Ted Haggard Cops A Plea
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Less than 24 hours ago right-wing evangelical leader Ted Haggard was claiming the allegations he engaged in homosexual sex with a prostitute and used drugs was an election year attack. Now he has admitted that at least some of the charges are true.
After a day of whirlwind controversy surrounding New Life Church and its leader Ted Haggard, who went on administrative leave earlier Thursday, the acting Senior Pastor, Ross Parsley tells KKTV 11 News that Pastor Haggard has admitted to some of the indiscretions claimed by a Denver man.
Thursday morning, Mike Jones went on a Denver radio talk show and said Pastor Haggard paid him for sex over the past 3 years. Jones also claims Haggard did drugs with him. Pastor Parsley says Haggard admitted that some of the allegations are true, but not all of them. The church is not saying what Haggard admitted to.
Look, these guys are all aboard the money train, and the people who follow them are being used again and again. I don’t have any great hope for people who are a part of the religious far right to show anything resembling common sense, but when their leaders have the kind of influence over the rest of us that they do – they should be nailed to the wall for the hypocrites and crooks that they are.
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© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
I’m with Dawkins, I don’t believe in spooks and magic. Not only is Jesus a turd, he’s a myth too. Many of his followers, especially the ones that are conservative and post here regularly, are brain damaged. Apparently the more strident ones like to bugger each other and anyone else they can get their hands on. Age is not a factor. Sex may or may not be.
Now y’all be good prols, eat your food, buy your shit, believe your myths and do what you are told.
I don’t have any great hope for people who are a part of the religious far right to show anything resembling common sense
Good grief. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
It is amazing Oliver, how you take the actions of several and apply it to all. Know what that is? It’s called bigotry.
My brother in law when he was nineteen was jumped and beaten up by three black guys. As a result, he’s of the mindset that pretty much all blacks are thugs and criminals – worthless basically.
It is possible for you to criticize the actions of the people involved without casting aspersions on every evangelical Christian. But you don’t. And that makes you a bigot.
And Red, you’re just a fucking idiot.
A distinction I think is that, in your brother-in-laws case, the reason they jumped him cannot be logically tied to their being black, certainly not in any sort of cause-effect relationship that would pass water. On the other hand, and I say this as a christian, too many religious people actively use their religion as a tool to persecute others, as a reason to attack others as being less than them, and as a raison-detre for getting their way and imposing their will on others, and it seems that the more fundamentalist and fervent someone becomes, the more leave they take of common sense. I’ve asked questions about like global warming and gotten answers like “well I think it will all be alright once Jesus comes back, so we don’t need to worry about that.” They have taken leave of their capacity for critical and rational thought, leaving their fate in the hands of a father-figure they’ve never actually met. Instead you get idiots like this, who fight against homosexuality who use gay hookers, and who honestly believe it wont matter because Jesus loves them so much they don’t need to follow their own distorted interpretation of His will. Thats not prejudice, thats judice.
“And Red, you’re just a fucking idiot.”
Ha Ha! Good one Jay!! Tell me, what’s it like to live in a world where you just make shit up all the time?
A distinction I think is that, in your brother-in-laws case, the reason they jumped him cannot be logically tied to their being black, certainly not in any sort of cause-effect relationship that would pass water.
That’s irrelevant. Because they were black, he sees them all that way regardless of the fact that criminals amongst the black population are a minority within a minority.
On the other hand, and I say this as a christian, too many religious people actively use their religion as a tool to persecute others, as a reason to attack others as being less than them, and as a raison-detre for getting their way and imposing their will on others, and it seems that the more fundamentalist and fervent someone becomes, the more leave they take of common sense.
I’m not denying that. As an evangelical Christian myself, I have spoken out against the tactics and language used by organizations like The Family Research Council and Focus on The Family against homosexuals. It is a struggle, but fortunately, I have realized that probably more people agree with me than less.
I’ve asked questions about like global warming and gotten answers like “well I think it will all be alright once Jesus comes back, so we don’t need to worry about that.”
It’s interesting you wrote that as Haggard has been vocally urging Christians to be more involved in the fight against global warming. But I understand your point, and believe me, I have called people out when they’ve used the “It’s in God’s hands” excuse for not doing something.
The real problem I have with Oliver’s language is that he is doing the very same thing he claims to deplore. There are enough people who have said that blacks vote Democrat because they’re just rubes and they’re not on a whole, very bright. The DNC says all the right things, and they just follow. I have seen Oliver mock this mindset, so it seems rather hypocritical of him to denounce it on one hand, and they do the very same thing on the other.
Jay, I’ve got no problem with evangelicals. I’ve got a problem with evangelicals on the far right. While I may disagree with them on the occasional issue, people like TD Jakes, Joel Osteen and Rick Warren are preaching what is an essentially Christian view of the world. What people like Haggard, Dobson, Robertson and Falwell preach is pure and unadulterated hate and a dumbass-based view of science and culture. The people that follow them like blind sheep are idiots. I think black voters – all voters should regularly question the DNC and pay attention to their actions. They do, and they smack the Dems when they run astray. But the religious far right’s leaders could kick newborns in the chests and their followers would say Jesus intended it to be so.
That’s irrelevant. Because they were black, he sees them all that way regardless of the fact that criminals amongst the black population are a minority within a minority.
I disagree. See the thing is that these christian leaders thrive as anti-gay bigots and suchlike because they have the tacit support of the community that they actively suggest to the world they represent. Dobson, Falwell, Robertson, they thrive not just on the support of their throng of zealous fanboys and girls (yes, I’m intentionally being derogatory of people who voluntarily support a man who blames the gays for 9/11) but also on the tacit and unspoken endorsement of the people they say they represent who do not object. Now maybe you and I are among those number who are willing to object to them attempting to insinuate our support for them when we dont, so yay us. But too many people just look the other way and presume that they’re preachers, they say they’re turbo-christian, so they must know whats best, and I probably have to support them.
That is the distinction. Your brother bases his prejudice against blacks on the actions of those few that did attack him, in spite of the fact that the black community as a whole does not endorse such actions, either actively or tacitly. Christian leaders on the other hand, who try to legislate their warped interpretation of God’s will and christly love into outright hatred of people based on political affiliation, alternate religious belief, and what they elect to do recreationally with their penises, these people have vocal support as well as tacit support. Their actions and words impugn otherwise sane christians in a very direct way because not enough of them… not enough of us are willing to tell Falwell to his face what an utter tool he is. Their group allows them to be representatives, and so they are. The thugs who beat up your brother in law aren’t. That is the distinction
Also, our esteemed host wasn’t making a generalization about all christians or all evangelicals, he specifically said “the religious far right”, which I believe is referring more directly to the FRC and FotF people that you yourself say you speak out against. Not just the religious, see, but the people who feign religion in order to gain political influence. And they are more numerous than they deserve to be. This isnt to say that its impossible to name a sane religious person with political aspirations, but it is to say that for every one you name I can hit back with five wacko-loons.
Oliver, thanks. However, it just seems your language doesn’t seem to convey that viewpoint. Remember, many people (like Rick Warren for instance) believe in the same biblical principles that Falwell or Dobson believe.
To be honest, I wasn’t surprised. Not that I knew anything beforehand, but I do know that almost all people are not able to live up the moral standards they profess to believe.
In addition (and one of the main problems I have with people like Dobson and such) this illustrates the silliness of Christians who campaign on a platform of moral authority. Morality is based very much on laws, and as such is not equipped to deal with things like sin.
And Rex, my example was much simpler than you’re making it out to be. Simply put, I was merely saying that casting aspersions on an entire group of people based on the actions of a few is wrong.
As for the “religious far right”, I am probably included in that group based on my beliefs. I think homosexuality is a sin and I don’t support gay marriage. At the same time however, I don’t concur with the language and the politics espoused by people like Dobson and Haggard. And while my evidence is anecdotal, there are many people I know who feel the same way.
As far as I am concerned the modern evangelical movement (not so much the people within, but the leadership and the drift of the movement) sold out eternal values for political power, public opinion and a one-sided moral agenda.
We don’t know his conscious or unconscious intentions, nor do we know what he intended 5 years ago or what he might have intended 10 years from now.
So, the story is moot.
Right, Dugger?
And Rex, my example was much simpler than you’re making it out to be. Simply put, I was merely saying that casting aspersions on an entire group of people based on the actions of a few is wrong.
Well, agreed as far as you go, but the difference is we’re actually talking about actions of the group really in terms of explicit and implicit support of the “leaders” of christianity today. Black thugs dont claim to have the support of the community ad the community does not endorse them, so the kind of prejudicial hatred of blacks based on the actions of the few in that instance is fundamentally baseless. I dont agree with hatred auto-aimed at christians for Falwell’s stupid comments and the like, but people who think he’s right and support him, even the ones who dont but refuse to challenge him, thinking he must be right somehow, frankly they are deserving of no small part of scorn for enabling him and his ilk of prosteletizing prostitutes to do the damage they do so well.
As far as I am concerned the modern evangelical movement (not so much the people within, but the leadership and the drift of the movement) sold out eternal values for political power, public opinion and a one-sided moral agenda.
Amen, brother.
Say it Ollie “Senator Steele, Senator Steele, Senator Steele….”
Haggard’s accuser fails lie detector
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4597552
william | Nov 3, 2006 1:17:35 PM
“Haggard’s accuser fails lie detector
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4597552“
william, the crux of the issue is credibility. For example, after months and months and months and months of denial and disdainful responses, when The Decider acknowledged secret foreign prisons, he continued to throw away what little credibility and authority he and the Republicans cling to.
Which is why they won’t be able to sit comfortably on any padded chair after Tuesday.
There’s a reason lie detectors aren’t allowed in court, you know–they don’t do a very good job of proving anything.
The man resigned and admitted to some indiscretions. He’s by no means an innocent in all this.
Jay, I don’t have a problem with their beliefs – at a very basic level I happen to agree a lot with the basic black and white view of the world seen in Christianity. What I do care about is people who which to impose their social agenda on us. I’m basically a libertarian on that matter (be against gay marriage all you want, but you’ve got no right to restrict people’s rights because it makes you feel squeamish).
You know how the con bloggers are always asking why won’t moderate Muslims condemn the extremists? It’s kind of like that. There are no significant voices on the evangelical right who even remotely condemn the loud voices.
I’m basically a libertarian on that matter (be against gay marriage all you want, but you’ve got no right to restrict people’s rights because it makes you feel squeamish).
Well, marriage is not a right. But that’s for another debate.
You know how the con bloggers are always asking why won’t moderate Muslims condemn the extremists? It’s kind of like that. There are no significant voices on the evangelical right who even remotely condemn the loud voices.
Well, first of all that’s two different sets of extremes. Extremist Muslims are murdering people and hoping to take as many with them as they can.
As for condemnation of the loud voices, I think you’re mistaken. But that goes back to a media issue. Why would the mainstream media want to give any time to evangelicals that denounce the kind of rhetoric espoused by some of others? Standing on its own makes for better ratings. But I also think there were loud voices of condemnation for example after Jerry Falwell made his remarks in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.
And Oliver, aren’t there a lot of people that want to impose a particular social agenda on others?
Jay | Nov 3, 2006 3:15:12 PM
“And Oliver, aren’t there a lot of people that want to impose a particular social agenda on others?”
Excellent point, Jay! Replace “social” with virtually any other word and you understand the Republican party strategy.
Actually jay, Marriage is one of the “basic civil rights of man” according to the U.S. Supreme Court in Loving v. Virginia.
Brif, I should have been more clear. Civil marriage is not a right.
This is fun. He can be a doper or be into sex with guys, but he won’t cop to both. Talk about the horns of a dilemma!
“..aren’t there a lot of people that want to impose a particular social agenda on others?” Yes, and as Oliver points out, when they are caught living a lie they should be “nailed to the wall for the hypocrites and crooks that they are.” The argument against Olivers post is a set of straw men.
Haggard’s accuser fails lie detector
Also, the tapes of Haggard ordering up some more crystal meth failed the lie detector. Also, Haggard failed the lie detector when he said he had seen Jones for 3 years for massages. Also, if you read the story, please ignore that the polygrapher himself doubted the results were accurate.
Better go back to making up shit about John Kerry–this ain’t flying.
1. Projecting hate is really just a form of self-exorcism.
or
2. We’re not perfect, just forgiven. So let’s get it onnnn, boys and girls! (But mostly boys.)
Either way, ya gotta love these wingnuts!
One important thing I want to point out about Haggard is one of the more moderate Evangelical leaders out there. Yes he’s rightwing on abortion and the gay, but he’s also said good things about the importance of antipoverty work and came out strongly against the Military Commissions Act. If he’s got a drug problem, I think we should recognize that it’s an illness and not shove it in his face.
Red, you’re a fucking idiot because you don’t believe in the omnipotent omnipresent invisible christianist deity. Jay said as much, and verily it shall be as he spake.
buma, stop being a dick, he said no such thing and you know it. Red, there’s archaeological evidence that christ did in fact exist 2000 years ago. Dont believe in god if you insist, but dont insist that others dont either. for crying out loud when I’m supposed to be on your side and I think youre both behaving like a couple damn children. get bent and grow up.
Good point Adam,
Except Ted’s “A staunch Republican”:
http://www.tedhaggard.com/denverPost.jsp
..but maybe of the David Kuo variety (except without the anti-administration book, personal integrity, being a closet gay, the drug illness, and all that..)
It’s because of people like this guy I quit going to church. I believe in god, but not your god, my god is peaceful, thoughtful, caring, and loving. My god does not believe in killing innocent people because of someone’s lies. I will pray for you and your kind.