When faced with that sort of logic, ya, a lot of things become “inarguable.”

Sheesh what an idiot.

It must be a by-product of the “liberal” open-mindedness

LOL

What? When did I ever say that? If you weren’t suggesting that we should use Hussein’s behavior as a standard for our behavior, I will repeat my question, what the hell is your point?

The Iraq invasion has been a failure both on a practical standard and a moral one. You need to better understand the liberal point of view Pedro; sad that all you can see is your right-wing caricature of what we actually believe.

stop being deliberatly obtuse.

The fact that you DON’T think the US is holding itself to a higher standard demonstrates your tenuous grasp of reality.

Unfortunately, since most liberals live in some happy, pink land with nothing but wine and roses…they believe that the only standard that the US should live up to is perfection. And if you can’t achieve perfection then everyone should just take their toys and go home.

There is a word for that sort of a mindset.

Childlike….

What exactly is your point? Are you suggesting that we base our policies now on what Hussein did then? Are you suggesting that we should adopt Hussein’s moral system as the moral measure of our own actions in Iraq? Which is to say, as long we don’t open prisons for children or kill a million people in the next ten years, then everything is okay? Are you suggesting that since anyting is better than life under Hussein than any level of violence and horror is now acceptable?

I think that the United States of America should hold itself to a higher standard than that, for godssakes.

Of course NO ONE here will even mention the part about child prisons that even the traitor Ritter acknowledges but refuses to expose to the light of day…he’s a real hero that Ritter

The best estimate we have on Iraqi civilian deaths is the Johns Hopkins study, using the same methodology as we used to estimate deaths in Darfur, in pre-invasion Iraq, and every other war-torn area where records are unavailable.

600,000 deaths as a result of Bush’s invasion. And no right-winger has a shred of logic to rebut it. Just blind faith in the Iraq Body Count website, without apparently even caring to know what that site even does. Pathetic.

Afterthought. I guess you could add about 3000 US/coaliton casualties to the ‘Bush’ total. Would drive the Bush average toa round 1280 vresus 1200 (I mistakenly said 2000 in earlier post).

Yes and Iraq Body Count for post Bush war; and just many multiple sites for total under Saddam. There are estimates higher and lower both sides. Of course, nobody knows the true totals – for sure. All are best estimates. My point would be the magnitude of the diffrence overcomes estimate variances.

From Dr. P’s Scott Ritter interview:

Some on the right call you the new Jane Fonda, and joke about what you’ll call your exercise video.

(Long pause?) Those on the right who say that disgrace the 12 years of service I gave to my country as a Marine. I love my country. I’ll put my record of service up against anyone, bar none. If they want to have an exercise video then why don’t they come here and say it to my face and I’ll give ‘em an exercise video, which will be called, “Scott Ritter Kicking Their Ass.”

Who wants to put money on the table that Pedro won’t take him up on the challenge?

More from the interview:

In 1998, you said Saddam had “not nearly disarmed.” Now you say he doesn’t have weapons of mass destruction (WMD). Why did you change your mind?

First, you have to love the distortion inherent in the question, conflating Ritter’s assertion that Saddam had not disarmed with the argument that Saddam has WMD’s. Unless you consider all weapons WMDs, of course.

I have never given Iraq a clean bill of health! Never! Never! I’ve said that no one has backed up any allegations that Iraq has reconstituted WMD capability with anything that remotely resembles substantive fact. To say that Saddam’s doing it is in total disregard to the fact that if he gets caught he’s a dead man and he knows it.

I am more aware than any UN official that Iraq has set up covert procurement funds to violate sanctions. This was true in 1997-1998, and I’m sure its true today. Of course Iraq can do this. The question is, has someone found that what Iraq has done goes beyond simple sanctions violations? We have tremendous capabilities to detect any effort by Iraq to obtain prohibited capability. The fact that no one has shown that he has acquired that capability doesn’t necessarily translate into incompetence on the part of the intelligence community. It may mean that he hasn’t done anything.

So Ritter was (and presumably still is) an advocate for a rational, measured response and likes to base his actions on evidence. The children’s prisons, by his own admission, were horrible. However, he also clearly believed that to bring such evidence to light would be inflammatory and counter productive. By leveraging sanctions and inspections he seemed to think we could do more to improve Iraq than through outright bombing. Not that we weren’t bombing Iraq for years before the war and watching as sanctions fell most heavily on the poorest Iraqis, causing an explosion in the death rate for children (up to 1,000,000).

Through our destabilizing invasion we have freed children from the fear of dying in a state sanctioned prison…well, except for Abu Ghraib…so they can live and play in sun…just watch out for the IEDs and roving militias…and sleep securely in their homes…Haditha what now?
Lucky

This is what freedom looks like

The nauseating thing about the above link is that it is one of the most tame I could find. Just Google for Iraq and child casualties and you’ll find plenty worse. It absolutely boggles my mind that anyone can claim this represents an improvement.

Boy, those wingers sure are a compassionate bunch.

…holy sh*t…

The “emboldening the terrorists” canard still out there? Do any of its proponents ever think that now the terrorists realize that if you want to weaken the American military all you have to do is fight them to a stalemate in stupid wars like this one, and their leaders will be too proud and delusional to get them out?

You wrote:
” We’ve opened this box of hell. Whatever follows can be traced back to the day–prior to 9-11–that George Bush decided to invade Iraq.”

The mass graves..? The use of chemical weapons? The prisons designed to torture children? All before Bush “opened this box of hell…”

The mass graves, the chemical weapons, the torture, the prisons, did not follow our invasion. They preceded it.

If you wish to change the subject, do. But include me out.