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I heard these things (or allegations similar to them) about Iraq in the Summer of 2002 and throughout the campaign leading up to the war in March of 2003. They were not true. The intelligence was cooked. I was skeptical then, and one thousand times more so now.
I do not believe this.
Oliver Willis
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I stopped believing anything chickengeorge says about 5 years ago.
The intelligence was cooked.
It was not cooked. It was wrong. There is a difference. And if you’re accusing people of “cooking” the intelligence, then all you’re doing is accusing CIA officials, agents and operatives of being liars.
Bush said we had evidence Saddam had WMDs. We did not. He was not “wrong.” He was “lying.” There is a difference.
no pollack, the evidence was wrong.
Lets repeat, one more time for the leftards:
Iraq was obligated to prove it’s destruction of wmds by the UN mandate: It did not.
Iraq ignored UN mandates for over 12 years.
Iraq was capable of building and using (and in fact had) WMDs
Everything the liberals have to say about the mid-east in general is suspect. They CANNOT tolerate a “win” there, it will crush their party. Listening to the democrat party speaking about the mideast is like listening to convicted murders in jail, everyone of them is innocent. In this case, there can be no good news out of the mideast.
Ollie, where was your headline about the 200 insurgents killed in Iraq? Was that a “lie” too? I mean, since you WANT Iraq to turn out well both for your country and the Iraqi’s, why aren’t you celebrating that victory?
Because celebrating death is fucked up even if it does have advantageous side-effects for your “side”?
dont I know it nimrod…..
people like you were seriously bummed when the nazi’s were wiped out…how ashamed you must have been at Mr. Churchill’s antics at winning wwII at the cost of all those poor nazi lives….
But on the good news side, your worldview is reallly coming into focus for us…lets see: Steal peoples talent for free (or steal the money to pay for it from others), don’t bother defending yourself if you might hurt someone…
Yup, ideologic twaddle from a broke 23 y/o….
LOL
“Iraq was capable of building and using (and in fact had) WMDs”
When and where in Iraq?
Cite evidence, especially sources that prove the WMD threat was “imminent” -not antiquated chemical shells, not abandoned facilities with “traces” nor vague documents of “intent”.
..where was your headline about the 200 insurgents killed in Iraq? Was that a “lie” too? I mean, since you WANT Iraq to turn out well both for your country and the Iraqi’s, why aren’t you celebrating that victory?
Victory? Who was supposed to be greeted as liberators? Isn’t the insurgency in its last throes? Shouldn’t this operation have been over with 6 months after the invasion? Are you celebrating, Dugger?
Pedro is obviously both an idiot and nuts. So goes the Way of the Wingnut, from idiocy to madness.
Speaking of madness, it should be abundantly clear by now that Bush’s exist strategy for Iraq is invading or otherwise attacking Iran. Whoopee.
Hey Pedro, there’s an old saying in Tennessee, or at least there is in Texas. Fool me once, shame, shame on me. Fool me twice . . ., we won’t get fooled again.
And could you show me some concrete evidence that you DON”T kick dogs? Waiting . . .
Bush’s exist strategy
LOL
Ever hear of the boy who cried wolf?
Seriously, who do they think is gonna buy this retread? (Pedro and Dugger excluded, of course)
We’ve all seen this movie before, and frankly, I didn’t like the ending.
What makes anyone think that Iraq 2.0 is gonna work out any different?
First part of “walk softly and carry a big stick” diplomacy is to stop poking with the stick.
First part of “walk softly and carry a big stick” diplomacy is to stop poking with the stick.
Actually, their approach is more like “talk loud, smash your stick over the wrong guy’s head, then talk even louder in the hopes that no one notices you’ve broken the stick.”
“talk loud, smash your stick over the wrong guy’s head, then talk even louder in the hopes that no one notices you’ve broken the stick.”
In a nutshell …
Because the bodycount b.s. was a lie in Vietnam and it’s b.s. only Republican apologists believe now.
When are you guys gonna put together your book of Bush claims about Iraq’s WMDs that were true? About every claim was debunked instantly, a lie, a false conclusion, ridiculous, or just plain wrong. COOKED the books.
Now you want us to listen to you about Iran. Great. Like Bush wants anything but a conforntation with Iran. He spurned every offer from Iran for years and pissed them off to the point that now Iran won’t accept the terms they offered three years ago. On top of that by outing Valerie Plame they knocked out parft of the CIA’s ability to monitor Iran’s nuclear programs. Good job.
The left is suspect on the middle east? Pedo has to be kidding. It’s like the Pot calling the sunshine black. Makes no sense.
Dear Pedro,
Fuck you and everyone who looks like you.
Yours sincerely,
Anyone who has ever had to listen to a single word you have ever said.
(Typical right wing thinking #3,323: implying that my income affects the worth of my arguments)
Gently, Nimrod.
Oliver, are you following Joe Biden’s public implosion?
“Because the bodycount b.s. was a lie in Vietnam and it’s b.s. ”
Are you referring to the over 3 million indochinese killed after the US left vietnam/laos/cambodia Ollie?
Funny how the leftists never mention the genocide that occurred after the leftist forced a unilateral surrender..
Wait, are you saying what I think you’re saying? You think you should have stayed in Vietnam?
Jay:
“[The intelligence] was not cooked. It was wrong.”
So how do you explain The OSP?
Or The Downing Street Memo?
Pedro:
“…the genocide that occurred after the leftist forced a unilateral surrender.”
Just because things happen in sequence doesn’t mean they are causally linked. Can you explain how our withdrawal from Vietnam caused the genocide? (Or provide a link?)
Thanks.
How much influence did the leftists have over Nixon and Kissinger? This could be a huge revelation if *snicker* true.
About every claim was debunked instantly, a lie, a false conclusion, ridiculous, or just plain wrong. COOKED the books.
Yeah? Where?
Sure ND…
http://www.edwebproject.org/sideshow/khmeryears/index.html
you’ll note that the beginning of the genocide coincides nicely with the last american flight out of saigon, so there is clearly a temporal relationship.
as you peruse the link above you’ll also note that up until the genocide was perpetrated the Khmer Rouge were busy fighting us…
If you need any more elementary history lessons, just let me know.
And nimrod, your income most certainly does affect your argument. I find most people supporting wealth and income distribution are unable to get by well on their own steam, so feel that richer people owe them something. Rich people never do….as an example, anyone want to bet that babs streisand, john edwards, john kerry, bill clinton, etc, etc don’t just file 1040 EZ forms and pay all the taxes, not itemize for the deductions? yea, thought not…
The Downing Street Memo? Oh brother. About the only people that believe that dreck are the same people who believe every scene and word of dialogue in ‘JFK’ was 100% true.
you mean Johnson DID’NT order the assasination of JFK?
Yowza!
Demonizing liberals is all you’ve got. No principles that aren’t compromised. No politicians that aren’t corrupt, blind, or incompetent. Just blind faith that liberals are responsible for making Vietnam unwinnable, that liberals are responsible for making Bush lose Iraq, the respect and support of the world, etc.
Enjoy the electoral wilderness, boys. Blaming liberals is not going to rewrite history or turn back the clock, except in your angry, angry dreams.
It’s SO obvious that the Bush administration will either concoct some “act of war” from Iran, or blame some attack on Iran.
BUSH WANTS WAR WITH IRAN.
Did you read that? They WANT war, and at Israel’s behest.
The unholy alliance of neo-con warmongering, defense contractor profiteering and righ-wing religous zealots in America and Israel determined to wipe out the Muslim infidels.
I feel sick
What do you mean “believe”? It’s not a fucking conspiracy theory, it’s a demonstrable record of a meeting. Jesus Christ, Jay, there’s something wrong with you.
anyone want to bet that babs streisand, john edwards, john kerry, bill clinton, etc, etc don’t just file 1040 EZ
I.
Don’t.
Care.
yea starky, I am sick that the democrat party is hoping for defeat in Iraq too.
Looking forward to your prognostication though. I know your leftist fellow-travelers made similiar claims about OBL being found “right before the election” too…
Oh, heh, your tinfoil hat is starting to come off….
LOL
No-one said it was a certainty, but no-one would have been surprised had such a thing happened, given that the Republicans did it once before in 1980.
Another conservative talking point debunked. Something tells me it won’t make the Free Republic or Drudge, though.
“Scooter Libby told Judy Miller, told Judy Miller, that it was the vice president‘s inquiry about a uranium deal in Africa that led to Joe Wilson‘s trip. This is the first time we‘ve heard out of the vice president‘s office, even secondhand, an admission, a confession that that trip was because of a question raised by the veep, not because Mrs. Wilson, Valerie Plame, thought her husband needed a junket.”
yea starky, I am sick that the democrat party is hoping for defeat in Iraq too.
What’s there to hope for? Bush is doing a fine job of mucking it up on his own.
The DEMOCRATIC Party, for the love of God it’s called the DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
“The Downing Street Memo? Oh brother. About the only people that believe that dreck are the same people who believe every scene and word of dialogue in ‘JFK’ was 100% true.”
Right up there with those 16 words in the state of the union. That seems a fair standard- whattaya think, asshat?
Jay, when you put together that list of Bush Iraqi WMD claims that were true, you can say things weren’t debunked. Every claim was shown to rely on unreliable witnesses, forged documents, wild speculation, falsehoods, associations, and nothing. Aluminum tubes, lawn mower engines, playstations, ice cream trucks, doctored photos all promoted by Bush as proof positive that Hussein had WMDs. All false, all junk, all cooking the books. So much of what Bush & Co. claimed was untrue and/or ridiculous that believing he was sincere is the moonbat conspiracy theory.
Wow, I forgot about the playstations. Oh my god! You don’t think those are in the hands of the Syrians — or worse — the Iranians now, do you?!?!? Ahmedinajad could be playing Guitar Hero! Imagine the consequences if he unlocks the secrets of FREE BIRD!!!!
Pedro, the Khmer Rouge over threw the pathetically weak “stong men” we installed in Cambodia. Then we (the USA) supported the Khmer Rouge when Vietnam invaded and over threw that government.
what year was that?
Not 1975…
Hey, Pedro. This is from that site you linked to.
“Yet despite the months of airstrikes, the bombings did little to curb NVA activities. On the contrary, communist forces crept further and further into Cambodia. The US bombers followed suit. Significant populations of Cambodian peasants were now at risk, though no one knows how many of them were killed during the campaign. And the Khmer Rouge, previously a weak guerrilla force run by disenfranchised leftist politicians, grew in the wake of the bombings, as each attack on Cambodian land legitimized their virulent hatred of Sihanouk.” (emphasis mine).
Hmmm… US military action on a sovereign nation increased the enemy’s strength. Brilliant.
Also: “The US invasion had pushed the violence even further into Cambodia, and now Lon Nol literally was begging for help, for his army was too weak to save itself.”
Then: “as far as the Nixon administration was concerned, the Khmer Rouge were a puppet militia of the Hanoi government - if the war with Hanoi could be settled, the civil war in Cambodia would end with it. It was with this logic in mind that the US signed the Paris Peace Accords with Hanoi on January 27, 1973. US troops would leave Vietnam, Vietnamese troops would leave Cambodia and a cease-fire would take effect between North and South Vietnam.”
So, according to the site you linked to, the Nixon administration totally screwed the pooch in Cambodia and then hoped that the “puppet militia” would dissolve with the end of the war in Vietnam.
So… How exactly are the “leftists” to blame? Seems to me the main reason that the Khmer Rouge came to power was because of a war-mongering administration’s misguided illegal invasion of a sovereign country.
Sounds familiar.
holy-crap..!
ND are you blaming the nixon administration for MAKING the KR kill millions?
This is classic liberal talking-out of-both sides of -your ass.
“Yea, see…we MADE you leave vietnam, cause like, it was wrong….but then you LEFT and like, made the KR kill all those people…”
You guys are morons….no doubt about it…
And just for clarity, those murders were EXACTLY why we kept saying the commies were murderous thugs, while the great unwashed leftists were busy chanting “Ho-Ho-Ho chi minh!”
I’m just waiting for an aging, botox’ed jane fonda to climb into a burkha and head to the Hindu Kush trying to put on a show for the few remaining AQ operatives…..
Pedro,
I never said that Nixon “made” the KR kill millions. I said that the site you linked to says that he enabled the Khmer Rouge to come to power.
Did you even read the site yourself?
Plus, the site you linked to says that Nixon thought that if he ended the war in Vietnam, the civil war in Cambodia would end with it.
That wasn’t me saying that, it was the site you linked to.
“And just for clarity, those murders were EXACTLY why we kept saying the commies were murderous thugs…”
How many people in Phnom Penh died as a direct result of the refugee overcrowding? How many people died in the thousands upon thousands of B-52 bombing runs?
I’m not saying that Pol Pot wasn’t a murderous shitbag, but if you’re suggesting that Nixon’s administration was innocent in all of that, then you’re a bigger dumbass than even I gave you credit for.
And seriously, a Jane Fonda reference? Does that still cut it as biting political discourse down at the old folks’ home?
Classic.
Whether it’s dishonesty, incompetence or a combination of the two, Bush’s relationship with the truth over the past four years has ruined his own credibility and that of country he is supposed to be leading.
The only way to fix that is for him and Cheney to resign and make way for different leadership.
Won’t happen of course, which means things will only get worse.