Comments on: Hearts & Minds

By: BD

BD — Thu, 23 Nov 2006 16:38:04 +0000

Quaker -

Please, spare me the “botched reply” story. fd10801 replied to you, he meant the reply to be to you, and that’s that. There is certainly nothing in his background to indicate that it was a reading slip up.

By: Quaker in a Basement

Quaker in a Basement — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:50:23 +0000

Quaker, you don’t really believe that Kerry was the first one to suggest that, do you? See also Charles Rangel, et. al.

BD, I think this one should have been addressed to you.

By: Oliver Willis

Oliver Willis — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:38:59 +0000

Yeah, the Iraqis don’t hate us. Those guns they keep shooting at our guys are clearly packed with love bullets.

By: Oliver Willis

Oliver Willis — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:38:03 +0000

Pardon the harsh language but this reminds me of the famous Chris Rock routine of “niggas vs. black people”:

“Niggas want credit for something they’re supposed to do… A nigga would say some shit like, “I take care of my kids.” You’re supposed to, you dumb motherfucker!”

By: fd10801

fd10801 — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:34:08 +0000

BD – I believe the Army has discovered that some of its members were once gang members (I may be wrong). This is not the same as recruiting street gang members.
Besides, the real story here is that Oliver Willis is trying to imply that a) The Iraqis hate us, and 2) That incidents like that one are the reason why.

By: Oliver Willis

Oliver Willis — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:31:58 +0000

What folks like Marty don’t seem to get is that our actions have repercussions. Unlike so much of the public here, people in Iraq have long memories. Abu Ghraib may have been a PR crisis for the GOP’s 2004 election campaign but it has damaged practically every effort we’ve made to have diplomatic inroads into the middle east. Conservatives complain that the bad stuff gets covered, but the bad stuff helps to increase terrorism. One car bomb negates ten school openings. One asshole soldier videotaping the taunting of a kid damages other toys-for-tots type programs because to this kid this may dictate what he sees about the Americans who came to his country.

By: fd10801

fd10801 — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:30:29 +0000

Quaker, you don’t really believe that Kerry was the first one to suggest that, do you? See also Charles Rangel, et. al.

And, please, spare me the “botched one liner” story. He said what he said, he meant what he said, and that’s that. There is certainly nothing in his background to indicate it was a slip of the tongue.

By: BD

BD — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:30:16 +0000

The army has been recruiting from urban street gangs to make quota. Besides the lowered standards of morality on display in the Iraqi street, The Gangster Disciples who make it back have just been trained in advanced urban warfare that they can readily apply back here.

The ugly side of “support the troops” propaganda is that when shit like this happens it’s hard to come back to the gray area. You either get blowhards who insist that no matter how bad it was it wasn’t really that bad or you get people who get called weenies for not being said blowhards.

By: Marty

Marty — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:58:29 +0000

BD- You’re correct. It doesn’t help that these idiots would do something so seemingly callous with the potential to destroy good will that others have worked hard to gain.

I am sure that a very vast majority of soldiers would condemn the behaviour, and if it is found out who these people are, they will be rightfully punished.

By: BD

BD — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:42:52 +0000

fd – Wow, still playing that old chestnut? Surely you can do better than to dredge up the botched one-liner and (its deliberate misinterpretation) from an increasingly irrelevant also-ran.

By: Quaker in a Basement

Quaker in a Basement — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:41:53 +0000

I don’t think our job in the United States is to cherry pick one video, and imply it’s representative.

Neither do I, fd.

But when the story of that young man circulates in Iraq, do you think anyone there will think it’s representative of Americans?

This is one of the problems with an occupation, whether it’s the U.S. in Iraq, Israel in Gaza, or China in Tibet. The bad acts of a few become emblematic of the occupier in the minds of the occupied.

By: BD

BD — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:39:37 +0000

Marty -

Keep in mind that the chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and that goes for public perception as well. We have marketed ourselves as the harbingers of freedom, democracy, and morality…that is, we have a consistent need to portray ourselves as heroes for our actions, no matter what they may be.

If any of the soldiers act counter to that marketing, it resonates louder throughout the world at large.

There are hundreds of Catholic priests and evangelical ministers who didn’t abuse altar boys and buy meth from gay prostitutes. Why do you think the relatively small percentage who did get such attention? It’s not because of the “hateful liberal media.”

By: fd10801

fd10801 — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:24:59 +0000

I don’t think our job in the United States is to cherry pick one video, and imply it’s representative.

What do I know? I’m just another of those poorly educated guys with no opportunities who went in the Army for that big money.

By: Marty

Marty — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:05:47 +0000

Yes, there will be a number of dickheads in any group of 140,000 people. But of course it wouldn't be you if you didn't highlight them. It's probably not our job to play with kids either. Or comfort kids either. I'm sure that there are far more noble soldiers in Iraq than you would care to highlight. But then again, you have no interest in them. It's always about what's worst about us that is most important to you.

By: Xanthippas

Xanthippas — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 04:48:49 +0000

Sad to say, but not everybody we send over there is a hero. Some of them are just assholes.