Which feelings of military personnel were those in the room reflecting?

  70. Gravatar Icon 70 Rex Mundane

    He didn’t label all Democrats or even most Democrats, just the ones in the room.
    Are you saying that the DNC doesn’t represent Democrats as a whole? That the way he’s representing the representitives of Democrats is not decessarily to connect his statements to Democrats as a whole? Is Semantics seriously the last thing your argument has to stand on here?

    Cuts in specific areas were more than balanced by increases in medical and housing elsewhere. You can’t point to any year in which Veterans Benefits did not see an increase in overall funding.

    Care to demonstrate your thesis? Just that from what I cited it looks sorta like there was a “cut of $14.6 billion over 10 years in benefits paid through the Veterans Administration.” If its really just redistribution then I’ll admit I may have been mistaken, I didn’t after all conduct the study myself, but if this $14.8-bil is taken from the VA then I’m curious, how else exactly would it be getting to the veterans?

  71. Gravatar Icon 71 Rich

    As a member of one of the Philadelphia chapters of Veterans for Peace, I can assure folks here that we vets have met with zero disrepect from anti-war protesters.

  72. Gravatar Icon 72 Rex Mundane

    Which feelings of military personnel were those in the room reflecting?
    Um, the argument is basically about Broder’s ignoring that they agreed with and applauded Gen. Wesley Clark. Rather think it can be said that the room reflected the thoughts of military personnel there.

  73. Gravatar Icon 73 frameone

    Oh JWG, you are a pricless moron. You write:

    Commenters on your blog give us:

    soldiers are children meme - check

    Apparently, you did not take pedro’s advice and follow the link to his “primary document.”

    As per Sgt. Eddie Jeffers, USA (Iraq):

    “…it is a right that is defended by hundreds of thousands of boys and girls scattered across the world, far from home. I use the word boys and girls, because that’s what they are. In the Army, the average age of the infantryman is nineteen years old. The average rank of soldiers killed in action is Private First Class.

    On your own you guys are just average total idiots. Put you together and your idiocy rises to truly heroic levels.

  74. Gravatar Icon 74 JWG

    The recent Military Times (Dec 06) poll puts a kibosh on the meme that the troops want to “complete the mission.”

    Look here for the survey results.

    The survey showed that a majority (52%) approve of how Bush is performing as president, but a majority DISapprove of how he has run the war (42%).

    However, that doesn’t mean they don’t support their mission. A majority think they need MORE troops (51% — twice as many who think they should have fewer). And a majority (50%) think they are likely to succeed in Iraq.

    Now tell me, are these the feelings that Broder was lying about when he wrote that the people in the room weren’t sympathetic?

  75. Gravatar Icon 75 nogo postal

    I love the smell of irony in the morning. In December 06 I was arrested on a complaint by an Army Recruiting office in a small strip mall for walking on the sidewalk with a sign “Occupation Breeds Hate” They did this while talking to young desperate young people about joining to fight for our freedoms..Broder and his ilk are asses.

  76. Gravatar Icon 76 JWG

    I use the word boys and girls, because that’s what they are.

    I did not link to it. The statement is wrong. They are adults.

    Tell me how many of these people were not adults capable of making their own choices (or even 19 years old)…
    http://www.fallensoldier.com/fallen/list_by_name

  77. Gravatar Icon 77 JWG

    desperate young people

    Ah, yes…

    The troops have no alternatives meme - check!

    John Kerry thanks you.

  78. Gravatar Icon 78 frameone

    “I did not link to it. The statement is wrong. They are adults.”

    Are you suggesting that Sgt. Eddie Jeffers, USA (Iraq) doesn’t know what he is talking about, JWG?

  79. Gravatar Icon 79 Rex Mundane

    John Kerry thanks you.
    Baseless claim that Vietnam Vet John Kerry hates the troops in order to derail the subject - Check.
    Dick Cheney thanks you.

  80. Gravatar Icon 80 midderpidge

    Just a quick example of Bush Veteran cuts that specifically affect returning Iraq veterans would be the cuts in funding for VA treatment of PTSD along with rule changes making it much more difficult to qualify for treatment.

  81. Gravatar Icon 81 ed

    Hey, you homosexual loving liberals hate America and the Troops. Not like “Old Blood and Guts” JWG and “Notapussy” Jay and me. Heck, liberal wimps actually wanted to let the weapons inspectors do their jobs instead of invading to thwart an imminent threat. We knew that Iraq had a nuclear bomb (and would share it with terrorists) and was linked to 9-11 and so forth. And we found WsMD too, the President said so. Loser liberals think he’s a dumbass coke-addled little Lord Fauntleroy, but “they’re wrong, we found them.”

    We’re fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them here (i.e., if we hadn’t invaded Iraq, they would have definitely invaded us).

    Liberals actually this was a war of choice led by a deeply incompetend and corrupt administration. Hah. Michael Leedon’s daughter might have a few things to say about that.

    Thank goodness stout, strong, earnest fighters like JWG and Jay and I supported and still support the Troops. We know they didn’t die or were injured for an unnecessary vanity war that has only benefited politically linked contractors and Republican donors. Nosiree. We still support sending the Troops over there (even if we stay behind to fight the even tougher blog wars here).

    So suck it liberal losers!!!!!!

  82. Gravatar Icon 82 Macswain

    JWG,

    Your link is to the poll taken in 2005 though you appear to recite numbers from the 2006 poll.

    You’re lying when you say 51% support more troops. In fact, only 38% support more than the 145,000 currently there. While 39% support 145,000 or fewer.

    Most importantly, you fail to note that the Military Times readily acknowledges that its polling method - voluntary submissions from its subscribers - may not yield a representative result as Officers disproportionately respond (and skew the poll in a pro-Bush manner). Indeed, 34% of the respondents have never deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan and only 20% of the respondents have deployed to either theater for more than 12 months.

  83. Gravatar Icon 83 JWG

    Are you suggesting that Sgt. Eddie Jeffers, USA (Iraq) doesn’t know what he is talking about, JWG?

    In terms of the average age of those fighting and dying in Iraq? Yes.

    In calling anyone over 18 years old something other than an adult? Yes.

    However, it is not patronizing for someone leading people who are younger than he is to refer to them as boys and girls. It is patronizing for those NOT commanding them to call them children.

    Baseless claim that Vietnam Vet John Kerry hates the troops

    I didn’t make that claim. His (”botched”) statement was that the troops served because they didn’t have alternatives — exactly what the commenter wrote.

    I’m still waiting to hear about those feelings of our troops that everyone here sympathizes with…
    More troops?
    Iraq success?

  84. Gravatar Icon 84 Radio Left

    Steve Benen (Carpetbagger Report): ‘Dean’ Broder Smears Dems With Vicious Lie

    FAIR Media Views

    In his newest Washington Post column, David Broder writes that retired Gen. Wesley Clark was “…

  85. Gravatar Icon 85 Duros62

    I’m still waiting to hear about those feelings of our troops that everyone here sympathizes with…

    How about “when can we get the fuck out of this hellhole?”

    I certainly sympathize with that.

  86. Gravatar Icon 86 michael

    Do we have a goal in sight that constitutes Iraq success? Or are we still going with the “we’ll know we’ve won when we succeed, and we’ll know we’ve succeeded when we’ve won” philosophy?

  87. Gravatar Icon 87 frameone

    “However, it is not patronizing for someone leading people who are younger than he is to refer to them as boys and girls. It is patronizing for those NOT commanding them to call them children.”

    Nice dodge, JWG. You truly are a worldclass idiot.

  88. Gravatar Icon 88