Grandstanding? Probably.

But race and class? I haven’t seen any remarks from Rangel that reflect a race- or class-based argument. Maybe you can provide some cites?

CS, It is not civility I am seeking. Made-up words like Rethug and Dimocrat call attention to the made-up word, not the argument behind them.

It is akin to typing in all caps or misspelling words.

If you want to say that Republicans are assholes then just say it.

You’re free to dismiss as you wish, Dave, and we are all free to call ‘em as we see ‘em. If you see fit to bestow politeness on the political party that has more or less run roughshod over our republic for the last twelve years, go right ahead.

Meekly turning the other cheek and tacitly granting legitimacy to lunatic, bullying quasi-fascism has led to 9/11 and the quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan. It has allowed the trashing of large segments of our constitution.

You don’t have to be too clever to call a spade a spade. But you are free, of course, to keep admonishing civility while Rome burns.

When I see a right-winger make a post using terms like Demon-crat or Dimocrat I immediately dismiss the poster as a loon.

We don’t need to use not-so-clever terms like Rethuglican to paint our opponents as dangerous and out of step. Our opponents do that themselves with their own policies.

OW, c’mon. Think this line over:

If the cause is just, and the reasoning righteous people will willingly sign up and put their lives on the line for their country…

Do you really believe that the thousands of people who are stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan right now signed up to be doing exactly what they’re doing? How does that pollyanna reasoning account for the massive deception and utter incompetence that are the foundation of both of those campaigns?

Colorado Dave is right. The Rethugs, led by the Bush cabal, have been strengthening the foundations of the U.S. as a police state. One of the most important steps to that police state would be a military that considers itself separate from and superior to the public it is supposed to serve.

Don’t kid yourself into thinking it can’t happen here, whether there’s a Dem or a Rethug in the White House. It’s the same sort of thing we elevated to an art form in Latin America (see School of the Americas). Toss in the recent vandalizing of our constitution; the steep growth curve and recent domestic deployment of mercenary firms; and the illegal detentions of both U.S. citizens and legal immigrants, and it becomes clear that those chickens are itching to come home to roost.

I think it is dangerous in a democracy for the military to become a caste. When the military begins to believe that the common citizen does not share their beliefs or values it becomes easier for the military to point those guns at the citizenry.

I was almost old enough to be subject to it during Vietnam. Old enough at any rate to have it enter my consciousness, “O wow, in a couple of years I could be drafted.”

In that sense I am against the draft, forcing people to fight, kill and die against their will seems to be absolutely wrong. Especially when the war in which they are killing and dying is so obviously wrong.

On the other there are compelling societal advantages to having a democracy’s military represent all facets of that society.

I come from a one-generation military family. My father joined the Air Corps prior to WWII and with the exception of a brief civilian stint after the war he was a career non-com until he retired in the ’70s. He joined in order to escape a small town rural life which he despised. He decided he loved the military and spent his life in it.

My father’s generation of military men had people from many diverse backgrounds who had originally entered the service either voluntarily or through the draft.

After a couple of decades of All Volunteer Army it seems as though we are almost creating a Guardian Class, something even akin to a caste. Some families serve in the military others do not.

I think it is dangerous in a democracy for the military to become a caste. When the military begins to believe that the common citizen does not share there beliefs or values it becomes easier for the military to point those guns at the citizenry.

In the ’60s the draft was de rigeur and our politicians (Democratic and Republican) marched our army into an unwinnable and ill-advised war.

Times have changed. I think had there been a draft in 2002 it would have been much more difficult, if not impossible, for Bush to pressure the Congress into approving his venture into Mesopotamia.

All this being said I think some allowance needs to be made for those who on moral grounds oppose military service. There is value to national service. At the very least if everyone had to spend the ages of 18 to 21 performing some type of national service it would keep people out of college until they were old enough to study and not just party.

We are a democracy and we should share both the bounty and the expense that goes into creating a democracy.

As far as a military draft goes, this bill is going down in flames… and we can point out that the Repugs who spent the last three years supporting this war are voting it down.

The volunteer army gets it’s recruits from the ghettos and depressed rural areas.

This is a myth.

The volunteer army gets it’s recruits from the ghettos and depressed rural areas.

Why do you hate your own people? It is good that poor minorities should be used for cannon fodder?

Another thing to consider: righties actually hate this idea more than progs do. Why? It would take the military out of the province of being the righties’ exclusive club that it has been for the past 30 years.

Please give it more thought.