ZAPATA
FROM THE AZTLAN GUERRILAZ

So while you and your wife enjoyed the rewards of her profession, you were equally hypocritical about insulting the people/industry that helped paid your bills.

Thaaaaaaat’s pedugger.

Always, but sometimes not to a level that ensures comprehension by every audience.

How exaclty does working at LA County medical center give you special insight into the desires of illegal immigrants? I could have told you that if you don’t speak englisgh you’ll have a hard time doing a lot of things in America whether it’s get medical care, apply for a job or shop at the grocery store.

One of my personal experiences was a story I wrote for LA Weekly on a controversial race relations program at Farifax High School put on by the National Conference of Christians and Jews in response to the LA riots. It was in the course of doing my reporting that I learned what an incredible burden it was for hispanic students who often had to act as translators for their parents in just about every aspect of otherwise routine endeavors like go gorcery shopping.

I learned two things from that experience: 1) It is difficult to get by in American without english, even in Los Angeles 2) Hispanics immigrants assimilate just like every other immigrant group that has every come to this country.

The first generation of immigrants still had difficulty adjusting to America and English but their children were fluent bilingual speakers and otherwise normal American high school kids.

Ultimately, your anecdotal “experience” does not prove your point that immmigrants “refuse” to leanr english and integrate into American society. If I’m to believe your story, you saw non-enligh speakers having difficulty getting medical care and decided that they were “refusing” to integrate into American society.

My experiences, however, are born out by the facts as seen in the Pew Center report: Immigrant parents who may not speak English nevertheless belong in this country but understand how important it is for their children to learn english.

Scan it and email it, if you want.

paul your hairsplitting as if there is no connection is epic, and really goes to the heart of your problems with concrete thinking.

Unfortunately in this discussion our personal history does make a difference, as I have experience is the things you claim knowledge of, while you, on the other hand, don’t. And in fact, your “profession” is supported by a group of hypocritical limosine liberals who rarely deign to even come in contact with the people whom you claim such concern for.

Shall I fax you my redacted ID card for LA County/USC medical center paul?

Now you ask if someone needs to know english to “integrate” into American society when the Pew Center question was this:

“Do immigrants have to speak English to say they are part of American society, or not?

Again those are two totally separate things.

Second, if you read my post above the nature of Chinatowns or Little Havanas as the first stop for many if not most immmigrants to this country, you would know that I, of course, believe you have to know English to “integrate” into American society. You do not, however, have to know English to consider yourself “part of American society.”

Chinatown and Little Havana are a part of American society whether the people there speak englsigh or not.

Finally, I rarely comment on your personal jabs at me, largely because I know you’re just trying to goad a response. Whenever you get called on your bullshit you go personal, attacking my profession, because you’ve got nowhere else to go.

But when you bring your own personal details into I just have to laugh. The
the details of your personal biography don’t mean shit to me because you are an anonymous poster who has a proven track record of dishonesty. Why the fuck should I or anyone believe anything you have to say about your personal biography?

I think there are very few immigrants–legal or not–who “refuse” to become integrated or “refuse” to learn English.

That was your original point, wasn’t it?

He decided to learn Spanish. Because it’s his job to make the people who come in for care feel, well, cared about.

It’s the worst of American impulses to assume that the world has to come to them exactly as you wish it would, instead of trying to meet it halfway. But then, these are the times we live in.

do you believe you need to speak english to be integrated into american society?

And just for the record…while paul is sipping lattes trying to decide which obscure video to review for his free newspaper, this particular compassionate conservative was working over one-hundred hour weeks in the wards of LA county treating scads of non-english speaking illegal aliens. And I can tell you, if you don’t speak english, you are going to have problems when you step into an american hospital and need care.

Where’s the contradiction? An immigrant can believe that they don’t have to speak English to say they are a partof American society while still believing that it is important to learn english.

If you are a legal immigrant who doesn’t speak english you can choose to live in neighborhoods where it is easy to get by without english. You are still a part of American society. BUt if you want to expand your horizons or income or education or whatever, it is still important to know english.

Here’s what you don’t get pedro, because you choose not to get it, just like you choose to believe hysterical facts without basis in reality .

Every generation of non-english speaking immigrants, legal or illegal, have formed tight knit neighborhoods in the cities they find themselves in as a safety and comfort zone for themselves. This is a very easy to understand sociological phenomenon. It doesn’t take a genius to recognize the existence of a Chinatown or a Little Seoul or Little Havana for what it is.

These places are the immigrants first stop in the new world. For some it may be the last part as they might find it difficult to learn english or they might simply be afraid of the wider American world (god only knows why with compassionate conservatives like Tancredo and yourself out there).

These people are, nevertheless, a part of American society whether you like it or not. They can live and work in these communities without learning much english but they will find it difficult to live and work elsewhere — hence the importance of learning english if you want to get ahead.

Again, these are simple realities. They are not hard to understand — unless you choose to misunderstand them. You are preferring to read as totally hostile something that every immigrant community in the history of US immigration has done. Why? Because you’re a dishonest fuck.

And if Pedro’s beliefs aren’t based on evidence, then what are they based on?

Bigotry.

Thanks for playing, Pedro. Will you ever debate in good faith?

Do you see any inherent contradiction in a study that shows that 41% of people don’t think english is necessary to be part of a society and 92% think teaching english to children is important.

Yea, and you are right about one thing…we will NEVER get good data about illegal alien’s opinions…cause you see, they are illegal. Hard to survey a group of outlaws with much scientific precision.

But tell me,would you hypothesize that illegal aliens, as a whole, would think english is MORE important that a group of naturalized citizens? See if you can wrap your little head around that and give an honest answer.

and “s”, my wife insulted the hollywood crowd as well, and since she worked with them everyday, she did a much better job than I. The hypocrisy in the hollywood limosine liberal is absolutely legend…

Pedro, not only did you take the 41 percent out of the context of the larger report which found that the majority of Latinos do think learning english is important, you distorted the question.

You said that the 41 percent referred to Hispanics who don’t believe that english is necessary to live in america.

The real question was:
“Do immigrants have to speak English to say they are part of American society, or not?:

Two totally different things. Not to mention the fact that the question was referring to immigrants, not “illegal” or “undocumented” immigrants. But you twisted it to suggest the question was referring to illegal immigrants, which is clearly wasn’t.

You also left out the result of the other question:

“How important is the goal of teaching English to the children of immigrant families?”

92 percent of Latinos responded “Very Important.”

You are a totally, dishonest fuck.