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	<title>Comments on: Why Won&#8217;t The Cons Leave People Alone</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/</link>
	<description>Like Kryptonite To Stupid</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Wasser</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42282</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Wasser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:00:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42282</guid>
		<description>CC&amp;R stands for &quot;Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions&quot;

But I get your point. Zoning laws are a better example of government restrictions, as are historical landmark designations, and ecological preservations.

But to get back on topic, I want outsiders out of my bedroom and hotel room, let &#039;em make a buck watching people, well, you know.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CC&#038;R stands for &#8220;Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions&#8221;</p>
<p>But I get your point. Zoning laws are a better example of government restrictions, as are historical landmark designations, and ecological preservations.</p>
<p>But to get back on topic, I want outsiders out of my bedroom and hotel room, let &#8216;em make a buck watching people, well, you know.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Roche</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42281</link>
		<dc:creator>Roche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42281</guid>
		<description>To paraphrase Kang and Kodos:

&quot;Pornography for some, miniature crucifixes for others!&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To paraphrase Kang and Kodos:</p>
<p>&#8220;Pornography for some, miniature crucifixes for others!&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Quaker in a Basement</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42280</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaker in a Basement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42280</guid>
		<description>Put it this way, Steve:

If my wife and I decide to have just one child, that&#039;s an agreement.

If the government says I can have only one child, that&#039;s a restriction.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Put it this way, Steve:</p>
<p>If my wife and I decide to have just one child, that&#8217;s an agreement.</p>
<p>If the government says I can have only one child, that&#8217;s a restriction.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Quaker in a Basement</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42279</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaker in a Basement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42279</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;My point was, even though land ownership is a right, there are restrictions...pretty much a neutral statement.&lt;/em&gt;

And mine was that your example isn&#039;t a restriction imposed by an outside governing body, but one enforced by agreement among neighboring property owners.

Big difference.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>My point was, even though land ownership is a right, there are restrictions&#8230;pretty much a neutral statement.</em></p>
<p>And mine was that your example isn&#8217;t a restriction imposed by an outside governing body, but one enforced by agreement among neighboring property owners.</p>
<p>Big difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Wasser</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42278</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Wasser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42278</guid>
		<description>Not sure how my salient point was misconstrued. I never said CC&amp;Rs had anything to do with government, property rights or privacy laws. My point was, even though land ownership is a right, there are restrictions...pretty much a neutral statement.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure how my salient point was misconstrued. I never said CC&#038;Rs had anything to do with government, property rights or privacy laws. My point was, even though land ownership is a right, there are restrictions&#8230;pretty much a neutral statement.</p>
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		<title>By: moonbat monitor</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42277</link>
		<dc:creator>moonbat monitor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42277</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with OW on this one. These quacks need to get a life. How arrogant of them to try and dictate what people want to watch in their own private rooms!

Long live porn!!!!!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with OW on this one. These quacks need to get a life. How arrogant of them to try and dictate what people want to watch in their own private rooms!</p>
<p>Long live porn!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42276</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42276</guid>
		<description>I don’t see much merit in the FRC’s and CWA’s proposal. In the first place, it is legally strange: they are asking a federal agency to enforce local laws; normally such federal involvement would follow a local complaint about some entity from outside of the jurisdiction coming in and violating local ordinances.

Second, our obsenity laws have been completely bypassed by the internet. You can get anything from stuff milder than Playboy to things that would make even John Mark Karr puke, just with a few mouse-clicks (and, of course, a Visa card number!) The Supreme Court held a long time ago that the First Amendment does not protect obsenity, but never did come up with a realistic definition of obsenity, though they make several efforts. And where once the sheriff could close down the adult bookstore or the theater that was patronized by middle aged men in raincoats, there is simply no way to stop pornography (a word which will probably get this comment automatically dumped into the moderation queue) since Al Gore invented the internet.

See, I knew I could blame it on a liberal!

I’ve written a couple of times on my site about my difficulties with a basically libertarian orientation and the legalization of recreational drugs; my point of difficulty is that the harm that comes from drug abuse is so frequently not limited to the drug user, but is often visited on his children and society as well. Such collateral damage from pornography is a bit harder to see, and much harder to quantify.

By the way, Mr Willis, I found this particular article thanks to Gordo from &lt;a href=&quot;http://appletreeblog.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Appletree.&lt;/a&gt;  He&#039;s a liberal, but not a whacked out leftist, and he&#039;d be a good addition to your blogroll.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t see much merit in the FRC’s and CWA’s proposal. In the first place, it is legally strange: they are asking a federal agency to enforce local laws; normally such federal involvement would follow a local complaint about some entity from outside of the jurisdiction coming in and violating local ordinances.</p>
<p>Second, our obsenity laws have been completely bypassed by the internet. You can get anything from stuff milder than Playboy to things that would make even John Mark Karr puke, just with a few mouse-clicks (and, of course, a Visa card number!) The Supreme Court held a long time ago that the First Amendment does not protect obsenity, but never did come up with a realistic definition of obsenity, though they make several efforts. And where once the sheriff could close down the adult bookstore or the theater that was patronized by middle aged men in raincoats, there is simply no way to stop pornography (a word which will probably get this comment automatically dumped into the moderation queue) since Al Gore invented the internet.</p>
<p>See, I knew I could blame it on a liberal!</p>
<p>I’ve written a couple of times on my site about my difficulties with a basically libertarian orientation and the legalization of recreational drugs; my point of difficulty is that the harm that comes from drug abuse is so frequently not limited to the drug user, but is often visited on his children and society as well. Such collateral damage from pornography is a bit harder to see, and much harder to quantify.</p>
<p>By the way, Mr Willis, I found this particular article thanks to Gordo from <a href="http://appletreeblog.com/" rel="nofollow">Appletree.</a>  He&#8217;s a liberal, but not a whacked out leftist, and he&#8217;d be a good addition to your blogroll.</p>
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		<title>By: factcheck</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42275</link>
		<dc:creator>factcheck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42275</guid>
		<description>Steve, if you don&#039;t read the covenants, that&#039;s YOUR problem, not the problem of privacy laws or property rights or the US government.

And if your lawyer didn&#039;t present you with the rules before you entered into contract, you need to find a better lawyer.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, if you don&#8217;t read the covenants, that&#8217;s YOUR problem, not the problem of privacy laws or property rights or the US government.</p>
<p>And if your lawyer didn&#8217;t present you with the rules before you entered into contract, you need to find a better lawyer.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Wasser</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42274</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Wasser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 07:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42274</guid>
		<description>C&#039;mon. You pick a house you can afford, you enter into escrow. After your contingencies have passed and your money goes hard, they present you the CC&amp;Rs which you won&#039;t read anyway. My point really wasn&#039;t about fairness about CC&amp;Rs, it was more that even land ownership has restrictions, and that it doesn&#039;t trump other rights.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C&#8217;mon. You pick a house you can afford, you enter into escrow. After your contingencies have passed and your money goes hard, they present you the CC&#038;Rs which you won&#8217;t read anyway. My point really wasn&#8217;t about fairness about CC&#038;Rs, it was more that even land ownership has restrictions, and that it doesn&#8217;t trump other rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Quaker in a Basement</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42273</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaker in a Basement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 05:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42273</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;&quot;Its a rule you agree to nevertheless...not like you have a choice.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

You could choose to live somewhere else.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;Its a rule you agree to nevertheless&#8230;not like you have a choice.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>You could choose to live somewhere else.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Wasser</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42272</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Wasser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 04:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42272</guid>
		<description>Its a rule you agree to nevertheless...not like you have a choice.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its a rule you agree to nevertheless&#8230;not like you have a choice.</p>
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		<title>By: z adura</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42271</link>
		<dc:creator>z adura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 03:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42271</guid>
		<description>Porn in hotel rooms is a privacy issue as much as an obscenity issue and as new-breed conservative judges like Alito and company argue, privacy is not guaranteed in the Constitution.  Thus, Church groups and other do-gooders feel empowered to use the awesome police power of the state to their petty ends.  Somehow that passes for conservatism these days.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Porn in hotel rooms is a privacy issue as much as an obscenity issue and as new-breed conservative judges like Alito and company argue, privacy is not guaranteed in the Constitution.  Thus, Church groups and other do-gooders feel empowered to use the awesome police power of the state to their petty ends.  Somehow that passes for conservatism these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Quaker in a Basement</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42270</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaker in a Basement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 02:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42270</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;&quot;there a many rules that dictate what you can and can&#039;t do with your very own property. Look at gated communities and how paint nazis tell homeowners the exteriors of their homes must conform to their rules or they fined.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

Well, not a &quot;rule&quot; exactly. More like a contract the property owner signed at the time of purchase.

But don&#039;t let that get in the way of a good rant.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;there a many rules that dictate what you can and can&#8217;t do with your very own property. Look at gated communities and how paint nazis tell homeowners the exteriors of their homes must conform to their rules or they fined.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Well, not a &#8220;rule&#8221; exactly. More like a contract the property owner signed at the time of purchase.</p>
<p>But don&#8217;t let that get in the way of a good rant.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Wasser</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42269</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Wasser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 00:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42269</guid>
		<description>Property rights shouldn&#039;t be seen as a political issue lib or con. If that were the case, any land owner on this site would immediately hold conservative views...and I doubt that would happen.

It&#039;s more accurate to classify it as a &quot;me&quot; issue. Until you own land yourself, you may not care about what others do to other property, but I bet you&#039;ll start caring when someone exerts eminent domain and buys your house for under market value.

Now, I&#039;ve owned a few properties, and land rights aren&#039;t free and unfettered. There are zoning restrictions, usage restrictions, CC&amp;Rs...there a many rules that dictate what you can and can&#039;t do with your very own property. Look at gated communities and how paint nazis tell homeowners the exteriors of their homes must conform to their rules or they fined.

But I digress, I think this thread is about religious organizations wasting time controlling smut, which, of course, is a huge waste of time and money, but they&#039;re free to do it. And they&#039;re free to draw overwhelming contempt from guys like me who demand solid porn.

What&#039;s wierd, is I would assume a hotel that&#039;s wired would have a significant drop in porn money, as you can go right online and get it there.

And, I don&#039;t know, when we start ranking one right against another, we sort of diminish them all.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Property rights shouldn&#8217;t be seen as a political issue lib or con. If that were the case, any land owner on this site would immediately hold conservative views&#8230;and I doubt that would happen.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s more accurate to classify it as a &#8220;me&#8221; issue. Until you own land yourself, you may not care about what others do to other property, but I bet you&#8217;ll start caring when someone exerts eminent domain and buys your house for under market value.</p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;ve owned a few properties, and land rights aren&#8217;t free and unfettered. There are zoning restrictions, usage restrictions, CC&#038;Rs&#8230;there a many rules that dictate what you can and can&#8217;t do with your very own property. Look at gated communities and how paint nazis tell homeowners the exteriors of their homes must conform to their rules or they fined.</p>
<p>But I digress, I think this thread is about religious organizations wasting time controlling smut, which, of course, is a huge waste of time and money, but they&#8217;re free to do it. And they&#8217;re free to draw overwhelming contempt from guys like me who demand solid porn.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s wierd, is I would assume a hotel that&#8217;s wired would have a significant drop in porn money, as you can go right online and get it there.</p>
<p>And, I don&#8217;t know, when we start ranking one right against another, we sort of diminish them all.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42268</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42268</guid>
		<description>Hey, I think property rights are more important that porn in hotel rooms. But I think lots of things are more important than that, like torture, our failed Iraq war, you name it. The fact that you brought up &quot;the erosion of our property rights (through nonsense like wetlands&quot; was dictated by your own arbitary, silly, conservative concerns, hence your silly, arbitary complaint. What&#039;s next, ATF agents raiding your compound? Black UN helicopters contaminating your water supply with flouride? Who gives a shit?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I think property rights are more important that porn in hotel rooms. But I think lots of things are more important than that, like torture, our failed Iraq war, you name it. The fact that you brought up &#8220;the erosion of our property rights (through nonsense like wetlands&#8221; was dictated by your own arbitary, silly, conservative concerns, hence your silly, arbitary complaint. What&#8217;s next, ATF agents raiding your compound? Black UN helicopters contaminating your water supply with flouride? Who gives a shit?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Quaker in a Basement</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42267</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaker in a Basement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42267</guid>
		<description>Since you bring up property rights, Jay, shouldn&#039;t it be the right of the hotel &lt;em&gt;owners&lt;/em&gt; to decide what kinds of movies they&#039;ll offer to guests?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you bring up property rights, Jay, shouldn&#8217;t it be the right of the hotel <em>owners</em> to decide what kinds of movies they&#8217;ll offer to guests?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Quaker in a Basement</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42266</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaker in a Basement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42266</guid>
		<description>You know, if the FRC and CWA want to take out an ad urging people not to watch naughty movies, I have no problem.

It&#039;s only when they&#039;re trying to make, well, a federal case out of it that I get annoyed.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, if the FRC and CWA want to take out an ad urging people not to watch naughty movies, I have no problem.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s only when they&#8217;re trying to make, well, a federal case out of it that I get annoyed.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex Mundane</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42265</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex Mundane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42265</guid>
		<description>&quot;I just thought it was a PRIORITY over whether or not you&#039;re allowed to watch porn during a stay at the Sleep Inn.&quot;
You are, in fact, wrong. My right to privately do whatever I please (that is not criminal or harmful to anyone else) is infinately more important than my right to property. Would you like to know why? Because, arguably, I am not my Computer, but I am &lt;i&gt;what I do&lt;/i&gt; with it. Likewise I am not my hands, but I am how I use them. Existential perhaps, but my point is that they want to control not what I have, but how I am.
You say in a previous post that the only right that trumps property in your eyes is the right to live our own lives. That is the very thing that this issue is about. They want to threaten restriction to harmless materials to keep us from making private choices they disagree with.
Also, yes, environmentalists and the govt in general have done too much to screw with property rights (I recall a case of some people being forced out of their house through eminent domain to build a Mall, and another where the mall was never actually built, but the property bulldozed) but it is, in my opinion, and I think deep down in yours too, less important in a fundamental sense.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I just thought it was a PRIORITY over whether or not you&#8217;re allowed to watch porn during a stay at the Sleep Inn.&#8221;<br />
You are, in fact, wrong. My right to privately do whatever I please (that is not criminal or harmful to anyone else) is infinately more important than my right to property. Would you like to know why? Because, arguably, I am not my Computer, but I am <i>what I do</i> with it. Likewise I am not my hands, but I am how I use them. Existential perhaps, but my point is that they want to control not what I have, but how I am.<br />
You say in a previous post that the only right that trumps property in your eyes is the right to live our own lives. That is the very thing that this issue is about. They want to threaten restriction to harmless materials to keep us from making private choices they disagree with.<br />
Also, yes, environmentalists and the govt in general have done too much to screw with property rights (I recall a case of some people being forced out of their house through eminent domain to build a Mall, and another where the mall was never actually built, but the property bulldozed) but it is, in my opinion, and I think deep down in yours too, less important in a fundamental sense.</p>
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		<title>By: factcheck</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42264</link>
		<dc:creator>factcheck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42264</guid>
		<description>Too bad the the pResident didn&#039;t respect the property rights of the Mathes family when his cronies signed him on to help steal the land where the Ballpark in Arlington currently stands.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too bad the the pResident didn&#8217;t respect the property rights of the Mathes family when his cronies signed him on to help steal the land where the Ballpark in Arlington currently stands.</p>
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		<title>By: Nimrod Gently</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/08/23/why-wont-the-cons-leave-people-alone/#comment-42263</link>
		<dc:creator>Nimrod Gently</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=2588#comment-42263</guid>
		<description>Property rights by nature are a conservative issue, although obviously not as much as others.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Property rights by nature are a conservative issue, although obviously not as much as others.</p>
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