Comments on: Screwy http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/ Like Kryptonite To Stupid Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:12:30 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Dugger http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55937 Dugger Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:11:54 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55937 Hedley OK. Quaker South duros Their attitudes Hedley

OK.

Quaker

South

duros

Their attitudes

]]> By: Hedley http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55936 Hedley Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:46:49 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55936 Dugger, I am not disagreeing with you. Simply stating that jurors cannot be removed via peremptory challenge for race alone -- there must be some other factor. Dugger, I am not disagreeing with you. Simply stating that jurors cannot be removed via peremptory challenge for race alone — there must be some other factor.

]]> By: Quaker in a Basement http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55935 Quaker in a Basement Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:02:45 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55935 <em>No, but I am claiming that politics and the coverage thereof has become pervasive and that when a highly visible political person is tried in or by a heavily one sided opposing political constiuency,the likelihood of a fair trial is remote.</em> If the rights of the accused can't be guaranteed under a unified system of jurisprudence, then partition is the only solution. You guys want the north or south? No, but I am claiming that politics and the coverage thereof has become pervasive and that when a highly visible political person is tried in or by a heavily one sided opposing political constiuency,the likelihood of a fair trial is remote.

If the rights of the accused can’t be guaranteed under a unified system of jurisprudence, then partition is the only solution.

You guys want the north or south?

]]> By: Duros62 http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55934 Duros62 Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:01:13 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55934 <i>Future bias is never provable, but potential jurors are dismissed for bias.</i>I mean Democrats swear almost universally, don't they, that Bush lied? ROTFL. Most folks in the reality-based community do. Future bias is never provable, but potential jurors are dismissed for bias.I mean Democrats swear almost universally, don’t they, that Bush lied?

ROTFL.
Most folks in the reality-based community do.

]]> By: Dugger http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55933 Dugger Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:50:50 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55933 hedley It would then get down to what constitutes 'proof'. Future bias is never provable, but potential jurors are dismissed for bias. Certainly if we took a jury made up of only NRA members and tried say Chuck Schumer for whatever, I doubt his backers would accept that - but I bet the % of Democrats in the NRA is not much diffrent than the number of black Rs. Quaker. No, but I am claiming that politics and the coverage thereof has become pervasive and that when a highly visible political person is tried in or by a heavily one sided opposing political constiuency,the likelihood of a fair trial is remote. I mean Democrats swear almost universally, don't they, that Bush lied? hedley

It would then get down to what constitutes ‘proof’. Future bias is never provable, but potential jurors are dismissed for bias.

Certainly if we took a jury made up of only NRA members and tried say Chuck Schumer for whatever, I doubt his backers would accept that – but I bet the % of Democrats in the NRA is not much diffrent than the number of black Rs.

Quaker.

No, but I am claiming that politics and the coverage thereof has become pervasive and that when a highly visible political person is tried in or by a heavily one sided opposing political constiuency,the likelihood of a fair trial is remote.
I mean Democrats swear almost universally, don’t they, that Bush lied?

]]> By: Duros62 http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55932 Duros62 Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:52:22 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55932 As fair as FOX. As fair as FOX.

]]> By: Quaker in a Basement http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55931 Quaker in a Basement Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:52:35 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55931 Dugger, are you claiming that Scooter can only get a fair trial with a jury of Republicans? Dugger, are you claiming that Scooter can only get a fair trial with a jury of Republicans?

]]> By: Duros62 http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55930 Duros62 Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:52:14 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55930 <i>I was going to say that ...</i> Good thing you didn't, then. I was going to say that …

Good thing you didn’t, then.

]]> By: Hedley http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55929 Hedley Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:46:15 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55929 Dugger, the defense would be required to prove that at a hearing. Dugger, the defense would be required to prove that at a hearing.

]]> By: Dugger http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55928 Dugger Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:24:09 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55928 hedley It wouldn't be on race - but on political ideology - which overlaps race in his case. hedley

It wouldn’t be on race – but on political ideology – which overlaps race in his case.

]]> By: Hedley http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55927 Hedley Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:09:23 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55927 The Supreme Court ruled in Batson v. Kentucky that jurors cannot be stricken solely on race, without other valid cause. The Supreme Court ruled in Batson v. Kentucky that jurors cannot be stricken solely on race, without other valid cause.

]]> By: Dugger http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55926 Dugger Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:50:02 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55926 I think August is right. Blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic - probably the most faithful political constituency the Party has. So when there is a highly publiciczed trial concerning key figures in the oppositon party...... I think August is right. Blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic – probably the most faithful political constituency the Party has. So when there is a highly publiciczed trial concerning key figures in the oppositon party……

]]> By: JWG http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55925 JWG Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:41:42 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55925 <blockquote>In a city where blacks outnumber whites more than 2-to-1, the jury has 10 whites and two blacks. Two of the alternates are black.</blockquote> Wouldn't a better report have told us the proportion of the jury pool to begin with? Did the jury pool match the demographics of the city? What is the purpose of this statement without context?

In a city where blacks outnumber whites more than 2-to-1, the jury has 10 whites and two blacks. Two of the alternates are black.

Wouldn’t a better report have told us the proportion of the jury pool to begin with? Did the jury pool match the demographics of the city?

What is the purpose of this statement without context?

]]> By: Noodle http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55924 Noodle Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:26:51 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55924 As I understand it, DC's pretty terrible about following up on jury subpoenas, so it's very easy for people to ignore them. As a result you're going to have a disproportionate number of professionals who have the time, the economic security and (perhaps?) the cultural inclination (acquired in their ports of origin) to show up for jury duty. Most of those people are going to be from the overwhelming white-ness of Northwest. As I understand it, DC’s pretty terrible about following up on jury subpoenas, so it’s very easy for people to ignore them. As a result you’re going to have a disproportionate number of professionals who have the time, the economic security and (perhaps?) the cultural inclination (acquired in their ports of origin) to show up for jury duty. Most of those people are going to be from the overwhelming white-ness of Northwest.

]]> By: August J. Pollak http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55923 August J. Pollak Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:56:26 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55923 In the voir dire, attorneys are allowed to make "premptory challenges" to jurors, meaning they can strike them from the pool without question or argument. If the defense determined that black men would be more likely to find Libby guilty, that's almost definitely why it happened- especially since, as you noted yourself, the city is majority black, and African-American men are the highest demographic percentage of voters most likely to oppose Bush/Cheney's political policies. Not saying I agree with that policy or the attorney's strategies, but you asked how, and that's pretty much why. In the voir dire, attorneys are allowed to make “premptory challenges” to jurors, meaning they can strike them from the pool without question or argument. If the defense determined that black men would be more likely to find Libby guilty, that’s almost definitely why it happened- especially since, as you noted yourself, the city is majority black, and African-American men are the highest demographic percentage of voters most likely to oppose Bush/Cheney’s political policies.

Not saying I agree with that policy or the attorney’s strategies, but you asked how, and that’s pretty much why.

]]> By: jerry http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55922 jerry Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:38:39 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55922 When I heard the jury pool was mostly white, mostly government and/or press, I first thought of Runaway Jury, which is to say that the jury selection computers had been hacked. When I heard the jury pool was mostly white, mostly government and/or press, I first thought of Runaway Jury, which is to say that the jury selection computers had been hacked.

]]> By: MrSparkle http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55921 MrSparkle Tue, 23 Jan 2007 06:26:59 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55921 Hey Ollie, don't you remember that so many potential jurors were weeded out because <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/16/AR2007011600145.html" rel="nofollow">they didn't trust Dick Cheney</a>? In this day and age, it's hard to find someone who doesn't mistrust that man already. Hey Ollie, don’t you remember that so many potential jurors were weeded out because they didn’t trust Dick Cheney? In this day and age, it’s hard to find someone who doesn’t mistrust that man already.

]]> By: James E. Powell http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55920 James E. Powell Tue, 23 Jan 2007 05:47:52 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55920 How many African-Americans were in the venire, the pre-selection group of potential jurors? A number of people get selected out of the venire by their answers to a questionnaire concerning length of time available, employer policies for leave of absence for jury service, child care obligations, etc. How many African-Americans were in the venire, the pre-selection group of potential jurors?

A number of people get selected out of the venire by their answers to a questionnaire concerning length of time available, employer policies for leave of absence for jury service, child care obligations, etc.

]]> By: ivyfree http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55919 ivyfree Tue, 23 Jan 2007 04:55:14 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55919 You're right. It was just a random thought. You’re right. It was just a random thought.

]]> By: Oliver Willis http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/01/22/screwy/#comment-55918 Oliver Willis Tue, 23 Jan 2007 04:44:26 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3507#comment-55918 That would imply that every black man in D.C. is in jail or has been in jail. That doesn't add up. That would imply that every black man in D.C. is in jail or has been in jail. That doesn’t add up.

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