Watching this man whine and fumble through his press conference I wonder: Is there a less capable American president in history than George W. Bush?
All of a sudden Warren G. Harding and Herbert Hoover look like freaking geniuses.
SEE WHAT I MEAN: Bush: Iraqis Are Willing To ‘Tolerate’ This ‘Level Of Violence’
Andrew Johnson.
The dude bungled Reconstruction so bad that he practically created this whole regional/cultural/red state-blue state divide thing we have in this country. Bush might be polarizing the country, but I’m not sure a President like Bush could even exist without Andrew Johnson.
Well, obviously if we can get used to the unimaginable horror of living in Los Angeles County …
tyfoc,
Concur with your Jimmy Carter assessment. The pompous fool gave us a misery index of 22.0%, after self righteously describing the 13.6% index under Ford as a disgrace. He is undoubtedly the worst president in history.
Now wait a second Dugger. Slow down there big boy. You’re being a little hasty.
History has not fully spoken yet on the Carter administration.
Afterall, if we’re leaving it up to furture generations to judge Bush on Iraq, I’d say you still have another 20 years to go before you can truly judge Carter.
I mean if you want to be fair.
I won’t defend President Carter as a good or great president (though I believe he’s been a phenomenal ex-president), but he did not have 3,000 Americans killed via terrorism on his watch, nor did he send an additional 2,500 soldiers to die on foreign soil for no reason.
No decision of Carter’s ever harmed U.S. interests the way Bush’s Iraq invasion has. Period.
though I believe he’s been a phenomenal ex-president
I’ve heard this statement so much that it has become cliche.
How has he been phenomenal?
No decision of Carter’s ever harmed U.S. interests the way Bush’s Iraq invasion has. Period.
Cmon Doc. It was Carter’s dithering that basically sowed the seeds for radical violent Islam. That fiasco with Iran was one of the worst foreign policy blunders in the history of the United States. He didn’t just harm US interests with his policies. They harmed worldwide interests.
Carter was a foreign policy disaster and a domestic policy disaster. The. Worst. Ever.
It would be rude to not point out that the “fiasco with Iran” goes back to our support of the Shah, who really, in fact, “sowed the seeds of radical Islam.”
Carter wasn’t great at Presidenting – too nice for his own good, that boy – but had he been a Republican you’d find some really really good ways to defend him. Go ahead and deny it but it’s true. If you’ll defend what Bush has done you’ll defend anything.
And call me pessimistic but I can’t see Bush getting the Nobel Prize for anything in the future.
And call me pessimistic but I can’t see Bush getting the Nobel Prize for anything in the future.
The award was rendered worthless the moment they gave it to a terrorist like Yasser Arafat.
No president has done more to help extremist Islam than George W. Bush. That is a simple and plain fact. The CIA knows it. The American people know it. The only people who don’t know it are you Bush worshippers.
And Carter was a p*ss poor speaker to boot. Not as bad as Bush or LBJ (’my feller muricans’), but bad. Also lets not forget Carter ineptitude with Desert One.
The worst president in US history. Can you even imagine a 22% misery index!
Um, kind of, yeah. I mean I’m no economist, but thats Inflation plus Unemployment, right? And historically neither number really quantifies the problems that both are meant to signify, for instance people who have been unployed for so long that they’re no longer considered unemployed, so the MI doesnt evaulate, as the name suggests, the percentage of people who are miserable in the United states for economic reasons, making it rather an arbitrary figure to evaluate his presidency by dont you think?
Sowing the seeds is one thing. For a plant to grow, you have to cultivate it.
Somebody care to tell me who trained the mujahideen, including current administration afterthought Osama bin Laden?
Also lets not forget Carter ineptitude with Desert One.
God, you make it sound like he was flying those helicopters himself.
If I was childish enough to think the Nobel Prize didn’t count because someone I don’t like was given it once, then I wouldn’t bring it up about Carter, because Henry Fucking Kissinger got it almost thirty years earlier. But I’m not that childish. So I will not.
I like Oliver’s statement that Jimmy’s a better ex-president than president.
Anyway, back to the original subject: I actually heard this speech on the radio, and couldn’t follow it for the life of me. Carter was weak, but he didn’t talk as incredible an amount of bollocks as W Bush.
You seem surprised. Everytime right-wingers bring Carter up, they bring up that thing in the desert with the helicopter. And they always talk about it as if he actually personally ordered them to forget to fill half the choppers up, and then either get lost in the middle of a sandstorm or get halfway there and crash.
Eagle Claw was not his fault just because he was President. He was not in charge of the operation itself. He was not flying the helicopters. He did not order the operation to fail.
And to cap it all off, Reagan’s October Surprise fucked him over one more time.
Uhh, Carter personally aborted the mssion, boys. Try again. Now you might agree with his decison and it was a tough one, but I sure as h*ll don’t see nayone cutting W any slack. Carter decided; hell ensued.
And there are other -strategic- Carter issues with the msiion.
Give it up. The man was the worst presdient in US history. he would not let the recuse force carry lethal weapons to fight the Iranians once they landed.
they had non-lethal anti-riot control weapons. Thanks, Jimmuh.
22% misery index. Carter himself said 13.6% was disgraceful.
He’s now a bitter, bitter, mean old man and still an obnoxious partisan.
Yeah, he’s a bitter old man who builds houses for the needy. You want bitter ex-presidents, ask George I, who left the public life to go count his money.
The fact that you hate Carter will never transform Bush into anything other than the worst President in 100 years. He is the best president Osama could have possibly hoped for.
“Carter decided; hell ensued.”
Hell? Eight soldiers died. Eight. Now Dugger, according to your own pontifications on Iraq, eight, no matter how noble their sacrifice, ain’t shit.
Now if you want us to condemn Carter over eight dead soldiers, well, you have nothing to say about Iraq anymore. Absolutely nothing.
“It was Carter’s dithering that basically sowed the seeds for radical violent Islam. ”
But not nearly as much as Reagan’s and BushI’s funding of those radicals.
“22% misery index. Carter himself said 13.6% was disgraceful.”
Dugwhore:
You seem to be saying that criticising the previous regime for not doing enough while actually making things worse in real time is the height of awfulness. Agreed.
“He’s now a bitter, bitter, mean old man and still an obnoxious partisan.”
Me detects a little projection at work.
Honestly, there have been worse presidents than Carter. He didn’t commit or endorse genocide, unlike Jackson. He didn’t turn away from the concept of peace, unlike Baines Johnson*. He didn’t die after a month, unlike Harrison. He didn’t…hell, I could go through almost the entirety of Nixon’s time in office. He didn’t even leave quite such a bad legacy as his immediate successor.
Jesus, it’s all or nothing with you guys. No-one’s saying he was very good at the job, but he wasn’t anything like the worst president you guys ever had in your entire damn history. God, you’re even extreme about extremism.
Oh, also, trying to pretend he’s a bitter, mean old man is absolutely pathetic. He’s aware of his own shortcomings while in office and continues to work for peace and so on. He’s a nice chap. That was his problem as President, and it’s his greatest advantage as an ex.
And when did being “partisan” become a bad thing? What’s the point of belonging to a political party if you’re not partisan?
yea great ex-president…
“Carter helps to kill
Venezuelan democracy By Gustavo Coronel”
http://www.venezuelatoday.net/Gustavo-Coronel/Jimmy-Carter-Center/Venezuela+referendum.html
Read it yourself, and there are pages more just like it…
No president has done more to help extremist Islam than George W. Bush. That is a simple and plain fact. The CIA knows it. The American people know it. The only people who don’t know it are you Bush worshippers.
And the only types to make such an asinine statement are those afflicted with Bush Derangement Syndrome.
Here’s to your healing!
It’s not just Americans, Jay. It’s the entire intelligence establishment. And everyone can see it as plain as the ass in which your head is buried — Bush’s idiotic policies have harmed our interests and promoted the cause of jihad far more effectively than al Qaeda ever could have done on their own.
Here’s how crazy the Bush Cultists are: either the intelligence establishment universally agrees invading Iraq has pumped up terrorism globally; OR you believe that the intelligence agencies, the state department, etc. all turned into a hotbed of Democratic politics and they’re working to undermine Dear Leader.
Needless to say, it’s the latter.
Wait a minute, Dugger is actually criticizing Carter for making a real-time decision in a debate about Bush being the worst president ever?
Wow. They don’t even inform Bush about real time crises, let alone let him come near to the decision making process. If that doesn’t win Bush the worst president ever award I don’t know what could.
The We Love Torture Trio hates Carter. Surprise, surprise.
“He’s now a bitter, bitter, mean old man and still an obnoxious partisan.”
Me detects a little projection at work.
One of your better posts frame (not true, but a subtle knife does more damage).
Dugger, frameone doesn’t hit the bottle before his keyboard. How does it feel to be sober for, what, 10 days?
So Oliver, this is the same group of intelligence analysts that told us there were oodles of WMD’s in Iraq, right? Same guys?
this is the same group of intelligence analysts that told us there were oodles of WMD’s in Iraq, right?
You seem to be confused, Peed’.
The “intelligence analysts” aren’t the ones who told us that. If you read the 2002 (I think) NIE–you know, the one that Mr. Bush relied on so much for his SOTU speech–you’ll see that “intelligence analysts” took a fairly cautious approach to the question of WMD’s and WMD-related-program-activities.
It was a different crowd who went yammering about “oodles of WMDs” and mushroom clouds and all.
“(not true, but a subtle knife does more damage).”
Oh geez, grandpa’s going on again …
Wait wait wait wait fucking wait. You do not get to use the lack of WMDs as leverage for anything, Pedro. You don’t get to do that.
sorry Nimrod, I didn’t realize that smarmy, officious brits were defining the discussion of american foreign policies…
Oh, silly me….they aren’t! We actually won that war a couple of hundred years ago…
Ahhh… So here we have Dugger’s latest obsession, the Misery Index. Ford’s was high, Carter’s was higher. Ergo, Carter was a worse President (and in fact, the worst ever, right Dugggggr?)
A couple points of note:
The highest Misery Index during Carter’s admin was (as Duuugger loves to point out) 21.98. The highest during Ford? 19.90. That means that under Carter, the Misery Index peaked at a whopping TEN PERCENT higher than the peak under Ford.
Monster. Utter monster.
Under Clinton, the Index dipped to a low of 5.74. Under GW Bush, the lowest was 6.74. So, by Dugger’s Supreme Debater Of All Time logic, Clinton was a way better President than Dugger’s Lord and Master, GW Bush.
In fact, Clinton was better than Reagan or Bush I, too. When you look at the Index, Clinton takes a back seat only to Truman and Eisenhower. Wow, third best President ever. That’s some high praise there, Dugger. I didn’t know you felt that way about him.
-ND-
Wait wait wait wait fucking wait. You do not get to use the lack of WMDs as leverage for anything, Pedro. You don’t get to do that.
Posted by: Nimrod Gently | Oct 12, 2006 11:25:54 AM
sorry Nimrod, I didn’t realize that smarmy, officious brits were defining the discussion of american foreign policies.
Once again, Ped, you miss the point. You have consistently of the opinion that WMDs do exist. Now you say they don’t?
I KNOW they existed, as do thousands of dead Kurds and Iranians. I BELIEVED they were in-country, just as John Kerry, Germany, France, Britain, Australia etc etc belived they were. However, our intelligence was either wrong, or they could not track where they went immediately before the war. So, I am now a bit more skeptical of what our intel folks tell us.
So weren’t the leftists the ones telling us (in hindsight of course) that the intel was all wrong? So why now do I have to believe this current report? We KNOW they were wrong in the past eh?
Is supporting His Deciderness really worth the enormous trouble you’re taking to justify it? How can you even follow your own logic?
Feel free to reply to this with an oblique misrepresentation and irrelevant sneering reference to my nationality.
So weren’t the leftists the ones telling us (in hindsight of course) that the intel was all wrong?
Still confused.
We were the ones telling you that the intelligence was being misused by an unelected cabal of radical ideologues choosing only the facts that supported their pre-determined outcomes.
The intelligence, for instance, that those high-strength aluminum tubes were NOT purchased as parts for centrifuges was probably quite accurate. However, the President (not the intelligence analysts) told us something contrary.
I KNOW they existed, as do thousands of dead Kurds and Iranians.
Not to be a stickler for detail or anything, but if they’re dead, they no longer exist, do they?
By the way, Iraq was at war with Iran at the time. With the blessing of the US.
“So, I am now a bit more skeptical of what our intel folks tell us.”
Pedro. much of the intelligence that turned out to be so woefully wrong was stovepiped through the system by Rumsfeld, Feith and Cheney’s Office of Special Plans. It was created in 2002 within the Pentagon specifically to come up with intelligence on Iraqi WMD. Most of its findings were touted through anonymous sources by Judith Miller in the pages of the New York Times. Almost all of its findings were dead wrong.
When you say that you don’t trust the intelligence community as much, you really mean that you don’t trust Rumsfeld and Cheney, the architects of the wrong intelligence.
Oooh…sorry paul…I forget you watch movies a lot, so real world scenarios are sort of challenging for you…
Let me make this a bit simpler or at least plumb the depths of your misunderstanding by asking a few questions:
Did the Cheney “cabal” control the intelligence agencies of other countries?
If yes, we can stop here, and I will direct you to some other fantasy web sites…
If no…why is it that every other major nation on this planet believed that Saddam had WMD’s? including the UN? Surely Germany, Britain, Australia, etc, etc could have set us straight right?
And how did we find out all the findings of the Specials Plans office were wrong? We invaded the f’ing country so we could look under every damn rock, cause there was no way of knowing otherwise.
You people truly live in a dreamland….
How was rehab?
nihilistic,
Yes Clinton gets credit for a good economy. Clinton was a much better President than Ford or Carter IMO. Ford was crummy pres, but his terrible MI doesn’t excuse Jimmuh’s worse MI and it was Jimmuh who pontifcated on an MI that high (Fords) disqualifying a person to be Pres.
Your prejudices don’t always fit.
“If no…why is it that every other major nation on this planet believed that Saddam had WMD’s?”
Why is it that no other major nation aside from the US and the UK was pushing for immediate invasion? Because only the US and UK were deliberately overhyping one side of the case for war while ignoring the doubts and questions that every other country also had and was considering in their thinking.
Remember how we never actually got the UN to actually sanctioin our invasion? Here’s why:
How many other countries were pushing the idea that Hussein could have a nuclear weapon in six months? Try none.
There was plenty of intelligence questioning the existence of Iraq’s programs. We had inspectors in place to determine which intelligence was correct and if Bush had given the inspectors the time to do their job, and not allowed Rumsfeld and Cheney to undermine their work, we could have found out what we know now without creating a massive clusterfuck from which their is now no good exit.
So take it back to the playground pedro. Your an idiot.
Oh hey pedro:
So how dumb to do you have to be to be a conservative? Pretty fucking dumb.
it was Jimmuh who pontifcated on an MI that high (Fords) disqualifying a person to be Pres.
And W slammed Clinton and Gore for not keeping gas prices down.
These things happen.
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