Sorry to be so late. I was only asking (semi snarkily, true) but: Good point re Hoover/Carter And I do think most observers would actually rate Hoover as the worst. I should have argued ‘worst modern pres’ (IMO).

As oppsed to this.

If you go back and re-read what I wrote, you’ll see I mention the use of proxies by Syria and Iran. That is not the same as a direct attack by either state, which would trigger a massive response from both Israel and the U.S. Face it, Israel is armed to the teeth both conventionally and with nuclear weapons. Add the U.S. to that mix and you’d be crazy to attack directly. It has now been something like 34 years since any major player has tried to launch a significant offensive. Israel, on the other hand, has invaded Lebanon twice with the aid of U.S. military hardware.

“Israel is not a theocracy.”

Agreed, though I believe there may be evidence that Israeli Palestinians are not afforded equal treatment (though there are Arabs from other regions, the majority identify themselves as Palestinian). I need to research this more

“If group A does something and group B does the same thing and people only attack group A it is safe to assume they are attacking the people and not their actions.”

To what are you referring, all the acts of terrorism perpetrated against Israel, or the oppressive acts by Israel against the Palestinians? For decades Israel has been given a blank check to do as it pleased where its own security was concerned. now, however, it seems that hard line elements in the government have often gone too far, particularly in regards to the West Bank and Gaza. Some people, myself included, think that is unacceptable. That doesn’t mean I believe that Hamas, or Hezbollah, or anyone else who attempts to undermine the region should be allowed to act with impunity. It is all too easy in circumstances like this to have both sides take the wrong position. I also believe that much of the criticism of Israel comes from a frustration that they are themselves working against their own best interests.

For those who think that Hamas would never recognize Israel, Khaled Suleiman, a senior Hamas member, actually has actually come out and said that the Hamas movement is ready to recognize agreements signed with Israel, and in fact recognize Israel itself, but only within the ’67 borders. It is well known that there are several factions within Hamas moving in different directions. The hardliners are well known for their refusal to recognize Israel, but the more moderate members, particularly those who pushed for Hamas to become a political organization, as opposed to a more underground insurgency, were pushing for a more conciliatory approach. These moderate factions are routinely undermined by Israel’s often disproportionate responses to militant provocation. This is what I mean when I say Israel holds the key to moving peace forward. They need to work toward undermining public support for groups like Hezbollah and militant Hamas. Complete withdrawal from the occupied territories would strip radicals of a major pr tool and it’s not like Israel couldn’t march right back in if things went horribly wrong. Israel needs to take some hits to establish itself as a fair and impartial player in this game in the hope of securing broader trust among neighboring Arab communities. Call it “draining the swamp” if you will. That’s a tall order but it’s not like hammering the impoverished populations of the West Bank or Lebanon (or economically isolating Gaza) is working.

Of course, GW is lending a helping hand (I gotta throw something in to rile the wingers).

Just kidding.

Carter apologized for this sentence, saying it was “stupidly worded”. If he were less of a gentleman he would have told the truth: it was worded in a way that failed to render it immune from distortion by the right-wing smear machine. It’s the Kerry joke all over again.

Carter has apologized, and explained what he really meant, but that’s not enough for the haters.

Carter is thoughtful, conscientious, compassionate, and is capable of admitting error. No wonder people like Dugger and Hedley hate him so much.

I also think it’s rich to be lectured on anti-semitism by the same sort of people belonged to segregated clubs and fraternities in previous decades (and many still do).

It’s rich to be lectured on anti-semitism by pseudo-Christians whose rabid support of Israel is based on the belief that a reconstituted Israel will hasten the second coming (and the destruction or conversion of all the Jews).

Our relationship with Israel is strictly one sided

Then you don’t know much.

Israel provides intelligence, joint weapons research, and advanced military equipment to the US.

Additionally, Israel is involved globally in military affairs (both exports and advice).

I.e., bet there aren’t alot of interracial marriages among Klan members.

That’s because so many Anti-Zionists are Anti-Semitic.

Are you kidding me? Who do you think fund terrorist attacks agains Israel?

“if you are saying opponents see Israel as rich. Agree. ”

This one is correct.

“I’m against israel because I’m against the whole idea of a theocracy”

Israel is not a theocracy. Muslims, Christians, and even Atheists have the same rights as religious Jews. (Remember, a quarter of self-proclaimed Jews are atheists.)

“King David Hotel”

King David Hotel was being used as the British military HQ at the time. If that doesn’t make it a valid military target, then nothing is.

“No it isn’t. It’s criticism.”

If group A does something and group B does the same thing and people only attack group A it is safe to assume they are attacking the people and not their actions.

I think it is a stretch to call that anti-semitism.
The “We must destroy Israel”, yeah, that’s more clear cut.

if they could do the social and charitable stuff without the blowing up markets stuff

Yeah, that pesky “We must destroy Israel” charter keeps getting in the way.

To what end?

The Palestinians should not sit back,

Agreed. Every sane person on earth needs to denounce terrorism in all its form and wherever it may be.