Comments on: Election Day 2006 http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/ Like Kryptonite To Stupid Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:30:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.4 By: Duros62 http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48883 Duros62 Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:53:34 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48883 <i>But I would also doubt that, ultimately, the post Saddam death total would be as high as it is now..</i> And there it is. Your little boat has just run aground on the Shoals of Logic®. But I would also doubt that, ultimately, the post Saddam death total would be as high as it is now..

And there it is. Your little boat has just run aground on the Shoals of Logic®.

]]> By: Dugger http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48882 Dugger Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:04:33 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48882 That was a thought provoking post, Wilbur: a constrained Saddam would murder at a lower rate than the 'old' Saddam. Can't disagree with the basic premise. But I would also doubt that, ultimately, the post Saddam death total would be as high as it is now - if we 'stayed' the course for an equal number of years. That was a thought provoking post, Wilbur: a constrained Saddam would murder at a lower rate than the ‘old’ Saddam. Can’t disagree with the basic premise. But I would also doubt that, ultimately, the post Saddam death total would be as high as it is now – if we ‘stayed’ the course for an equal number of years.

]]> By: midderpidge http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48881 midderpidge Wed, 08 Nov 2006 07:42:13 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48881 Padlocks. Certainly not the act of an organized party. Definitely the act of an idiot juvenile individual. Compare that to pretending to be from the state election board and calling people up to tell them they are registered in another state and if they vote they will be criminally prosecuted. That's organized. Padlocks. Certainly not the act of an organized party. Definitely the act of an idiot juvenile individual.

Compare that to pretending to be from the state election board and calling people up to tell them they are registered in another state and if they vote they will be criminally prosecuted. That’s organized.

]]> By: Wilbur http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48880 Wilbur Wed, 08 Nov 2006 03:54:28 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48880 <i>Wilbur, OK. Why post 1991? As opposed to his entire career as leader of Iraq (and the death average derived therefrom).</i> Becase even if we did nothing different in 2003 Saddam would presumably still be contained, monitored, no-flyed, air-striked, at least as much as he had been since 1991, so the rate of murders he commits betweeen 2003-2006 would most likely be closer to the rate between 1991 and 2003 than it would be to the time before 1991 in which he was not contained. If the question is "would things have been as bad had Bush not invaded?" then that's what you have to look at. And of course, "doing nothing different" is not the only alternative to the Bush/Rumsfeld fiasco. Continued inspections, increased international pressure, even a competently planned and provisioned invasion might have reduced the 2003-2006 deaths (of both Iraqis and Americans) even further. Wilbur,

OK. Why post 1991? As opposed to his entire career as leader of Iraq (and the death average derived therefrom).

Becase even if we did nothing different in 2003 Saddam would presumably still be contained, monitored, no-flyed, air-striked, at least as much as he had been since 1991, so the rate of murders he commits betweeen 2003-2006 would most likely be closer to the rate between 1991 and 2003 than it would be to the time before 1991 in which he was not contained.

If the question is “would things have been as bad had Bush not invaded?” then that’s what you have to look at.

And of course, “doing nothing different” is not the only alternative to the Bush/Rumsfeld fiasco. Continued inspections, increased international pressure, even a competently planned and provisioned invasion might have reduced the 2003-2006 deaths (of both Iraqis and Americans) even further.

]]> By: Mike http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48879 Mike Wed, 08 Nov 2006 03:53:45 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48879 <i>Willing to give up their freedom so that the killing can be well organized by a government buearacracy.</i> The only people I've seen giving up their freedom recently are the Republican partisans who've tossed away rule of law, habeas corpus, freedom of assembly, the right to privacy and all checks and balances on the executive. They've cheered all these and want to toss freedom of speech along with it. Progressives have been the only ones fighting for freedom. <i> Cause I mean, there is NO difference between a state run prison designed to torture children in their parents </i> Right, Abu Ghraib reopened under new management, but with all the same methods our president fighting for the right to torture. Maybe you've heard this exchange with the president's former legal advisor: Cassel: If the president deems that he's got to torture somebody, <b>including by crushing the testicles of the person's child</b>, there is no law that can stop him? Yoo: No treaty Cassel: Also no law by Congress -- that is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo... Yoo: <b>I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.</b> Willing to give up their freedom so that the killing can be well organized by a government buearacracy.

The only people I’ve seen giving up their freedom recently are the Republican partisans who’ve tossed away rule of law, habeas corpus, freedom of assembly, the right to privacy and all checks and balances on the executive. They’ve cheered all these and want to toss freedom of speech along with it.

Progressives have been the only ones fighting for freedom.

Cause I mean, there is NO difference between a state run prison designed to torture children in their parents

Right, Abu Ghraib reopened under new management, but with all the same methods our president fighting for the right to torture. Maybe you’ve heard this exchange with the president’s former legal advisor:

Cassel: If the president deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?

Yoo: No treaty

Cassel: Also no law by Congress — that is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo…

Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.

]]> By: Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48878 Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy Wed, 08 Nov 2006 01:20:05 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48878 Angry about a half-million Iraqis who are dead, who only died for George Bush's idiotic roll of the dice? Yes, I am angry about that. Those of us who haven't mortgaged our souls to GOP power are still allowed to have feelings about Iraqis who are dying. Angry about a half-million Iraqis who are dead, who only died for George Bush’s idiotic roll of the dice? Yes, I am angry about that. Those of us who haven’t mortgaged our souls to GOP power are still allowed to have feelings about Iraqis who are dying.

]]> By: Rex Mundane http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48877 Rex Mundane Wed, 08 Nov 2006 00:21:21 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48877 <i>Rex, you're right. It must have been the Republicans padlocking the door of a Republican Senatorial candidate.</i>Yes. the same way it was Karl Rove who bugged Karl Rove's office. Honestly are you just not seeing the case I'm making and how easy it would havebeen to pull off? They did something that did no real damage to the place in order to make it look like they were attacked by those vicious, rabid democrats. Explain to me how thats impossible, and in an election where the republicans are poised to lose large, out of the realm of possibility Rex, you’re right. It must have been the Republicans padlocking the door of a Republican Senatorial candidate.Yes. the same way it was Karl Rove who bugged Karl Rove’s office. Honestly are you just not seeing the case I’m making and how easy it would havebeen to pull off? They did something that did no real damage to the place in order to make it look like they were attacked by those vicious, rabid democrats. Explain to me how thats impossible, and in an election where the republicans are poised to lose large, out of the realm of possibility

]]> By: Nimrod Gently http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48876 Nimrod Gently Wed, 08 Nov 2006 00:19:12 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48876 Sometimes I wish exit polls weren't all old bollock. Now is one of those times. Sometimes I wish exit polls weren’t all old bollock.

Now is one of those times.

]]> By: Hedley http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48875 Hedley Wed, 08 Nov 2006 00:16:19 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48875 Rex, you're right. It must have been the Republicans padlocking the door of a Republican Senatorial candidate. Dr, the only one who appears angry here is you. Of course, if the Democrats don't take both houses of Congress, I would expect that to change. Rex, you’re right. It must have been the Republicans padlocking the door of a Republican Senatorial candidate.

Dr, the only one who appears angry here is you. Of course, if the Democrats don’t take both houses of Congress, I would expect that to change.

]]> By: Rex Mundane http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48874 Rex Mundane Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:54:39 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48874 <i>Rex, explain the padlocks. Regardless it just shows that the "pure as the driven snow" Democrats are hardly above "dirty tricks."</i> What, are you fucking kidding me? How can you possibly be this dense without distorting gravity? I'm saying that theres no evidence that the democrats did anything. Things were dont, sure, but by who. Hm, I wonder... Well lets say it were the democrats. How fucking stupid is that, to do something that has no actual benefit for them, and in fact can only do harm by casting suspicions on them in this election? I now you think all people on that side of the aisle have mental defects grander than your own, but lets consider another possibility, one I was insinuation with my Karl Rove example. Given the severe unlikelyhood that democrats had keys to fit those locks that they could then break off, and the impracticality of it given other more simple solutions, like krazy glue or even chewing gum, and that the people in the office are far more likely to have such keys (or more easily duplicate them or whatever) and how nothing else at the scene of the crime can tie things to anyone in particular, let alone the democrats (any hardware store would stock that crap, ditship) it seems like its more likely the republicans doing something to themselves and then blaming the democrats for it. Thats what I'm saying. My question to you then is how, if all the "vandalism" there can be explained without incriminating the democrats (and again, there is no evidence that they were involved at all) how do you use that to demonstrate that the democrats pull dirty tricks regardless? Rex, explain the padlocks. Regardless it just shows that the “pure as the driven snow” Democrats are hardly above “dirty tricks.”
What, are you fucking kidding me? How can you possibly be this dense without distorting gravity?
I’m saying that theres no evidence that the democrats did anything. Things were dont, sure, but by who. Hm, I wonder… Well lets say it were the democrats. How fucking stupid is that, to do something that has no actual benefit for them, and in fact can only do harm by casting suspicions on them in this election? I now you think all people on that side of the aisle have mental defects grander than your own, but lets consider another possibility, one I was insinuation with my Karl Rove example. Given the severe unlikelyhood that democrats had keys to fit those locks that they could then break off, and the impracticality of it given other more simple solutions, like krazy glue or even chewing gum, and that the people in the office are far more likely to have such keys (or more easily duplicate them or whatever) and how nothing else at the scene of the crime can tie things to anyone in particular, let alone the democrats (any hardware store would stock that crap, ditship) it seems like its more likely the republicans doing something to themselves and then blaming the democrats for it. Thats what I’m saying.
My question to you then is how, if all the “vandalism” there can be explained without incriminating the democrats (and again, there is no evidence that they were involved at all) how do you use that to demonstrate that the democrats pull dirty tricks regardless?

]]> By: Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48873 Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:38:55 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48873 Dugger says that the half-million Iraqi deaths since 2003 are meaningless; and he wishes that they don't exist, so they don't, regardless of what social science's best guess tells us. However, deaths caused by Saddam, on the other hand, carry real moral weight, and should be thought about seriously by serious moral thinkers like Jonah Goldberg and Glenn Reynolds. Hedley, get a moral compass. The decisions of our president have led directly to the death of over half a million Iraqis. Direct your anger where it's deserved. Dugger says that the half-million Iraqi deaths since 2003 are meaningless; and he wishes that they don’t exist, so they don’t, regardless of what social science’s best guess tells us. However, deaths caused by Saddam, on the other hand, carry real moral weight, and should be thought about seriously by serious moral thinkers like Jonah Goldberg and Glenn Reynolds.

Hedley, get a moral compass. The decisions of our president have led directly to the death of over half a million Iraqis. Direct your anger where it’s deserved.

]]> By: frameone http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48872 frameone Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:23:13 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48872 "Why post 1991?" Here's the real question Dugger. In another thread you wrote this: <blockquote>The fact that Saddam's death total per year is higher is only a rejoinder to the exploitation of war deaths on this site by the left.</blockquote> So let me ask you, what happens to your support for the mission if and when the number tips the other way? According to the logic of your rejoinder, as soon as the number of Iraqis killed since the invasion surpasses those killed under Saddam, the mission will no longer be supportable. But Dugger, when we note the number of American and innocent Iraqi lives lost it is because every individual life counts and is precious. The death of a single American soldier or innocent Iraqi weighs heavily against its morality. Your rejoinder, however, erases the value of an individual life. Its logic would allow you to smugly blow off the deaths of a million people as "still less than Saddam" because in your comparison, individual living, breathing human beings don't matter. You just lumped them altogether, only to be acknowledged when their total deaths reaches some number you can't actually provide. The fact that you would willing support a mission right up until the number of dead Iraqis reaches some huge number plus one, is itself quite simply, nauseating. But what you are really saying is that the lives of individual soldiers or Iraqis don't have any value to you at all accept as part of some vast abstract aggregate which you yourself are unable to define. What a moral, principled fellow you are Dugger. You've just asserted a rationale for mass murder. “Why post 1991?”

Here’s the real question Dugger. In another thread you wrote this:

The fact that Saddam’s death total per year is higher is only a rejoinder to the exploitation of war deaths on this site by the left.

So let me ask you, what happens to your support for the mission if and when the number tips the other way?

According to the logic of your rejoinder, as soon as the number of Iraqis killed since the invasion surpasses those killed under Saddam, the mission will no longer be supportable.

But Dugger, when we note the number of American and innocent Iraqi lives lost it is because every individual life counts and is precious. The death of a single American soldier or innocent Iraqi weighs heavily against its morality.

Your rejoinder, however, erases the value of an individual life. Its logic would allow you to smugly blow off the deaths of a million people as “still less than Saddam” because in your comparison, individual living, breathing human beings don’t matter. You just lumped them altogether, only to be acknowledged when their total deaths reaches some number you can’t actually provide.

The fact that you would willing support a mission right up until the number of dead Iraqis reaches some huge number plus one, is itself quite simply, nauseating.

But what you are really saying is that the lives of individual soldiers or Iraqis don’t have any value to you at all accept as part of some vast abstract aggregate which you yourself are unable to define.

What a moral, principled fellow you are Dugger. You’ve just asserted a rationale for mass murder.

]]> By: Hedley http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48871 Hedley Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:22:28 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48871 Rex, explain the padlocks. Regardless it just shows that the "pure as the driven snow" Democrats are hardly above "dirty tricks." Dr., that is some imagination you have. To think you can tell all that from one post. You must be a trip in Vegas. Rex, explain the padlocks. Regardless it just shows that the “pure as the driven snow” Democrats are hardly above “dirty tricks.”

Dr., that is some imagination you have. To think you can tell all that from one post. You must be a trip in Vegas.

]]> By: Dugger http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48870 Dugger Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:48:46 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48870 Wilbur, OK. Why post 1991? As opposed to his entire career as leader of Iraq (and the death average derived therefrom). White Whale, Do you know what gerrymandering means? Have no idea what you are talking about. I'm talking about this piece of crap district:http://gingrey.house.gov/District/ Wilbur,

OK. Why post 1991? As opposed to his entire career as leader of Iraq (and the death average derived therefrom).

White Whale,

Do you know what gerrymandering means? Have no idea what you are talking about. I’m talking about this piece of crap district:http://gingrey.house.gov/District/

]]> By: Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48869 Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:46:14 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48869 the opportunity, that is. the opportunity, that is.

]]> By: Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48868 Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:45:42 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48868 It comes from the Johns Hopkins survey, Pedro, the same way we estimate Darfur deaths, for example. Of course, you knew that, but you couldn't pass up to argue dishonorably. It comes from the Johns Hopkins survey, Pedro, the same way we estimate Darfur deaths, for example. Of course, you knew that, but you couldn’t pass up to argue dishonorably.

]]> By: Duros62 http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48867 Duros62 Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:30:34 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48867 Pedro, shut the fuck up. Pedro, shut the fuck up.

]]> By: dr pedro http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48866 dr pedro Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:24:46 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48866 hey "doc", If you are going to make up numbers, why not "millions of Iraqi dead"...shoot, since you are using your imagination why not"millions of iraqi's garrotted by GWB, Rummy and Condi with mint-flavored dental floss..." I mean, give it a little PIZAZZ..... hey “doc”,

If you are going to make up numbers, why not “millions of Iraqi dead”…shoot, since you are using your imagination why not”millions of iraqi’s garrotted by GWB, Rummy and Condi with mint-flavored dental floss…” I mean, give it a little PIZAZZ…..

]]> By: WhiteWhale http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48865 WhiteWhale Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:23:48 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48865 Wow. This thread should be the Iraq thread. I voted today in Georgia and my election official stated that there are no paper ballets and that "why would there be a problem?" My polling place was the most unorganized operation I have witnessed in awhile. Next time I am going to be "out of town" so I can write an absentee ballet. Dugger, As for Gingery looney ass, I would love to hear evidence of his campaign being railroaded. I have met him several times in personal settings(2 weddings and a couple of parties) and he is more of a moron than he appears on C-SPAN. Please enlighten me on how this ass-hat has helped Georgia in any way? Wow. This thread should be the Iraq thread.

I voted today in Georgia and my election official stated that there are no paper ballets and that “why would there be a problem?” My polling place was the most unorganized operation I have witnessed in awhile. Next time I am going to be “out of town” so I can write an absentee ballet.
Dugger,
As for Gingery looney ass, I would love to hear evidence of his campaign being railroaded. I have met him several times in personal settings(2 weddings and a couple of parties) and he is more of a moron than he appears on C-SPAN. Please enlighten me on how this ass-hat has helped Georgia in any way?

]]> By: Rex Mundane http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/11/07/election-day-2006/#comment-48864 Rex Mundane Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:21:35 +0000 http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=3087#comment-48864 <a href="http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/11/07/11670.aspx" rel="nofollow">More on the Kean Story</a> Think this is bogus. Kean's Spokeswoman is saying its Menendez but can't prove a damn bit. Says there were keys broken off in the locks, so how did Menendez's people get keys that fit those locks then? Needed to be threaded the same way to even get them in the holes, or am I missing a part of that? Might have got a locksmith but fuck it, wouldnt chewing gum have been easier? This is like that time Rove found that bug in his office the day before a debate when working on Bill Clement's campaign, turns out the bug had a battery life of an hour or two, making it impractical. It was a lie designed to make it look like the Democrats were playing dirty. So is this, I imagine. More on the Kean Story
Think this is bogus. Kean’s Spokeswoman is saying its Menendez but can’t prove a damn bit. Says there were keys broken off in the locks, so how did Menendez’s people get keys that fit those locks then? Needed to be threaded the same way to even get them in the holes, or am I missing a part of that? Might have got a locksmith but fuck it, wouldnt chewing gum have been easier? This is like that time Rove found that bug in his office the day before a debate when working on Bill Clement’s campaign, turns out the bug had a battery life of an hour or two, making it impractical. It was a lie designed to make it look like the Democrats were playing dirty. So is this, I imagine.

]]>