The right was for stay the course before they were against it. Tools.
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Let me just save some people some time…Bill Clinton…
Stay the course? Sorry, never heard that.
Oh wait, yes, I have..
Reality, it’s not just for breakfast.
CUT & RUN!!!
Seriously, do Republicans not understand that when they talk into a microphone, it records what they say?
Idiots.
I love the smell of GOP desperation. Smells like… victory.
So is Edwards a tool, also? All the other Democratic senators that voted for war, who now are against it – tools?
And even if every Democrat and every Republican were for it, withdrawing on a fixed timtable is tantamount to surrender, and handing the terrorists an emboldening victory. You don’t gain the sympathy of extremist haters a victory. it only tells them you are “decadent”.You encourage them.
Edwards was wrong to vote for the war, and right to be against it now. But unlike the Republicans he isn’t saying he was always against the war. That’s just revisionist history. And if you think timetables “embolden” the enemy, you should tell that to the Bush administration who has just such an Iraqi timetable. What “emboldens” the enemy is invading and occupying the wrong country in response to a terror attack and completely screwing that up.
My level of amazement at these pig’s ability to lie is only exceeded by my amazement that people still believe them. Dugger?
You forgot ‘fixed’ timetable. Big difference. A non-specific timetable is sort of counter intuitive, but at least it isn’t surrender and a terrorist victory.
And actually, one can be for the war, for not surrendering (which is what the Democrats’ fixed timetable is), but also, of course, be against ’stay the course’ as many could interpret it (i.e., fight the war in a different manner).
Bottom line: setting up a specific withdrawal date while combat is ongoing equals surrender – regardless of who recommends it. And it will make the terrorism problem worse. Theres no good solution – but we must not surrender.
Remember that tip-jar idea I had? You owe us $4 so far.
Blahg Blah Blah Dugger. Bush lied about a whole slew of issues to get people behind his paranoid invasion. And no Democrat shares his responsibility for fucking it up so badly. If they had planned and executed and adapted, the occupation would have gone much better, we wouldn’t have 20,000 or so casualties, we’d be bringing home many of our soldiers, the list goes on.
And Dugger, they aren’t waiting for me to say the war isn’t going well before they put the mines out that kill our troops, they listen to you saying things are going well and prove you wrong. Stop enabling the terrorists.
“So is Edwards a tool, also? All the other Democratic senators that voted for war, who now are against it – tools?”
Dugwhore,
Yes, they are tools because they EVER voted for the war, not because they claim now that they never were for the war, which would be the equivalent to Bush’s “stay the course” flip-flop.
Do your logical inconsitencies not even matter to you? You seem not to learn from them. You never address them when you’re called out which is strange because normal people would admit they made an idiotic statement and apologize.
No lies documented at all re pres Bush. No proof/consensus that Bush has messed up the war – at all. Democrats voted for war and follow-onmoney to conduct the war – hence they share responsibility.
And I’ll bet you the Denocratic candidate, if elected, will not surrender in Iraq as progressives want. She/he might tell you what she/he thinks you want to hear (a loss for the US), but she/he won’t do it – once in power. You guys will get scr*wed, just as ol LBJ did progressives in the sixties.
Dugwhore,
I shouldn’t even do you the favor of giving you this link, because you should know this shit on your own, but here:
http://www.bushwatch.com/bushlies.htm
And for you to say that there’s no proof of his lying in the comments of the very post which deals with the most obvious lie yet is, well, words fail me.
I assume you’ll take into account all the cheney, rummy, rice lies as counting. If not, there’s enough just by bush.
Dugger and the other malkinslaves apparently believe that Bush himself believes that Bush was telling the truth when he said “stay the course”/”don’t stay the course.” I guess they just think he’s insane, and as long as he’s their kind of insane, they’re okay with it.
Also, Dugger, Bush lost Iraq. Not progressives. And you’re responsible for the rise in civilian deaths, Dugger. No matter how much you want to weasel out of it, the half-million dead Iraqis on your soul are an issue for you to take up with God, not liberals on blogs.
Stay the course, Dugger. You’ve been as succesful peddling your nonsense as Bush has been in Iraq.
Here we go again.
If this:
appears on the White House web site (thanks nihilist), that’s pretty well documented, isn’t it?
And answer this question, Dugger; Was that a true statement when Bush said that, or a false statement?
As you have been previously pwned before re this line of thinking, let’s recap it for you. Since we cannot “prove intent to deceive”, nor can we prove intent to be truthful either.
Not one documented truth by George Bush. Not one.
If the war was going well, Bush would be riding high and Dugger would be insisting republicans get all the credit. No WMDs, No Terrorist ties, and they wouldn’t matter. But Bush didn’t send enough troops, Bush didn’t plan for the occupation, Bush failed to adapt. Bush’s fault entirely. And now Republicans are pretending that there is a chance they will bring our troops home. More BS.
Cut and Run vs. Fail to Adapt.
You need a new record there Dugger, lies have been documented, you have failed to defend them in any way and I’m still waiting for that Magnum Opus of Claims the Bush Administration made about Iraq that turned out to be True.
Incidently, what did Dugger make of the claim Bush made that the administration policy was never “stay the course”. That’s a big whopper right there.
Dugger will now “cut & run” from this thread instead of answering simple quetions.
questions. sorry.
It’s simple: Dugger thinks Bush is a guy who believes he’s telling the truth. Rational observers can only conclude that they have both been driven insane by guilt.
Billmon has about 20 instances of Bush saying “stay the course” on the WH website. An honest person would admit that it was a propaganda slogan that the administration trotted out that turned out not to poll well. Too bad our president’s a murderous lunatic. It must be the visions of what will greet him in hell, right? That would keep me up, too.
“You’ve been as succesful peddling your nonsense as Bush has been in Iraq.’
So you mean I have convinced a preponderance of both parties on Iraq and I have twice won a major national election (post Iraq) to the most poweful office in the land. Thanks OW!
No, he means you are peddling nonsense.
Now answer the question.
cut & runner.
OT, Oliver did you see the article in Wired about the DDoS attack that shut you (and prety much all typepad sites) down last spring?
Hey, Debatumus Maximus (AKA Duggster) If you’re going to trot out that same old insane bullshit about no documented Bush lies, why not take it Over Here where you never finished showing me what an awesome debate master you are. You still haven’t responded to my last point, which was that your whole argument nullifies itself. (Not to mention that you seem to have totally ignored Duros’ and Midder’s questions.)
Otherwise, STFU about this “no Bush lies” bullshit.
Nobody cares about “proof of intent” as the standard, Dugger. It doesn’t meet the legal definition, not the historical, nor the personal standard to require god-like powers to see into someone’s mind.
By saying things that he clearly knows to be false, Bush is a liar.
Is that proof by Dugger’s insane, inhuman, standard, in which no one in history can be called a liar? Perhaps not. But the American people’s verdict on the man’s character is clear. Weasel all you like. It will change nothing.
Amusingly, Dugger and I agree that the more likely scenario is that Bush really does believe whatever’s convenient politically, making him an insane person, in addition to the worst modern president. Half a million dead Iraqis will do that to a mind, evidently.
nihilist,
Then the dictionary is insane bravo sierra? Do I get that right? And whenever I don’t repond to a post, that means you’re right. You’ve won the debate. Black is white. Night is day. Whatever fits yoiur mindset. Bush lied.
And, yes, absolutely no lies documented. Not a SINGLE one. Don’t you hate it. I mean you hate Bush so intently and yet you cannot prove a single thing against him. That must be frustrating. But don’t worry when Bush is gone you’ll just transitioning to hating somebody else. Thats the progressive way. I remember progressives hated LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Gingrich, etc. You’ll hate somebody else shortly.
Sometimes I think it must be wonderful to live in Dugger’s head.
Dugger, I documented one last time you made that claim. You had a chance to defend Bush then and you failed miserably. So that is a documented lie that you have seen. Bush is a liar.
Now get to work and make up that list of True Bush Iraq Claims.
Bush has fucked up Iraq. You know it is true. That is why you try to lamely share the blame with the democrats. Bush’s war. Bush’s blunder. Bush’s lies.
I am sure there is enough room in there for a family of 4 Nimrod, but the windows are tinted pink, the “Stay the Course” chanting coming from the speakers would get annoying quick, and the only thing to drink is Sugary Kool Aid.
Wow, Dugger. I think I need to apologize to you. You see, when I was harping on you about this “no documented Bush lies” bullshit, I figured you were just some run-of-the-mill quarter-wit Bush-licking neocon. I didn’t reazlize that you’re actually mentally ill. I feel kind of bad being all smarmy and sarcastic with someone who (despite being the greatest debater of all time) obviously isn’t quite right. So, my bad on all that.
Hey, here comes Chezwick. He’s grumbling something about wanting his cigarettes. I wonder what that’s all about.
“Medication time. Medication time.”
Ooh, gotta go.
How do you document intent?
How do you document intent?
Oh, Dr.G, Don’t you see that you’ve fallen under the spell of the Liberal media? If it weren’t for the record high Misery Index under Carter and the obvious slant of all writers in Hollywood, who have never even seen a dictionary, you’d understand that despite what all those Bush-Hate web sites tell you, the Decider is physically incapable of lying, seeing as he was born of a virgin and died on the cross for all of our sins. So if you really want to document some intent, you should take Slick Wille down to the precinct and get prints of his wiener, because there is some serious intent. Am I right?
The real question is, how does one win an argument with a madman? (Something I’m sure Laura Bush has asked herself a time or two.)
Fact 1: Bush is aware that he used to say “stay the course.”
Fact 2:Bush is also aware that he’s saying “I never said ’stay the course.’”
What other conclusion is there than that he’s lying? Insanity? Idiocy? I hope he is a liar, frankly. We’ll never know what Dugger thinks about it all, since he’s deluded himself into thinking that he’s scoring points for the cause with all this nonsense. In the meantime, Bush is a documented liar or worse.
Dugger is still waiting for that $30 million payout from his Nigerian contact.
“That must be frustrating.”
It’s more frustrating knowing that the president can’t be straight with the American people.
Bush has repeatedly said that we will “stay the course” in Iraq for three straight years. Now he’s saying that his policy was never “stay the course.”
And why? Because the President’s favorite phrase was no longer useful as propaganda.
I am less concerned about Bush’s most recent spate of lies than I am about the fact that the president is allowed to speak in meaningless generalities.
I would much rather hear straight, focused discussion about how we are going to take a country in the midst of civil war and make it a functioning multi-cultural democracy.
The most recent tactic of moving troops from the Sunni triangle into Baghdad seems to have done little but increase American casualties. Could we focus instead on whether Bush is in favor of “staying the course” in Baghdad and increasing the number of American casualties or do he and his generals have a fresh plan? Does he have a contingency plan if the Brits pull up stakes? What does he think of partition plans? How do we prevent southern Iraq from becoming a client state of Iran and Western Iraq, of Syria?
We really shouldn’t care about gotcha games and the efficacy of talking points. We should care about seeing either a coherent policy in Iraq or a hasty exit.
nihlist,
Your apology accepted. Don’t be too ashamed. I’m sure you don’t know any better. Many better than you have run aground on the Dugger shoals of logic.
Now go out and find somebody else to hate. Bush will be gone in awhile and you’ll need to pick McCain or Rudy or somebody else as the ‘real enemy’.
nihlist,
Your apology accepted. Don’t be too ashamed. I’m sure you don’t know any better. Many better than you have run aground on the Dugger shoals of logic.
Now go out and find somebody else to hate. Bush will be gone in awhile and you’ll need to pick McCain or Rudy or somebody else as the ‘real enemy’.
You don’t have shoals of logic, Dugger, you have an eroding cliff of delusion.
“And, yes, absolutely no lies documented.”
Amazing, even after he’s shown multiple lies. It’s pathological.
Dugwhore,
Why don’t you spend your precious time tell us how these many examples are not lies. We’re rapt.
MJB, eroding cliff of delusion pretty much sums up Dugger’s defenses.
Dugger,
From The American Heritage Dictionary:
Shoal – n. 1. A shallow place in a body of water.
Damn. I don’t know if I could have come up with a better description of your “logic” if I tried. In the vast sea of political discourse, your arguments are nothing if not the shallowest of areas near the shore (perhaps adjacent to The Cliffs Of Insanity.)
It’s educational, in a way, to observe the twisted musings of pure neocon-think. You repeat ad-nauseum your favorite talking point (”no documented Bush lies”) and once it’s thoroughly discredited, you regroup and… repeat the same talking point. Tell me, Duggster, how many more times do you have to repeat that line in order for it to become a fact? A couple hundred? A thousand? I’d just like to get a feel for how many more times I have to see it.
Now go out and find somebody else to hate.
I don’t hate the players, Dugger, I hate their game.
“And, yes, absolutely no lies documented.”
And yet you still absolutely refuse to answer my mothaf*ckin’ question! Or is your refutation so bereft of reality you can’t formulate a response?
And don’t give me that crap about Bush hate, either. I would ask the same question regardless of party. It goes not to politics, but character. Addicts lie. Period. Even in recovery, their first instinct is to lie and deceive.
This whole “bush hate” thing could easily be turned back on you anyway. What is it that compels you to continue your undying Bush Love and devotion to him?
Nihlist, You all get in trouble by using the word “lie” and stating it not as an opinion re Bush but fact. All you have to do is consult any dictionary and realize ‘lie’ requires some intent to deceive. Thats not me; thats the mean ol’ conservative, Bush-loving dictionary. The standard, unthinking leftist motif is to cite apparent disparities in Bush quotes and therefore conclude they are lies – as if, with Bush, whener there is an apparent disaprity, it must be a lie. Yet whenever I have EVER asked for the single best ‘proof of lie incident’, it always falls apart: no proof, no intent, no consideration of mistake, poor elocution, timing etc. Thre a rebillions of Bush-hate sites I get referred to where some bitter, drug addled (sorry) Bush hater has a laundry list of lies. None stand up in fair, rational discussions. So it all gets down to the fact that progressives have faith that Bush has lied and can cite apparent disparities in quotes as ‘proof’. Its enough for you; not me.
One more time;
Was that a true statement or a false sttement?
There is no trouble. Bush is a liar.
That example has all Dugger asks for, no veracity, no mispeaking, proper elocution, intent to deceive, no timing errors, no referring to Bush-Hate sites, no context errors, and no defense.
Actually, it’s from the white House web site.
And yet, he refuses to address it.
Cut & Run Dugger…
Yes, the White House web site; that veritable cornucopia of Bush Hate™ and left-wing bias.
Its enough for you; not me.
Whatever, Dugger. If that keeps you from biting down on the business end of a .45, then more power to you.
Its enough for you; not me.
So, again, Dugger, what would it take? As proof, I mean?
Stay the Course.
I never said Stay the Course.
That doesn’t seem deceptive to you?
A 13 word post generates 57 comments? Behold the power of concision. You rock, sir.
Dugwhore,
The definition of “lie” which you use rules out ANY way to prove a lie. However, we judge people as liars every day becuase we can objectively look at what likely known to the liar before he lied and come to the conclusion that, objectively, he is a liar. No need to go into his head, as it is impossible. I’m sure you thought clinton lied, now prove to me his actual intent. But you’re just relying on the surrounding facts to objectively show his lies. Had he not admitted to lying when he said “I have not had sexual relations”, we would have the identical problem of actual intent with him, also. But we didn’t need his admission to know he was lying. Bush wins in your eyes because he is more disciplined in his dishonesty.
Don’t buy it MJB. There are ways to prove a lie. A lie has to meet three criteria: the claim has to be false (or in some cases not known to be true), the liar has to know the claim is false (or unlikely to be true in some cases), and the liar has to convey the falsehood with the intent for someone or someones to believe it.
To Clarify:
“Dugger eats poop”. It is highly unlikely, I have every reason to believe it is not true, and if I made that claim intending for others to believe it, I would be lying.
duros,
Stick your ‘one more time’. You, not I, are asserting ‘lie’ re Pres Bush. You have to prove it – not I. “Lie” has a meaning. Take that meaning and prove ‘lie’. No one here, no one – you most certainly included – has come close. Not even close. I have an open offer to debate the topic rationally and reasonably with any one here. Haven’t had a taker yet. Wonder why. And you all are SO certain.
I guess that means I wasn’t lying when I said Dugger eats poop.
Bush is a liar.
And incidently, we can claim, even by Dugger’s funky definitions and first grade logic, that Bush is a liar every day of the week and twice on SundaY. We aren’t lying when we say it. We certainly have plenty of reason to believe it is true. It can’t be disproved. So why is he wasting everyone’s time.
I am not asserting a lie, Dugger, I am, and have been, asking you a question. Was that statement true or false? I have been trying ever so hard to debate you rationally adn reasonably, but you continue to cut & run from the discussion and refuse to answer the simplest of questions. True? or false?
You are correct on the face of it that I cannot “prove” by whatever yardstick you use that he is lying, but nor can you prove the truthfulness of his statement. As Nihilist pointed out, if we cannot prove intent to deceive, you cannot prove otherwise.
I have come close, Dugger, just the other day when I said that Bush may not be lying, but sure as hell ain’t telling the truth, you agreed with me.
Don’t get so defensive, man, I’m just trying to engage here.
You can’t prove anything by Dugger’s yardstick. But then he is a whacko. By reasonable standards lies can be proven.
Dugger will never explain why “proof” should requiremind reading. It would explode what appears to be his whole reason for waking up in the morning — defending Bush, and hating the liberals.
A majority of the country thinks Bush is a liar, now, Dugger. Wake up.
duros
So you wnat to address that statement outside the lie/no lie arena. Fine with me. The honest answer is that I’m not sure if its technically true or not. And, no offense, I doubt you or the 5 million hate-Bush sites calling it a lie know either. One reason: the difference (if any) between wiretap and the type of surveillance ‘eavesdropping’ Bush was speaking of. Secondly, was the context of Bush’s remarks conerning 100%domestic of foreign surveillance. And was there a larger context to Bush’s remarks that the snippet misses. And could Bush have been his typical ineloquent, misspeaking self?
Now an honest question for you. With all of this on the public record – the public record mind you- many, many times. With Bush knowing leftists hate him more than anything in human existence. With Bush supposedly clever enough to ‘trick’ Democratic senators into backing the war, why would he be so incredibly stupid as to ‘lie’ about it? Doesn’t make any sense.
“Bush knowing leftists hate him more than anything in human existence”
How does Bush “know” this, now?
Anyway, the lie at hand is the “stay the course” lie. Why are you so scared of it?
See, I knew you would have to qualify the statements. All these answers have to be on your terms. You can’t answer the question as it stands, it has to be conditional. Because these comments are a matter of public record, you yourself know the context of them. You know as well as I do, he was ttalking about domestic surveillance. He did use the word “wiretap”, so I don’t really think we need to split hairs there.
As for your question, I honestly don’t know how stupid the President is. Considering what he told Stephanopoulous, I’m thinking pretty stupid. Maybe he doesn’t remember what he tells people from one day to the next.
And it is useful to remember one crucial point: he is a recovering alcoholic and drug user. Addicts lie. Period.
Boy, we sure do have to go to some great lengths to give Bush the benefit of the doubt don’t we?
It’s abundantly clear from the facts that the Bush administraion cherry picked which bits of intelligence to hype and which bits to downplay all to convince the nation that it was facing a grave and gathering threat from Iraq. They did these things deliberately with the intention to distort the public perception of the Iraqi threat.
They downplayed the findings of UNESCO and the Iraqi Survey group. They dismissed the less alarmist findings of foreign intelligence services in France, Russia and Germany all while asserting again and again on national television that if we didn’t act soon we the next smoking gun might be a mushroom cloud.
All of which is to say that the Bush administration set out to shut down the kind of rational debate before the war that Dugger insists that we have now.
Dugger likes to repeat his mantra of not one lie proven. It helps him to forget that not one statement made by the Bush administration and its supporters about Iraq turned out to be true. Not one.
I happen to believe that Bush was lying when he spoke about the wiretaps requiring warrants. He knew that he had ordered the exact opposite of what he said was happening.
On the war I tend to believe his crimes are crimes of serious distortion and obfuscation. Maybe he didn’t technically lie, but he certainly intended to deceive.
Otherwise, you don’t repeatedly tell the American people that they may be facing a nuclear holocaust when there is ample evidence to suggest that no such threat exists. But that’s what Bush did anyway.
Damn, did I write UNESCO? I meant the IAEA.
And did I write “grave and gathering”? I meant “grave and growing.”
You need to make an actual defense there Dugger. You can’t alledge people may be taking the quote out of context without actually showing how it is being taken out of context. You speculate that Bush may be talking Domestic vs. International when his statement directly says ANY TIME, rendering your speculation moot.
“A wiretap requires a court order”. The definition of wiretap Bush may or may not be trying to use in a following statement is also moot. He authorized, and therefore had knowledge of, a program that engaged in wiretaps without court orders. The existence of that program is an established legal fact. It wiretaps, it doesn’t seek warrants, established legal facts.
Bush is therefore a liar.
And the lame ass, “his every word is recorded, why would he lie” just screams out your intellectual dishonesty.
Also, if you want to argue Bush was not intending to deceive, after it is established the statement is false and Bush knows it is false, YOU have to offer a plausible way in which his statement was not supposed to be believed. Such as: was he telling a joke? Was he delusional? Mentally incompetent? Professionally incompetent? We can rule out he was joking which would leave us with a man unfit for office, or a liar.
Duros
So much for the debate. You did not address my single question as to ‘why’ Bush would ‘lie’ about stuff on the public record. Didn’t touch it. Just whined and dodged. And that is what I get every time. If a rational, reaonable debate is called for, progressives can’t hack it. Just remember this next time I remind you that not a single lie has been documented. You tucked your tail between your legs and ran.
midder,
No I just made the defense. You are trapped by the allegation of ‘lie’. The issue is not whether the staement is or is not correct, it is much more specific. It is ‘lie’. The word progressive haters have chosen. And if it is so obvious, exactly why would Bush lie about public- records-matters knowing that five million leftist haters in the public arena could pick up on it in an instant? Thre are many alternative expanations and logically, ‘lie’ does not make sense.
Anybody care to address these points? Anybody able to address these points???
DUgger, An Island of Civility in an Ocean of Hate
Hey, Duggster,
I see from your last post that your defense of Bush’s lies has turned to “why would he lie?” A legitimate question, I suppose, for one to ponder. However, the problem with debating something like that is that you are asking about Bush’s intent. And we all know that the one thing in the universe that can never ever ever be proven is someone’s intent.
So while it’s nice to see that you’ve returned to posting on Oliver’s blog, your last line of argument is one that (by your own logic) can’t be argued. Nice try, though. We have some lovely parting gifts for you.
And as for this other bullshit: If a rational, reaonable debate is called for, progressives can’t hack it. And: You tucked your tail between your legs and ran.
Dugger, Dugger, Dugger. Have you forgotten that you still haven’t finished this debate? I certainly didn’t tuck my tail and run from it. You did. I don’t want to say that you’re a coward, but…
Dugger, An island of garbage in a river of intelligence.
-ND-
Dugger spends 50% of his time masturbating over how civil he is, and the other half dreaming up new names to call liberals. Needless to say, addressing Bush’s more basic lies, as in saying things he seems to clearly know are untrue — is far beyond Dugger’s moral abilities. That’s why he ignores, say, the central lie in this post.
Let’s see. We’ve established the statement was false. We’ve established that Bush knew it was false. The intent was for the audience to accept as true what Bush said. There are your three elements, lie.
Dugger. Gives a lot of maybe this and maybe thats without making a case for any of them. He then complains of people not having an honest debate. So which is it Dugger, are you too lazy to do your work, or just plain dishonest?
“That wasn’t Bush that said those things! Yeah, that’s it. Bush is really in a secret location and that was just an actor portraying Mr. Bush! That’s the ticket!” — Dugger “Tommy” Flanagan.
And for the FINALE!!! Dugger, Tommy Flanagan, whoever you are, he was not lying about things of public record! He made his statement about the US always getting warrants for wiretaps, wait for it, BEFORE his secret warrantless wiretap program was revealed to the public! OOPS. You lost again. Besides which it is easy and less damaging for politicians to lie about current events. People are paying attention then and that is when the damage has to be controlled on the front page. Later, when it is revealed the politician isn’t telling the truth, the public’s attention is somewhere else and you may get a little news blurb on page ZZ94. Also, supporters will always grab on to the lamest excuse and scream it loudly, over and over.
Bush is a liar. Now, how much credibility does he have left. Help him salvage it. Your president needs you Dugger!!! Put together that list of Iraq Claims that turned out to be true!
Nihilist, “intent” in the proof of whether Bush is lying or not is strictly limited to whether he intended to be believed or not. The motives of why he pursues this policy or that policy he is (alledgedly) lying about is irrelevant to whether what he is saying is a lie or not. He may even have good reason To lie. It doesn’t mean he isn’t lying.
“You did not address my single question as to ‘why’ Bush would ‘lie’ about stuff on the public record. Didn’t touch it.
Um, Actually I did. reposted here.
Also, when you said The issue is not whether the staement is or is not correct,
I asked you whether the statement was true or false. Not whether it was or was not correct. If you’re gonna parse language, so can I.
Midder has proven a documented lie. Nihilist has proven the fallacy of your logic.
Deal with it.
DUgger, An Island of Civility in an Ocean of Hate
Is that near the Shoals of Logic?
Is he describing himself as a thin veneer of civility over a vast seething pit of hate? That’s about right.
I’ll just repeat that Bush may not have technicallty lied but he and his administration practiced to deceive. The facts bear that out.
They wanted the American public to think that Iraq was a “grave and growing” danger when there were many authoritative sources out there saying the exact opposite.
Accordingly, the Bush administration itself found unreliable people like “curveball” to go on the record about things that weren’t true at all. They then leaked this “evidence” as top secret classified information to the New York Times.
The administration then used these “leaks” to inject, in response, apocalyptic imagery — “the smoking gun could be a mushroom cloud” — into the public debate to scare people.
They used fear to forestall the rational debate that Dugger now claims he wants to have.
Most egregiously, they then failed to plan for the post-invasion reconstruction which lead directly to the clusterfuck that we are now in.
History will not be kind to this administration.
In other words, using the common parlance, they lied.
Doesn’t Cheney to this day still cite crap from “curveball” as factual?
Sorry no lies proven. None. I gave you a chance at serious debate and you blew it. Remember this. You had the chance and you were not up to it.
Ok, dugger, whatever. I blew nothing. I was up to it. Lies have been proven, but you are not up to it.
Your ship of fools has run aground on the Shoals of Logic.
Sorry no lies proven. None. I gave you a chance at serious debate and you blew it. Remember this. You had the chance and you were not up to it.
Wow. The only person I can think of who is this delusional is… Wait a minute. Dick? Dick Cheney, is that you? I think you need to check the oxygen content of the air in your bunker. It seems to be impairing your already questionable reasoning skills.
Dugger is cutting and running and declaring victory. Classic Republican strategy.
-ND-
Awesome! Dugger falsely declared victory and ran away without addressing anyone’s points, after calling people names and congratulating himself for being civil! Truly a twist ending worthy of a David Fincher movie.
That’s it? “I’m gonna take my ball and go home.”???
Duros:
The Ship of Fools bids no adieus
Until the last wave ceases-O.
“Stay the course” never meant “use the same tactics over and over, even if they don’t work.” If you’re on a ship in a storm, “stay the course” doesn’t mean keep going in the same direction; it means adjust for the weather, and alter course accordingly, while keeping the same end destination.
“Stay the course” is possibly the worst description of our tactics since engaging in the occupation of post-Saddam Iraq. Our goals have never changed: a stable, capitalist, human-rights-friendly democracy. When the storm has blown us off course, we’ve adjusted. The surge is such an adjustment.
“Stay the course” is just words, poorly chosen for their apparent description of stasis and repetitiveness, but in context and excellent description.
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