A victory for women, a loss for wackjob knuckledraggers.
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Offtopic, 252 of us read your blog via bloglines RSS reader.
For the past week or so, when I visit your feed, most of my screen is devoted to a blank image field that states “Image not available” Above that huge field it says “Oliver Willis Like Kryptonite to Stupid.”
It makes your feed very hard to read, and if you could take a look at it, I would appreciate it.
Note: no other images are displayed, I would have expected a) an image of you, b) an image of Superman, c) an image of Jessica Alba.
Yeah, I’ve been trying to figure out wtf it is. Rest assured, I’m looking
Well, I guess it’s a victory for the American women who arenot aborted by this, yes.
I just can’t believe it’s actually called “Plan B”.
Uh, that is a lousy product name…
But it’s still a victory for women, and men who are biting their nails!
A victory for ‘women”?
No.
A victory for women who support the concept.
Yes.
They don’t want to have any conception, Dugger.
You right wingers can’t have your own science. Plan B does not cause an abortion. It is basically the same as an IUD, if the woman is already pregnant it won’t help. Or to put it in persepctive if your view is that Plan B is causing abortions then you also need to ban IUDs for the same reason.
Here is a great line from the Dover Bitch responding to the JC Watts inanity on CNN about Plan B:
Yesterday, they said life begins with conception.
Today, they say life begins with intercourse.
Tomorrow, they will tell us life begins with dinner and a movie.
Well, hell, we should ban ovulation in general, then. Every egg lost every month is a life, right?
Sheesh.
I don’t care if it causes an abortion or not, contraception is a necessary thing to keep the population growth under control. I’m tired of the anti-contraception crowd pushing their religious hysteria on the world based on ancient dogma.
It’s just like immigration. Come to America as you please, until there are too many coming through, then we have to impose limits. Have kids as much as you want in biblical times, until the population hits 6 billion. Then we need proven methods to prevent pregnancy so that couples can decide when they’ll have children. The religious fanatics don’t want that. They want pregnancy to be in the dominion of God, not in the hands of (wo)man.
“I don’t care if it causes an abortion or not, contraception is a necessary thing to keep the population growth under control.”
Aggggh! But then the brown people will outbreed us real Americans!
Already done.
“Already done.”
Um, what?
Brown people outbreeding whitey has already been accomplished.
So you equate you “Real American” with being White. Nice.
And ofr your information, dipshit, according to the US Census 2000, 75 percent of the US population was white:
“Census 2000 showed that the United States population on April 1, 2000 was 281.4 million. Of the total, 216.9 million, or 77.1 percent, reported1 White. This number
includes 211.5 million
people, or 75.1 percent,
who reported only White in addition to 5.5 million people, or 1.9 percent, who reported White as well as one
or more other races.”
http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-4.pdf
Frameone, you’re the one who equated whites with “Real Americans,” those weren’t my words.
I don’t even care about your evidence or counterarguments anymore, and won’t respond to your provocations. You become completely dismissible when you address people like you address me and Dugger. Instead of debating in a resonable posture, you inevitably degenerate into name calling. I’d be mortally embarassed if I were a Democrat and you were one of our representatives.
By the way, if your incivility is representitave of the left’s views, then the Democrats have a long way to go to market themselves to independents and moderates. You, in particular, show such a high level of intolerance towards anyone who doesn’t share your philosophy 100%, it would drive away any potential independent convert. Your hysteria manifests itself with immature namecalling and baseless provocation.
I always understood that Democrats were the party of diversity, but if you’re any measure, evidentally that doesn’t extend to diversity of ideas and political philosophy.
In case you weren’t paying attention, I was the one who wrote the above article about Plan B, lauding its merits. I also voted for Gore and Kerry. I’m just not married to every issue of the Democratic platform.
I like a two-party system. It keeps the laws of checks and balances in place. I don’t know you, but it seems you would want to eradicate the Republican party so Democrats could have absolute control over government. Do you know what a one party system is called?
Steve, you didn’t deserve that particular flame. Don’t lump yourself in with dugger, he’s an idiot.
Understand, in other threads, when you recite RW Fox News talking points, even inadvertantly, you’re going to be called out on it. Some people are a little more direct about it.
I don’t think anyone here is trying to “market” to anyone. This is a discussion board, not a Young Republicans meeting. We don’t have any ulterior motives.
“Frameone, you’re the one who equated whites with “Real Americans,” those weren’t my words.”
Um, I was being sarcastic. The fact that you didn’t pick up on it tells me all I need to know about your ability to assess my commenting style.
And don’t even begin to think you understand what Dugger is all about. The man is straight up Fascist. Then again, giving rhetorical cover for idiots like Dugger and Pat Buchanan seems to be all that self-declared “centrists” such as yourself are good for and I don’t give a fuck who you voted for.
“I don’t know you, but it seems you would want to eradicate the Republican party so Democrats could have absolute control over government. Do you know what a one party system is called?”
Are you fucking brain damaged? Seriously. You’d have to be to write something like this.
Have you ever heard any democrat or liberal talk about a permanent Democratic majority? If you have I’d like to see the link. On the other hand, have heard the title of the most recent book by leading conservative commentator and radio personality, the perennial dipshit, Hugh Hewitt? It’s called “Painting the Map Red: The Fight to Create a Permanent Republican Majority”
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0895260026/002-7286924-9428032?v=glance&n=283155
If you want to know why I’m so aggressive with commenters such as yourself it’s because the Republicans have but made contempt for democracy their part platform yet you go on to suggest that it’s democrats who are somehow out to install a dictatorship. Until you get a cluse, go fuck yourself.
Oh and sorry for the typos in that last post. If you need any clarifications let me know, but in the meantime, I suggest you start with the last sentence and work backwards.
Hey Factcheck,
I consider myself a pretty even handed person, and clearly none of us agrees one hundred percent with everything a party offers, but there are going to be differences in opinion and there’s a civil way of debating, and there’s the standard “I’m emboldened because of the anonymity of the internet” way. I’m all for the first, but I don’t have time enough in my day to get into shouting matches with people who willfully distort other people’s words or simply tell them to fuck off because they don’t like what I have to say. It’s unproductive, immature and stupid. I also know its not representative of the Democrats. I never claimed to be absolutely non-partisan, so I don’t know where the notion of ‘neutrality’ ever came into play. I have conservative ideals, and I have liberal ideals. I appreciate your sentiments.
Frameone, you’re a real tough guy. I know people like you who are simply rank provocateurs. Regular comment debates are boring, so in the absence of legitimate argument you start name calling in hopes of riling me up. Your kind is all over the internet, but I’m not going to be drawn into a grammar school recess brawl. You’ll have to find someone else who’ll fall for that cheap crap because I’m here for serious debate, not to position myself as a target for some asshole who clearly misplaced his sedatives.
On the other hand, I’m happy to talk and debate with the rest of you, you seem to be passionate, thoughtful, and like a good fight, but in a respectful way.
“I’m here for serious debate ..”
Serious debate about what exactly? That brown people are outbreeding white people? Just what exactly are the serious points to be made there?
Or is it that liberals want to bannish the Republican party forever, when the fact of the matter is that conservatives from Karl Rove to Tom Delay to Rush Limbaugh to Hugh Hewitt have made it abundantly clear that their mission is to destroy the Democratic party by any means necessary? Did you know about Hewitt’s book before you spouted off? Have you ever heard to the K-Street project?
I’m as capable of civil debate as anybody here but I’ll admit that suffering the idiocy of morons is not one of my strong suits.
“I’m emboldened because of the anonymity of the internet”
Oh and as for this crack, you can read my humble contributions to your local weekly paper every Thursday, thank you very much.
http://www.laweekly.com/index.php?option=com_lawcontent&task=more_in_category&category=72&item_offset=3&Itemid=122
I don’t know you, so I won’t call you Lameone, or tell you to go fuck yourself because I disagree with some of your politics, but I can comfortably say based on what you’ve written here, that you’re a propogandizing asshole, and completely intolerant of other people’s views.
The problem is, my man, I don’t hate you, nor am I really bothered by you. I’m actually trying to give you some advice so you don’t come across like a crybaby.
From what I see, you’re ok living in a Democrat controlled country, but you retreat into a cage of madness and anger when Republicans are in office. You shouldn’t let yourself get that worked up over it, unless you have a personal stake. My immediate assumption is when guys like you throw continual fits because they can’t get their way, money is involved. I assume someone’s paying you or you’re an operative for some think tank.
There is really nothing this government or any other administration could do that would get me that pissed off. Maybe in an abstract way, but nothing that would get me frothing at the mouth. You, however, empower conservatives every time you let Republicans control your emotions. Basically, you’ve become a pawn to conservatives, because they love to watch liberals like you writhe in pain and curse the darkness. Guys like Dugger are laughing at you. I’m just feeling a mixture of anger and pity.
Instead of losing your composure with someone whom you perceive to be Republican, which I’m not, maintain a stiff upper lip and fight honorably. The name calling diminishes your point, so that, like right now, I’m not even addressing anything you said above, I’m just trying to get at the root of your hatred.
I’m saying this in all earnestness. I don’t know you, nor you me. I’ve got nothing personal against anyone except how they address me. If you disapprove what I say, fine, you’re free to attack my points, but ad hominum attacks discredits you.
You should actually take the time to read what I (and others) are writing instead of skimming through so you can formulate your next attack. If you want to have more credibility with moderates, you need to tone it down about 6,000 notches. You’re going to get much further and come across much more noteworthy and intelligent.
Me, I don’t like preaching to the choir, it’s boring. I welcome a diversity of thought, and would much prefer to talk to someone who’s views are different than my own, rather than scampering around to distill the one audience that will agree with everything I say.
So I’m wondering, why you are so threatened by political diversity? You’ve charged me with being some hardcore republican without even knowing who I am, I’ve at least accorded you enough respect to determine your politcs by the words you use, not extrapolating incorrect conclusions by what you didn’t say.
“There is really nothing this government or any other administration could do that would get me that pissed off.”
Not giving a fuck is hardly a defense for idiocy. And more and more so-called moderates strike as people who really have no idea what is going on.
To repeat, it is not your “political diversity” I get upset about. It is your ignorance about the issues you are opining on.
The fact is whites are still far and away the majority race in this country, some 75 percent of it. And yet according to you we need to be concerned that brown people are outbreeding whites. Why? Will America cease to be America when whites are the minority? That seems to be Pat Buchanan’s argument and near as I can tell you think there’s some reason to mull this racist shit over. If you live in Los Angeles and you think that mutlilingual stripmall signs are the beginning of the end of America you’re not a moderate. You’re a reactionary moron. Los Angeles is a great city because of its diversity and generation after generation of immigrant, illegal and legal has assimilated into our larger culture while retaining the flavor of their own. Your refusal to recognize the beauty of the cultural flux and flow that is Los Angeles is just sad.
At the same time, you accuse me, some guy commenting on a blog, with the crime of wanting to impose a dictatorship in America when, in fact, prominent Republicans and Conservatives are on record as favoring one party rule. Indeed, as I pointed out, Hewitt has written a book the need for a “permanent Republican majority.” You seem to have some kind of naive idea of what the contemporary conservative movement is. It has branded liberalism everything from a mental disorder to a fifth column ready destroy America from within. This is not extremist shit found in the comment sectiosn of the deepest darkest right wing hate blogs. It exists out in the open on the radio, in mainstream newspaper columns on cable news. I got news for you, calling it eliminationist rhetoric ain’t far off. In such an environment turning the other cheek is not an option. The fact that you think my strong reaction to this shit is a sign of “intolerance” would be laughable if it weren’t a sign of just how deeply ingrained the right wing propganda has become in this culture. I’m supposed to play nice with Dugger, a man who spent months, months!, arguing that Los Angeles County is more dangerous than Iraq despite all evidence to the contrary and he still believes it today. But calling him and idiot and a moron is bad because it might put off moderates? Fuck that. If you can’t see what’s going on in this country because, well, you just can’t get all that worked up about shit, well, more power to you. I’m sure e happy as a clam living under that permanent Republican majority.
First, the Plan B article was never about controlling population growth of brown people in America. It was about giving more control to women about reproductive rights. I made further comment that it wouldn’t hurt 3rd world countries to have adequate contraception because cultural and religious restrictions prohibit reasonable pregnancy planning. People, and it’s their right to do so, are free to have way more kids than they can provide for. Brand me a conservative on this one, but I believe in reproductive restraint if you can’t afford more kids. That would seem to make sense to me, but because of cultural restrictions people are taught that God will provide no matter how many kids they have. And I’m including every demographic in that one, just look at Andrea Yates.
You won’t get any argument from me that the Hannitys of the world want to have a one party system, but they don’t speak for me. I’m not part of their koolaid drinking crowd, and I’m perfectly aware of the intolerance the Right has spouted for the last six years. That’s why it is so confounding to me to hear a liberal talk with seemingly the same derision and anger. I’ve called them out on their intolerance as I would anybody who seems to be calling for “one nation, one party”. I don’t care about your history with Dugger or your fear we are in the grip of a widespread Republican conspiracy. You chose to pick a fight with me, someone that has no historical bone to pick with you, because I’ve only been on this site for two weeks. But, before even hearing my positions outside of a few posts, you jump all over my case because Dugger has hurt your feelings. Thanks for heaping all your baggage onto me.
I don’t know you from Adam, but all I know is what you’ve accused me of, and how you’ve distorted my words and called me, jeez, I dunno, at least six different obscenities in this very thread alone. Yet, I’m supposed to relate to you and your inferiority complex because people elected an administration -twice- that you personally oppose. If you don’t like democracy, I’m sure North Korea is looking for a spiffy, outspoken partisan.
Now, as long as the reactionary moron is calling the kettle black, my problem with Los Angeles is what I saw for my own eyes in the emergency room three weeks ago. It was overrun with people of a particular demographic. I guess my eyes are just lying to me when I see an emergency room bursting at the seams, unable to give adequate care to anybody because they have to save everybody with a cough, cold and nick. You think I’m making up the crushing burden of unchecked immigration? Do you live in LA? Have you bothered even to go by an ER to see for yourself?
No, of course not, because it might expose you to a reality you’re not prepared to accept. That’s why you have to paint moderates like me into fanatics. Your belief system can’t reconcile that someone might have a reasonable opposition to your overwhelming intelligence, and also not adhere to radical doctrine.
Nothing you’ve accused me of is correct. You don’t know me, you haven’t listened to a word I’ve said, you’ve kluged together your ridiculous opinion based on half-sentances and incorrect extrapolations. I know this because you are usually the first person to attack in a comment thread, then completely derail the conversaion to something that doesn’t even address the thread.
Finally, no, I think America is strong enough to live through a couple of conservative administrations. You must have a very low opinion of the consitution and the framers thereof if you seriously think eight years can cause permanent damage to our system. Why not have more faith in a system you are fighting so fervently to change?
Put it this way. I have every confidence there will be a Democrat for president, and control at least one house in the legislative branch. And when that happens, the balance will shift and wrongs will be undone and policies will be changed…like stem cell research. I’m not so stupid that I think Democrats are altruistic, but let’s grant they’ll change policy for the better.
But, by you waving your fist and believing that an eliminationist policy can actually work, you’re not filling anyone with confidence that the Democratic platform is strong and can handle adversity.
If that doesn’t happen, and more republicans get voted in, what will you do? Do you seriously think conservative talk hosts have that much influence over 200 million voters to cause a permanent Republica? Really?
I assume you like democracy, and that gives the power of election to the people. If you arrogantly believe those same people are too stupid to elect the right person, maybe America isn’t worth fighting so hard for, right?
Its fanatic partisans like you that drove me away from both parties, which is why I actually try to distill my information from a myriad of sources. I don’t look for publications that feed into my beliefs. I want to be challenged, and I don’t mind being challenged by guys like you as long as you do it in a respectful manner. Too much to ask?
“You chose to pick a fight with me …”
Actually I didn’t. I made a sarcastic joke by commenting in the style of Pat Buchanan and you responded with this: “Brown people outbreeding whitey has already been accomplished.”
You’ll note my pause for clarification — “Um what?” — before you wrote this comment because I was trying to figure out if you knew I was joking or not. The idiocy of your response pretty much speaks for itself.
Now I don’t give a shit what you think makes for sound reproductive policies but bringing race into on any level should be nothing less than suspect. Since I was specifically referring to America in my joke I went further to point out to you the fact that whites are still by far and away the majority race. But even if brown people or any other race was outbreeding whites, what’s your problem with that exactly? You never really spelled it out. Instead you did the race and class shuffle.
For your information, I have lived in Los Angeles for the last 20 years and in Southern California for the last 30. I’ll bet that’s longer than you.
Indeed, if you paid any attention to one of the links above you’d know that I write for the LA Weekly and have for the last 15 years.
http://www.laweekly.com/index.php?option=com_lawsearch&Itemid=301&searchword=Paul+Malcolm&searchphrase=exact§ion=&start_date=&end_date=&occurrence=author&ordering=newest&ordering2=desc&group=90
I went to ungrad at USC where I lived for four years in off campus housing in South Central. I watched the riot fires get closer from my roof top in 92 and drove to my internship at the Weekly the next morning through empty streets passed cars of armed men. I spent a month living in squats to write a cover story on homeless teens in Hollywood and spent four months on campus at Fairfax high school for a story on an experimental race relations program there. So I am well acquainted with the culture and politics
of Los Angeles. I am also well acquainted with several ERs in Los Angeles and I have never, once, walked out of one with anything but empathy for “the demographic” I saw there. And by demographic, do you mean poor people or just poor brown people?
Let me ask you, did you ask anyone at the ER why they were there or where they were from? Or did you just assume that because they weren’t speaking English that they had to be illegal and so abusing the system? Did you assume that none of them had health care? Did you? What do you call it when you make broad generalizations about people based on their race and their race alone?
I do “like democracy.” I like it very much which is why I don’t take to kindly when people, such as those leading the modern conservative movement, make subverting it part of their party platform. If you don’t think guys like Sean Hannity, Hugh Hewiit, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Medved, Michale Savage, Laura Ingram, Ann Coulter etc., etc. don’t have any influence on the general population you’re too fucking naive to even bother with.
And yes, it is too much to ask. I don’t have any respect for people who get their facts wrong and make snap judgements about people based on their race or class or whatever combination there of. I certainly don’t have any respect for people who see poor people in an ER and immediately get all huffy about hwo they don’t deserve to be there. That’s a real tolerant position you got there, Steve. If only I could learn to be so tolerant.
fucking link.
fucking link.
What’d link ever do to you?
Of course I’m making generalizations. I can’t interview everyone, especially with pancreatitis, doubled over in a corner. I have two eyes and two ears that work reasonably well, probably not as well as yours, but I didn’t need to stand in Arizona for 300,000 years to know the Grand Canyon was carved out by a river.
Deduction and inference are not evil, and when I look at the overwhelming demographic in an ER that is situated in the middle of Beverly Hills, I can come to reasonable conclusions. They aren’t from the neighborhood.
Or maybe they were. They may have been the richest non-English speaking people I’ve ever seen in tattered clothing, I dunno. Nor am I a doctor to really know who had an emergency and who didn’t.
BUT, what I can do is compare it to every other ER I’ve witnessed, and I can tell you the overcrowding situation is ghastly compared to any number of states I’ve lived in.
We can go round and round, deny our eyes and our ears, pretend like its a racist notion to point out the demographic makeup of an ER, but experience is undeniable. I may be a stupid racist, but I’m not deaf and blind. Maybe they all had prime health care, I dunno. I’m reasonable enough to assume a percentage did, and a percentage didn’t, but I am absolutely sure the ER can’t handle the workload, and somehow a hospital has to recoup their costs.
It cost my insurance company $16,000 for that brief 20 hour stay. Something is broken.
I feel for every single person in there, but here has to be an alternative solution or ERs will be unable to cope with the influx of non-paying people. Are you denying people use ERs as free clinics? Hell, I used and ER when I was 12 for a bad case of poison ivy, so I’m sure others are using it for non-emergency problems.
I got ‘huffy’ after four hours of waiting -doctor’s recommendation for expedient service in hand- because I was doubled over in pain, to which tests later showed I could have had a gall bladder blockage or apendicitis. In that four hours I could have had peritonitis, then THAT would have justified my huffines..only I’d be near death. Because it took so long, I had to be admitted overnight, and thank god it was only pancreatitis.
My point is, my doctor sent me over there under the presumption it was an emergency and I still got deferred four hours. You can call me crass after the fact, but you know what they say about hindsight.
And -i’m running out of breath now- I agreed with you that the Right is trying to subvert the masses, which begs the question Why aren’t the Democrats effective at getting their message out?
It’s war, dude. Fight them like you fight me. Guess what, you know why Ingram, Limbaugh, Coulter, Savage, Hannity, Elder, Rantel, O’Reilly and Levine succeeded? They learned to get media savvy like the Democrats used to be. The Republibots aren’t going to give up, they’re not going to hand back control of the country. They’re going to fight until the Dems are in the grave, don’t you know that? They want you dead. They want no abortion. They want no stem cell research. They want no sodomy. They want a cross in every living room. They want a lily White homogonized Mayberry. You think they’re just going to lay down? Dems have to get as tough as the Conservative Holes that have taken over talk radio. You’ve avowed it yourself. Instead of wimpering about the subversion of the masses, the Dems need to beat them with a tight strategy, better policies and effective use of the media. For crying out loud, there are more registered Democrats in the US, and most of the media is fairly sympathetic to the Left. If it doesn’t resonate with the people the Dems did something wrong! That’s Democracy!
You’re an idiot.
Very insightful comeback. I can see why you can only get published in a magazine predominantly read for escort services and strip clubs.
“Very insightful comeback.”
It’s pretty much all you deserve. You had to wait for treatment behind poor people in a Beverly Hills ER? Boo fucking hoo. Why, you say, these people didn’t even look like they belonged in the neighborhood? Why nerve of these people who spend all goddamn day cleaning Beverly Hills mansions thinking that they could seek medical care in a Beverly Hills ER. Why I never. You may be the biggest, whiniest ass I’ve yet to come across on this blog.
To finish my part in this ridiculous thread you wrote:
“No, of course not, because it might expose you to a reality you’re not prepared to accept.”
I’m well aware of the realities of immigration and poverty having lived in Southern California for the last 20 years. I am also well aware of the fact that every few years there’s always some bunch of clowns who want to blame all their own personal failures and fears on poor, brown people. It sounds to me, from your “harrowing” tale of having to wait for “life-saving” medical care behind “ingrates” with “coughs, colds and nicks” that you woke up to the harsh reality that Beverly Hills Boy isn’t the center of the fucking universe. Again, boo fucking hoo.